Another failed gated sump causing engine meltdown
03-08-2012, 03:15 PM
#161
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so you stole my trick l8 weber configured 3105 file because you aren't clever enough to configure your own
I had another engine in here from your area with an AFR chip in it that one is an exact copy of my trick 3105 steve4i chip apart from the boost map where you have pasted garbage in
I had another engine in here from your area with an AFR chip in it that one is an exact copy of my trick 3105 steve4i chip apart from the boost map where you have pasted garbage in
There is no such thing as an afr chip!!! afr were the company that worked alongside luke!! they tune jap crap and would never know how to use old mis and mot files!!!lol
the dd rr had afr printed at the top of the dyno sheets other than that there was no link!!
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 03:18 PM
#162
Its actually easy enough to guesstimate safe top line timing if its a simple spec though and wouldnt need anyone to risk a poor customers engine with testing which I would simply not do.
What turbo/CR/head ports/cams and injectors are we talking about on this engine, with what target AFR?
I could put up the sort of figures I would expect to see and you can then put up the real ones Danny.
03-08-2012, 03:23 PM
#163
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Yikes!!
This thread is becoming very nasty. Personal insults etc..
As a response to the initial post about a sump baffle/gate failing:
Unless I was forced by regulation to have a wet sump engine I would certainly use a well proven dry sump system.
That being said there are always failures associated with high performance race engines.
Many parts failures are not seen at first - until the failure is seen after xxx hrs (or minutes) of running.
Successful sump baffling can be made without moving parts (gates). I hate having potential failure areas in a $$$$$ engine.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers guys - less personal attacks please.
This thread is becoming very nasty. Personal insults etc..
As a response to the initial post about a sump baffle/gate failing:
Unless I was forced by regulation to have a wet sump engine I would certainly use a well proven dry sump system.
That being said there are always failures associated with high performance race engines.
Many parts failures are not seen at first - until the failure is seen after xxx hrs (or minutes) of running.
Successful sump baffling can be made without moving parts (gates). I hate having potential failure areas in a $$$$$ engine.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers guys - less personal attacks please.
03-08-2012, 03:25 PM
#164
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Sounds reasonably fair to put an end to these inter - tuner squabbles.
Its actually easy enough to guesstimate safe top line timing if its a simple spec though and wouldnt need anyone to risk a poor customers engine with testing which I would simply not do.
What turbo/CR/head ports/cams and injectors are we talking about on this engine, with what target AFR?
I could put up the sort of figures I would expect to see and you can then put up the real ones Danny.
Its actually easy enough to guesstimate safe top line timing if its a simple spec though and wouldnt need anyone to risk a poor customers engine with testing which I would simply not do.
What turbo/CR/head ports/cams and injectors are we talking about on this engine, with what target AFR?
I could put up the sort of figures I would expect to see and you can then put up the real ones Danny.
Ok thats fair and a better soloution..
The actual cr was not known but it was alot lower cr than 4is and the ignition map obviously represents this..
The fuel map is also totally different too
I will get all figs posted and as tony has the engine in bits he can confirm the actual spec it was..
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 03:29 PM
#165
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Yikes!!
This thread is becoming very nasty. Personal insults etc..
As a response to the initial post about a sump baffle/gate failing:
Unless I was forced by regulation to have a wet sump engine I would certainly use a well proven dry sump system.
That being said there are always failures associated with high performance race engines.
Many parts failures are not seen at first - until the failure is seen after xxx hrs (or minutes) of running.
Successful sump baffling can be made without moving parts (gates). I hate having potential failure areas in a $$$$$ engine.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers guys - less personal attacks please.
This thread is becoming very nasty. Personal insults etc..
As a response to the initial post about a sump baffle/gate failing:
Unless I was forced by regulation to have a wet sump engine I would certainly use a well proven dry sump system.
That being said there are always failures associated with high performance race engines.
Many parts failures are not seen at first - until the failure is seen after xxx hrs (or minutes) of running.
Successful sump baffling can be made without moving parts (gates). I hate having potential failure areas in a $$$$$ engine.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers guys - less personal attacks please.
03-08-2012, 03:31 PM
#167
no it wasn't
the det is caused by incorrect ignition angle at midrange high boost load points
instead of copying our turbosystems steve 4i chip and pasting in tables from old yb chips you should have left the trick ignition table and map alone
you have lost the 3.10 absolute pressure break line and replace it with a 2.82 absolute point
the line you lost contained lower ignition values
Whilst your over all afr values may have been correct at the time on the rollers and you may well have heard no det you could well have been mapping the tables at the wrong points due to the weber l8 being speed density
the det is caused by incorrect ignition angle at midrange high boost load points
instead of copying our turbosystems steve 4i chip and pasting in tables from old yb chips you should have left the trick ignition table and map alone
you have lost the 3.10 absolute pressure break line and replace it with a 2.82 absolute point
the line you lost contained lower ignition values
Whilst your over all afr values may have been correct at the time on the rollers and you may well have heard no det you could well have been mapping the tables at the wrong points due to the weber l8 being speed density
Stu already has your 2.82 bar absolute ignition pressure line
surely it is for you to explain why at any pressure above 2.87 bar absolute why the ignition line you wrote doesn't alter
if you thing 14.00 degrees of advance at 45000rpm is fine at 3.4 bar absolute on a yb on pump fuel please explain your thinking
the map point below is 14.25 degrees the point above is 13.5 degrees
03-08-2012, 03:56 PM
#171
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can you confirm reg details as then i can confirm boost pressure car was set too etc,also please confirm engine spec so stu can see what numbers are valid..
cheers danny
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 04:02 PM
#172
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If you can imagine there being no side walls with the holse but big wings?
Then the oil could freely move side to side and the strainer could get dry causing issues??
But looks like a good idea in all fairness and obviously works..
On a road car id deffo just do this in the future..
cheers danny
Then the oil could freely move side to side and the strainer could get dry causing issues??
But looks like a good idea in all fairness and obviously works..
On a road car id deffo just do this in the future..
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 04:05 PM
#173
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Yeah i fully see that now!!lol
But as i explained id never seen your version before so didnt know!
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 04:28 PM
#174
PassionFord Post Whore!!
this is why it detted
Stu already has your 2.82 bar absolute ignition pressure line
surely it is for you to explain why at any pressure above 2.87 bar absolute why the ignition line you wrote doesn't alter
if you thing 14.00 degrees of advance at 45000rpm is fine at 3.4 bar absolute on a yb on pump fuel please explain your thinking
the map point below is 14.25 degrees the point above is 13.5 degrees
Stu already has your 2.82 bar absolute ignition pressure line
surely it is for you to explain why at any pressure above 2.87 bar absolute why the ignition line you wrote doesn't alter
if you thing 14.00 degrees of advance at 45000rpm is fine at 3.4 bar absolute on a yb on pump fuel please explain your thinking
the map point below is 14.25 degrees the point above is 13.5 degrees
03-08-2012, 05:00 PM
#175
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lol..what he is trying to say is that the car was running 2.4 bar of boost but the top scale was only 1.87 bar..
It isnt as clear cut as that as even if the car did see 2.4 bar (which it didnt)and was only very brief it wont matter as long as there isnt det at that point..
He is even going on about duty cycle on the injectors but unless he has that actual engine running infront of him he cant tell what duty cycle they are running!!
Stu can happily give some figures here and there if he just knew more details on spec but tony wont tell us..
Ive asked moonstone for his reg details because i can then get afrs and boost graphs from dd rr pc..
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 05:05 PM
#176
lol..what he is trying to say is that the car was running 2.4 bar of boost but the top scale was only 1.87 bar..
It isnt as clear cut as that as even if the car did see 2.4 bar (which it didnt)and was only very brief it wont matter as long as there isnt det at that point..
It isnt as clear cut as that as even if the car did see 2.4 bar (which it didnt)and was only very brief it wont matter as long as there isnt det at that point..
It doesnt matter if the map for 2.4 bar isnt present and the ECU just uses the 1.87 bar figures because its just down to the customer to now use 2.4 bar for too long so the det doesnt kill it?
He is even going on about duty cycle on the injectors but unless he has that actual engine running infront of him he cant tell what duty cycle they are running!!
03-08-2012, 05:12 PM
#177
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Jesus christ, did I just read that right?
It doesnt matter if the map for 2.4 bar isnt present and the ECU just uses the 1.87 bar figures because its just down to the customer to now use 2.4 bar for too long so the det doesnt kill it
Err, he can work duty cycle out with the map in front of him surely?
It doesnt matter if the map for 2.4 bar isnt present and the ECU just uses the 1.87 bar figures because its just down to the customer to now use 2.4 bar for too long so the det doesnt kill it
Err, he can work duty cycle out with the map in front of him surely?
Also on a webber ecu and with a 3 bar map sensor the most the absolute pressure can be is 3.133 so anyone running over 2.1 bar of boost is of scale anyway,alot of people run more boost and all the way through the rev range
If you dont know what you can and cant read on the mis mot software chip maybe you shouldnt comment..
It doesnt tell you injector duty it just tells you what the injector wants at said point..
Think about it..steve drove this car about a bit before the rr day if the car was as far out as what tony is making out he wouldnt of got back to kent from horsham as it would of been melted!!
cheers danny
Last edited by 750hp escos; 03-08-2012 at 05:17 PM.
03-08-2012, 05:30 PM
#178
indeed I did why would I need the car when it is the ecu map that actually dictates the injector duty cycle
and considering it is my map that EP have copied and try to alter I can tell you every single address point they have changed
and considering it is my map that EP have copied and try to alter I can tell you every single address point they have changed
Last edited by Turbosystems; 03-08-2012 at 05:33 PM.
03-08-2012, 05:37 PM
#179
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The issue here is, will 14 degree ignition at 4.5 rpm cause det on the engine spec of the day??simple??
I notice that tony still hasnt put spec up of engine that he has there in front of him..
tony needs to put up engine spec and i now have reg details and once austec is open tomo will post up afr and boost graphs..
Then once all things are out in the open stu can tell all in his own opinion what he thinks
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 05:48 PM
#180
Danny I have given you the igntion values in engineering terms and the maximum injector duty cycle for the key load sites that have caused the det
The fact you are unable to do this and your mapping software can't doesn't mean we can't
moonstones det was not caused by his fuel pressure reg pipe blowing off
none of the other cars who had this problem detted only the one you mapped
why would you map a car to a pressure point of 1.87 bar and set it up to run over 2 bar of boost
the correct pressure points were already configured in my map that you copied
You donot have loads of base files the same as this one that is the reason you copied mine and used it on moonstones car
there are very few maps out there for l8 weber that have the configuration to run this size injector
The minimum injector duty cycle of weber files does not go below 1.75m/s no matter what you alter in the fuel map thsi requires specialist software knowledge to locate these areas within the config files
I remember you posting that you can read Stus encrypted chips you tried to alter stu's file that was in moonstones and it wouldn't start this is why you stole my work
The fact you are unable to do this and your mapping software can't doesn't mean we can't
moonstones det was not caused by his fuel pressure reg pipe blowing off
none of the other cars who had this problem detted only the one you mapped
why would you map a car to a pressure point of 1.87 bar and set it up to run over 2 bar of boost
the correct pressure points were already configured in my map that you copied
You donot have loads of base files the same as this one that is the reason you copied mine and used it on moonstones car
there are very few maps out there for l8 weber that have the configuration to run this size injector
The minimum injector duty cycle of weber files does not go below 1.75m/s no matter what you alter in the fuel map thsi requires specialist software knowledge to locate these areas within the config files
I remember you posting that you can read Stus encrypted chips you tried to alter stu's file that was in moonstones and it wouldn't start this is why you stole my work
03-08-2012, 05:55 PM
#181
The issue here is, will 14 degree ignition at 4.5 rpm cause det on the engine spec of the day??simple??
I notice that tony still hasnt put spec up of engine that he has there in front of him..
tony needs to put up engine spec and i now have reg details and once austec is open tomo will post up afr and boost graphs..
Then once all things are out in the open stu can tell all in his own opinion what he thinks
cheers danny
I notice that tony still hasnt put spec up of engine that he has there in front of him..
tony needs to put up engine spec and i now have reg details and once austec is open tomo will post up afr and boost graphs..
Then once all things are out in the open stu can tell all in his own opinion what he thinks
cheers danny
so you think that at 1.52 bar of boost and 4500 rpm the ignition timing should be 14.75 degrees and at anything above 1.87 bar it will be fine at 14.25 that is a retard difference of 0.5 degrees for a potential pressure difference of 1 bar
shall we move on to the boost map which contains very few values off FF and and quite a few 00
I'll help you out here for the safety of future customers of yours and give you a mapping tip maxmium power for minimum advance
Last edited by Turbosystems; 03-08-2012 at 06:03 PM.
03-08-2012, 06:15 PM
#182
no it wasn't
the det is caused by incorrect ignition angle at midrange high boost load points
instead of copying our turbosystems steve 4i chip and pasting in tables from old yb chips you should have left the trick ignition table and map alone
you have lost the 3.10 absolute pressure break line and replace it with a 2.82 absolute point
the line you lost contained lower ignition values
Whilst your over all afr values may have been correct at the time on the rollers and you may well have heard no det you could well have been mapping the tables at the wrong points due to the weber l8 being speed density
the det is caused by incorrect ignition angle at midrange high boost load points
instead of copying our turbosystems steve 4i chip and pasting in tables from old yb chips you should have left the trick ignition table and map alone
you have lost the 3.10 absolute pressure break line and replace it with a 2.82 absolute point
the line you lost contained lower ignition values
Whilst your over all afr values may have been correct at the time on the rollers and you may well have heard no det you could well have been mapping the tables at the wrong points due to the weber l8 being speed density
To the 3 nerds who ain't got a clue what you are taking about, can you put that into words a 6 year old can understand please
03-08-2012, 06:16 PM
#183
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Danny I have given you the igntion values in engineering terms and the maximum injector duty cycle for the key load sites that have caused the det
The fact you are unable to do this and your mapping software can't doesn't mean we can't
moonstones det was not caused by his fuel pressure reg pipe blowing off
none of the other cars who had this problem detted only the one you mapped
why would you map a car to a pressure point of 1.87 bar and set it up to run over 2 bar of boost
the correct pressure points were already configured in my map that you copied
You donot have loads of base files the same as this one that is the reason you copied mine and used it on moonstones car
there are very few maps out there for l8 weber that have the configuration to run this size injector
The minimum injector duty cycle of weber files does not go below 1.75m/s no matter what you alter in the fuel map thsi requires specialist software knowledge to locate these areas within the config files
I remember you posting that you can read Stus encrypted chips you tried to alter stu's file that was in moonstones and it wouldn't start this is why you stole my work
The fact you are unable to do this and your mapping software can't doesn't mean we can't
moonstones det was not caused by his fuel pressure reg pipe blowing off
none of the other cars who had this problem detted only the one you mapped
why would you map a car to a pressure point of 1.87 bar and set it up to run over 2 bar of boost
the correct pressure points were already configured in my map that you copied
You donot have loads of base files the same as this one that is the reason you copied mine and used it on moonstones car
there are very few maps out there for l8 weber that have the configuration to run this size injector
The minimum injector duty cycle of weber files does not go below 1.75m/s no matter what you alter in the fuel map thsi requires specialist software knowledge to locate these areas within the config files
I remember you posting that you can read Stus encrypted chips you tried to alter stu's file that was in moonstones and it wouldn't start this is why you stole my work
All waffle!!! just put up engine spec..your chip we kept a copy of went of the 10.1 lamda scale it was so rich!!! ..
I will take a snap shot on my iphone if you like of how many files i have..
I have loads and can also prove how many maps out there running over 2 bar of boost run a 1.87 abs file!!
just print up engine spec and then ask stu if 14 degree at 4.5k would det with the boost graph i print tomo!!!
Its simple!!..
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 06:23 PM
#184
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The other issues you have with the pasted ignition map you put in is that the ignition timing values at the pressure line below are also as near as dam it the same
so you think that at 1.52 bar of boost and 4500 rpm the ignition timing should be 14.75 degrees and at anything above 1.87 bar it will be fine at 14.25 that is a retard difference of 0.5 degrees for a potential pressure difference of 1 bar
shall we move on to the boost map which contains very few values off FF and and quite a few 00
I'll help you out here for the safety of future customers of yours and give you a mapping tip maxmium power for minimum advance
so you think that at 1.52 bar of boost and 4500 rpm the ignition timing should be 14.75 degrees and at anything above 1.87 bar it will be fine at 14.25 that is a retard difference of 0.5 degrees for a potential pressure difference of 1 bar
shall we move on to the boost map which contains very few values off FF and and quite a few 00
I'll help you out here for the safety of future customers of yours and give you a mapping tip maxmium power for minimum advance
you keep saying it is your map we stole and used and now you keep saying its totally different!!
Make your mind up??lol
Stop waffling about a map you never even seen or heard running and post engine spec..
Do you work in afr or fuel figs???
DO YOU KNOW WHAT 10.1 AFR IS?? OR .69 FUELING??
Its fucking rich!! well cossie4is went below that when we recorded and only had 380 hp..that was on the map you are ranting about and the one you charged him alot of money for!!!
You have a short memory!!! and you call that a trick map!!! lmfao!!
We spent an hour on 4is car and found over 20hp for him and 40lb ft
You told him you see over 400 hp out of the car when he picked it up from you..
We got more power straight away..we then copied your map as tbf it isnt a bad base map for an 83lber car and that is the only reason we kept it!!
cheers danny
03-08-2012, 06:37 PM
#187
Danny you asked why moanstones engine detted all I have done is tell you why
no need to get all wound up
you should have got luke to tweak my map you stole and not to have pasted old yb tables into it
even the fuel table you pasted in only has a max pressure break point of 1.87 bar of boost and 7010 rpm
the table you pasted over of mine had a pressure break points all the way up to 2.22 bar of boost and 8010 rpm which is clearly far more suitable for the engine configuration
no need to get all wound up
you should have got luke to tweak my map you stole and not to have pasted old yb tables into it
even the fuel table you pasted in only has a max pressure break point of 1.87 bar of boost and 7010 rpm
the table you pasted over of mine had a pressure break points all the way up to 2.22 bar of boost and 8010 rpm which is clearly far more suitable for the engine configuration
Last edited by Turbosystems; 03-08-2012 at 06:41 PM.
03-08-2012, 07:48 PM
#189
Not sure why you say you need the car to see inj dur though Danny, the ECU decides injector duration and the correct Pectel software tells you precisely what it will be at any given point and air temperature as long as you know how to use it, as Tony clearly does.
Dont know what this "mismot" software ius you use, but it doesnt sound good if you cant tell what the map is going to output to the engine?
Whats this about tweaking my map and it not starting? Thought you had solved that issue we argued about for days when I said you couldnt alter it, only copy it, and you swore blind you could, so I asked for proof and then everyone went quiet and the topic died after you and I spoke on the phone.
03-08-2012, 08:21 PM
#191
Just cause it doesnt display it for you in big fucking letters doesnt mean you cant work it out if you actually understand what the ECU does with the numbers.
Think about it..steve drove this car about a bit before the rr day if the car was as far out as what tony is making out he wouldnt of got back to kent from horsham as it would of been melted!!
Mate, judging by the work on Martins car, you are a really good painter, so why not stick to the painting and let other people who are crap at painting but good at mapping doing the mapping of cars?
03-08-2012, 08:30 PM
#193
stu the rpm points I have listed at 14 degrees are not at 7000 rpm top boost line they are at the mid range
hence me saying that is the reason for the detted engine
that and the fact that the 13m/s max injector duration is low for 500bhp lc t04e powered yb on 3105 siemens
hence me saying that is the reason for the detted engine
that and the fact that the 13m/s max injector duration is low for 500bhp lc t04e powered yb on 3105 siemens
Last edited by Turbosystems; 03-08-2012 at 08:33 PM.
03-08-2012, 09:05 PM
#195
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03-08-2012, 09:27 PM
#199
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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All this mapping lark goes well over my head all I know is that with recent unfortunate events my pistons are on the side in my workshop and they are mint not a mark on them wich I'm quite supprised about seeing as accidentally I did two laps of brands flat out making 40+psi of boost on a t04 so as far as I'm concerned tony gets my seal of approval !!!!
03-08-2012, 09:31 PM
#200
All this mapping lark goes well over my head all I know is that with recent unfortunate events my pistons are on the side in my workshop and they are mint not a mark on them wich I'm quite supprised about seeing as accidentally I did two laps of brands flat out making 40+psi of boost on a t04 so as far as I'm concerned tony gets my seal of approval !!!!
he gets my seal of approval too