saph4be

I have to ask why you would subject a car that's smoking to a rr run?

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

heres mine rr graph if any one is interested

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

you got a graph that shows your boost curve doug or should I say no boost curve

Moonstone Steve.

iTrader: (2)

At least mine made more power with 14degrees ignition shoved up its arse

anyway go start your own thread, I have Hi jacked Flannigan's and made it mine pmsl

Steve

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

i know but thats all i got all i know it was 28psi although looking at the torque its need bad quite close to the hp figure

any hows i am going to go back and sit in the under acheiver corner again

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

cheeky we are all friends here so share and share alike

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Doug you have an achievers award as yours is the only one still running
you may have only achieved 400bhp but that is 400 more than moanstone has

Moonstone Steve.

iTrader: (2)

And cossie4i lol, speaking of him where the fook is he..........polishing the fuck out the Mooney or searching the littlewoods catalogue for injectors

Steve

Moonstone Steve.

iTrader: (2)

I will share some ignition with you, 7 degrees each, yours might make more power then

Steve

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

roflol
he did offer to pay for the only set in existence on monthly terms with no interest and he moaned at the price and wanted discount too
I thought he was joking but he wasn't
My bank manager and I have this understanding I don't lend money and he doesn't fix cosworths
I sent a set to harvey today so I only have 4 left bidding starts at 295 be quick 4i

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

yay i am a achiever :cont ent: i have proved all those teachers wrong at last and its 416.1 tony

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

its ok i think stephen needs it more in his moonstone one

RickoG66

will my gated winged sump be ok ?

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

the 4i one aka tight ars never jokes about money you prob doing washing up hoovering,doing clothes washing etc as it was part of the deal for him to be allowed to buy the cossie

botters

iTrader: (2)

good effort! perfectley timed exhaust popping after the exit from the donut 10 out of 10 lol

crazycage

one word for EP cowboy's.

i remember seeing pic's of d4rst's ment to be 300+ cvh that they built after it went pop a few days after it left there workshop.

injectors siliconed into the inlet , fucking proper bodged inlet plenum, turbo welded to the manifold ect ect

It's Czech Mate

I remember that. Disgraceful!

RickoG66

CheeRS pal the popping & banging is because its running anti-lagbut yes it did bang just at the right time lol

Fullflush

Solid effort Ricko, nice car

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Wow, I thought after todays 500 mile round trip I did this topic would be done and dusted, but we just have another 5 pages of, well, nothing.

Benni

Do you agree that you can't just look at a map and say it is at fault without datalogging what break points are achievable on the road? I've found this whole thread interesting, and hope there's a definite outcome.

Sad bastard I know.

Benni

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

Me too amongst the drivel mate.

ozmk1cos

Im keen on the results from the autopsy. I have actually learnt something from this thread. Lets see whats next

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Im personaly hoping the thread goes back to being something to do with oil surge control.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

I was trying to keep this simple by just isolating it to a particular small area of the map file but it seems to have been steered to other areas like fuel
So we now have to bring in the far more complex fuel control points
The basic fuel table is speed density the pressure break points and rpm break points have also been altered drastically by basically having an old yb gpa t3 rally map of some description pasted in, this has resulted in the top pressure line being the same as the ignition table that being 1.87 bar of boost.
pasted into this are the fuel table values from their version of the 4i 390 bhp t38 chip
Now being a bit simple and correct me if I'm wrong here but one car made 390 bhp dd rollers and this one made 500 bhp dd rollers,one is a t38 hc engine and the latter is a t4 lc engine yet the injector durations are identical as are the full throttle multipliers
So the concerns here looking at the file configuration and fuel table values are the map pressure values are only scaled to 1.87 bar boost and the peak max injector duty cycle with all adders and multipliers are the same for a 390 bhp engine and a 490 bhp engine
the original file that was hijacked was configured to 2.22 bar and 8000 rpm break point scaling and this one is is 1.87 bar and 7000 rpm
Now imo what may have happened here is that alot of copy pasting has been going on which has left it with the wrong map and rpm break points for the fuel values that have been pasted in

Carlos-Titx

This has made for interesting reading

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

normal service will be resumed shortly
when I have the offending sump in my hand and danny may actually agree with me on something for once as luke didn't make this sump and neither did I

dojj

iTrader: (3)

I melted an entire engine with about 10 seconds of full throttle after it started stuttering
It was absolutely fucked and I even sent a piston to chip for some sort of write up he was doing about melted pistons so it's not as if he doesn't know what he's talking about

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

dojj I offered to take pics late yesterday afternoon whilst I may have been sat close to the pistons I wasn't sat close to my camera then I went home
whilst at home I was sat close to my camera but alas I was no longer sat close to the pistons
I will try if I have time today to be sat close to both
Moonstone has suggested that I take them to ford fair and he can charge a small donation for those that wish to examine them 4i has offered him the loan of his begging bucket roflol

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

This has taken me fucking ages to work out, so you better appreciate it . And I can really see Harvey being bothered to get involved in this .

The only reason I did was to just point out that what was being stated about the map was not the whole story. As Karl has pointed out, you have to examine what parts of the load sites the map visits by datalogging on the road, so picking a point in the map that is unlikely to be visited and attributing that to the failure is flawed IMO. As an example of what I mean, the car is NEVER going to see 2.1 bar of boost at 1000rpm, but it still has a figure entered in at this point.....

However, if there are OTHER load sites that the car IS likely to visit that have the possibility of causing det, then that is a whole different kettle of tuner (sic) . I just don't think the one Tony has highlighted is the cause (from what I have seen about how this engine makes boost).
1000rpm:
18.50° at 0.24 bar
20.00° at 0.69 bar
16.25° at 0.96 bar
17.75 at 1.32 bar
17.00° at 1.82 bar
13.25° at 2.1 bar

1250rpm:
18.50° at 0.24 bar
20.00° at 0.69 bar
16.50° at 0.96 bar
17.50 at 1.32 bar
17.00° at 1.82 bar
13.00° at 2.1 bar

1500rpm:
19.75° at 0.24 bar
20.50° at 0.69 bar
17.50° at 0.96 bar
17.00 at 1.32 bar
16.25° at 1.82 bar
12.00° at 2.1 bar

1750rpm:
20.75° at 0.24 bar
21.25° at 0.69 bar
16.50° at 0.96 bar
17.50 at 1.32 bar
15.50° at 1.82 bar
10.50° at 2.1 bar

2000rpm:
22.25° at 0.24 bar
22.00° at 0.69 bar
19.50° at 0.96 bar
17.75 at 1.32 bar
14.50° at 1.82 bar
9.25° at 2.1 bar

2500rpm:
22.75° at 0.24 bar
23.00° at 0.69 bar
19.75° at 0.96 bar
15.25 at 1.32 bar
13.00° at 1.82 bar
7.00° at 2.1 bar

3000rpm:
22.75° at 0.24 bar
23.50° at 0.69 bar
20.00° at 0.96 bar
14.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.50° at 2.1 bar

3490rpm:
24.25° at 0.24 bar
24.00° at 0.69 bar
20.25° at 0.96 bar
15.50° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.50° at 2.1 bar

3990rpm:
24.75° at 0.24 bar
25.00° at 0.69 bar
21.50° at 0.96 bar
15.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.50° at 2.1 bar

4490rpm:
25.25° at 0.24 bar
25.25° at 0.69 bar
21.50° at 0.96 bar
16.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.5° at 2.1 bar

5000rpm:
25.50° at 0.24 bar
25.50° at 0.69 bar
22.00° at 0.96 bar
16.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.5° at 2.1 bar

5490rpm:
25.75° at 0.24 bar
25.75° at 0.69 bar
22.75° at 0.96 bar
16.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.5° at 2.1 bar

6000rpm:
26.00° at 0.24 bar
25.75° at 0.69 bar
23.00° at 0.96 bar
17.75° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.75° at 2.1 bar

6510rpm:
26.00° at 0.24 bar
26.00° at 0.69 bar
24.25° at 0.96 bar
18.00° at 1.32 bar
10.75° at 1.82 bar
8.75° at 2.1 bar

6990rpm:
26.75° at 0.24 bar
26.00° at 0.69 bar
24.50° at 0.96 bar
17.75° at 1.32 bar
11.75° at 1.82 bar
6.50° at 2.1 bar

7500rpm:
27.00° at 0.24 bar
26.25° at 0.69 bar
23.25° at 0.96 bar
17.50° at 1.32 bar
11.25° at 1.82 bar
7.25° at 2.1 bar

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

poor mike lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Well done, I know from experience that its no fun trying to show that table on a web forum.

Well if that is the ignition map, then I would say its actually safely conservative, especially as the revs climb and the ignition doesn't, a bit lazy and ignoring VE and piston speed, but certainly safe from a det point of view, if perhaps not EGT, but suitable fueling will combat EGT so that is irrelevent.

How come Tony worked it out to be so different on his screen?
I am a little lost now... Maybe you have been sent a different map Mike?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think that is one of Mike's old cars of a similar spec Stu?

Certainly all looks like it flows nicely and makes sense to me, so I will be surprised if that is the same map Tony is slating.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

All those pretty numbers mike

Can we have a separate thread for this who will be able to explain them all to us please

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dojj, there is not really much to explain in terms of what the numbers mean:


For example

6990rpm:
26.75° at 0.24 bar


So it will fire the spark plug 26.75 degrees before the piston gets to the top of the bore at 6990rpm at 0.24 bar of boost.


As boost rises, you expect ignition timing to fall, in order to prevent there being too much cylinder pressure.

Too much cylinder pressure will cause the fuel/air mix to explode (detonate) rather than burn, this can damage pistons as it puts massive loads on them when it happens.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That was not luke's map, that was what it should be, i haven't got luke's map, tony has.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

isnt there also concern on scaling as copying an pasting tables doesnt mean the scaling will stay the same so in effect what actually see isnt what your getting in the table ?this is a common mistake made with some evo software

edited ! well done mike you actual made sense there

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

MIKE has posted the ignition timing figures that the engine should have had not what it actually had
now because moonstones map we are looking at has a maximum pressure line of 1.87 bar boost the ignition timing will not alter at anything above 1.87 bar of boost
the figures for the 1.87 bar of boost + are
800rpm 27deg btdc
1000 rpm 26 deg btdc
1250 rpm 24.75deg btdc
1500 rpm 21.75 deg btdc
1990 rpm 18.5 deg btdc
2500 rpm 16.5 deg btdc
3000 rpm 15.5 deg btdc
3490 rpm 14.5 deg btdc
3990 rpm 14.25 deg btdc
4490 rpm 14.00 deg btdc
5000 rpm 13.5 deg btdc
5490 rpm 13.5 deg btdc
6000 rpm 13.5 deg btdc
6510 rpm 13.5 deg btdc
7020 rpm 13.5 deg btdc
7500 rpm 13,5 deg btdc