James the det is no where no what i was expecting

The car was running fine and of course would of untill the pistons gripped the bores getting the serious damage

And i think the det was caused previous to us mapping it..

Any other selective question you want to ask??


cheers danny

 

fair point sir

 

are you ignoring the fact that karl has said the map was in the danger zone for det?

 

i guess im not going to get to see the fuel table now then

 

Blimey Danny is doing more back peddling than a retared duck

 

or maybe even a irish duck

 

Sounds good mate! Will try and get down for a show or something! Funny though, cos last time I was down you're Saff had 0bhp too

 

What the fuck are you on about ??

the pistons have clearly seen det in their life but when can t be said!!

The melted part is down to heat and the bores gripping them thats for sure and thats when the cracks appeared!!! this did not happen because of det!!!

Its hard work on here with so many haters and so many people who dont know what they are looking at..

When a piston badly dets then temps will sore but that isnt bad det and didnt contribute to high temps gripping the pistons!!!


Did no one listen to what karl norris had to say???

Is he talking shit to??


cheers danny

 

Well Doug if it was a scottish Duck oit would be swigging cider and shouting at other ducks on the pond

 

Yep just as I thought a waste of time so feel free to carry on making yourself look like a cock !

 

in a strange language that no one understands maybe muttering braveheart a few times as well

 

Let me summarise this to date as I think this is becoming a little bit like trial and execution by internet! I am remaining totally impartial here as it is only fair! these are my points.

1. The pistons are detted above the top ring land. This damage will almost certainly be from excessive ignition timing. 14 degrees is in my opinion excessive at 2 bar boost and I would expect the engine to det at that amount of advance and Compression ratio. I would certainly say danny's map could easily have caused that det.

2. The pistons have fatigue cracks. These are probably not from dannys map. The pistons have no heat related failure that I can see. Only Det. Mahle pistons are prone to these cracks if revved over 8500rpm on std stroke. (safe rpm comes down as stroke goes up). A missed gear or an over rev condition is the likely cause, which is very common on 2wd high power engines.

The rest I will leave the children to bicker over.

 

Cider?? CIDER??? Which bit of fucking Scotland were you in??

Somer-Scotland?

I've never seen Scots with Cider, usually it's Buckfast, or Meths

 

Kick a man when he is down lol

Steve

 

Maybe we have the lower class drunken scot ducks down here,the posh ones could not get over Hadrian's Wall

 

Firstly tony has measured cr to be 7.43 so surmising it to be higher isnt fair and its also stated to not having 2 bar of boost 4.5 k it was only .65 bar..

If it had 2 bar at 4.5k at 14 degrees and was proven to be 7.6.1 cr then of course karl is correct but i have a logged boost graph that shows .65 bar at 4.5k time and time again??

also what cr is it 7.4 or 7.6 ..



these factors are very important to as why this car has detted..


cheers danny

 

now i am not in anyway clued up to mapping but surely it does not matter when your live mapping the car what the cr is or even if you dont no what cr it is as you will be adjusting the ignition,fueling to suit the engine as you go along the different sites in the map?

 

Spot on mate..


cheers danny

 

So it dont matter what the cr of these pistons are then as they should of been mapped to suit.

Steve

 

And I recall asking you Danny after it was mapped if you had a idea of how low the cr was and you said that with the amount of ignition in it you would say around the 7.2 mark.

Steve

 

I know this will upset all those who map on a rolling road, but can I just add, it is IMPOSSIBLE to map a car on the rolling road AND be confident it wont det on a high speed run on the road. I have been saying for years why I would never recommend a RR for final mapping. It is an ideal diagnostic tool, but cannot in any shape or form represent either the load or air flow achieved at 180mph! FACT!

What this means is that people who have their cars mapped on a RR must accept that det is a real risk when using the car in the real world. FACT!

 

i also always think about the lack of airflow on a rr when mapping will be no where near as much on the road so that would effect the ignition and fuel as well

 

your not the first tuner i have heard say this, all the ones i have heard speak about it say they map on a rr then the map is finalised on the road in real driving conditions as this is the only way they can be assured to be a safe det free map

 

we did , it would appear however that you did not

 

One very final point about RR's and I will give an example of something I tell my customers all the time, yet when a RR day comes round it beggers belief the questions I get about why the power was lower than expected.

T34 car example 1:

I map the car to the maximum safe reliable output of the turbo and engine spec. This is usually around 380bhp mark, and on a typical car will peak at say 30psi and tail to 24psi when held in 4th and 5th gear. This will be running the turbo very near its limit.

Car goes on RR. Car only makes 360bhp. HOWEVER, lets look at what has really happened.

1. Lack of load has now meant the car has only held 21psi instead of the 24psi it held in 5th gear on the road during its top speed run. That is 35psi absolute V 38psi absolute. This equates to a mass air flow reduction of at least 8% even if ACT was good on the RR which it wont be!

8% of 360bhp is 28bhp. Hence if the car had been able to replicate the real top speed condition and held its real 24psi it would have shown 388bhp on the RR, which is of course the safe limit of a T34 and exactly the conditions it was actually mapped for.

T34 Example 2:

Customer has run said T34 car up on RR and is unhappy it only made 360bhp. RR operator suggest they can do better. Boost is increased to hold 24psi on the RR and ignition timing optimsed to suit. Power now shows 390bhp on the RR. Customer thinks new tuner has done a great job!

HOWEVER, now lets take said car for its top speed run again in 5th gear. Now instead of running its 24psi held, turbo is holding 28psi! This is actually resulting in turbine overspeed, excessive back pressure, lean running and excessive ignition timing. Engine will likely sh!t itself.


Moral of the story: DO NOT USE RR'S FOR FINAL MAPPING OF A CAR!

 

What Karl is saying is that the det probs is down to the mapping, but the cracks and real damage is down to the car probs being over revved at some point.
There for the damage was already caused, mind if it had of kept going then it would have melted, then been the maps fault.

 

well put karl, and this is why you, stu, james, tony mark shead etc... are still going strong at the top of your games because you actually know what you are talking about instead of some of the enhanced drivel i have read on here

 

the cracks were probably from overrevving yes but the det and nipped piston ringlands were from the map, therfore the cause of failure!

 

a rolling road is merely just a tool like some of the operators

 

Not at Enhanced Performance.

Steve

 

And there warranty claims depot seems to have closed down

Steve

 

Fookin pmsl !

 

before danny digs himself a hole to Australia
I did say on my pics post that I had more pics
have you not noticed the pics only show 2 pistons
I wonder what the other 2 could look like

 

so example 2 must be what happened to steve then ? but with more ignition to boot

 

So when companies take a car and say 'We got an extra 40bhp out of the map' compared to (Add reputable tuners name), the chances are it's what Karl said and they have over done it? Or have I missed the point. Not having a dig by the way, just keen to learn.

Benni

 

Cue Danny and his shovel pmsl

 

When mapped on the road its mapped for real life conditions, no matter what Danny/luke tell you you cannot replicate that with a RR even the holy DD RR

Steve

 

I bought a escort cosworth that you built and mapped and we optimised it on the rr getting from 357 and 370 lb ft up to 390 and 405 we did this on the rr and that was nearly 2 years ago ..

it gets ragged all the time and in fact has now done 9k miles since we did this so although you believe your own map cant be improved i can tell you you are wrong!!FACT

Also why does every one ignore the fact that even though there was 14 degrees ignition at 4.5 k there was only .65 bar of boost??



cheers danny

 

One thing that gets me wondering is if Danny is so good at building race cars why does he need to buy a supra diff conversion of Tony?

 

So all the final mapping done on my escos was pointless and ready for blowing up???lol

It never went wrong engine wise full stop!!!


cheers danny