anyone done this on here?

 

Yes, used to on my old engine

 

im considering converting my EFI standard setup to run on bike throttle bodies with an emerald and some other mods [in the process of doing the typical bolt on stuff]

im aiming to keep the original loom and sensors [apart from TPS due to the throttle bodies] and effectively build an adapter for the current ECU plug.

im not going turbo though.

i have spares of most [if not all] of the sensors that make up the system, including an ECU.

what was your old engine spec?

 

That will work fine, but is there a reason for specifically picking emerald?
Have you considered possibly using an ECU with software which appears to have been designed after the middle ages instead? Or do you already have the emerald spare from another project?

 

i have been told by others that the emerald setup is most appropriate for my needs tbh.

what other options are there?:

megajolt/megasquirt/omex?


i take it you think there is a better setup, please advise! i want something where i can map it myself almost and the emerald seems the best for that.

although i havent gone into the Omex setups in too much detail - they seem more expensive.

 

The Omex you mention and also many others are FAR nicer to map on the road, mainly because it instantly updates based on a single keypress in a cell on the main mapping grid (emerald if mapping this way you have to enter a new value then you have to click to update then you have to click to say that yes you are sure you want to update, then you have to wait then when it finishes updating you have to press another key to say you accept that it has now updated)



My opinions:

Emeral is reliable hardware, if getting mapped by Dave Walker then it will be made to look easy, if getting mapped on the rollers by anyone else it will look reasonable, if you are going to map it on the road yourself though its like pulling teeth.
Ive been mapping it for years and years and still hate it


Megasquirt mapping software is very good but it is quite complicated for a first time user potentially, but not too bad if you have a good basemap.
Hardware is not great though, the main loom connector is shocking and depending on who made it potentially there could be dry joints and all sorts.
I have megaquirt from James Murray on my bike ITB corsa though and it works well and I like mapping with it.

Mtech V4 is all the plus points of megasquirt (other than slightly dearer) but with none of the hardware downsides, really good connectors, properly machine assembled etc, and this is what I personally would choose on your engine
I have this on my clio trackday car for example, which I bought for it when I went to ITB's (now im on a custom single throttle inlet instead though)
As per megasquirt, a joy to map once you understand the tuner studio.


Omex 600 is a good option too, Reliable hardware commonly used in motorsport and althouhg I think the software looks a bit cheap and cheerful I cant deny that it actually works very well, its easy to map yourself on the road and its very well supported by rolling roads etc to finish it off if you need to.
Ive mapped quite a lot of cars on this, and its definately one of the easier to use systems if this is your first time?



Realistically by the way to get good results you WILL need some time on the rollers, you wont be able to find optimum ignition on a throttle body engine on the road, its just not really possible.

 

thanks for all the info - will look at other systems on the web.

this will be my first time but i have a broad understanding of how it all works and what is what.

with Mtech V4 and Omex will i be able to calibrate my existing sensors to their ecu or is it a case of replacing everything - this was a big plus for Emerald - along with the switchable profiles too.

i really need to read up on some other ecu setups to get the feel for how they all work properly. its very clear on the emerald website as to how it all works.

 

Yes both mtech and omex will work fine with your existing sensors.

In fact megasquirt or mtech (same software) are probably the best of all management systems in this respect, better even than things like my autronic which was far more expensive.

 

cheers mate, im looking at the Mtech system, which seems a good price - but i need to learn more about the workings of it too.

 

Give them a ring mate 01373 30 30 33, and ask to talk to Matt (feel free to say Chip from passionford sent you as he knows me quite well anyway) and im sure he will be able to talk you through it as I know that older ford engines are something they deal with day in and day out (mainly zetecs but im sure a CVH will be something they have experience of too)

 

had a read and it seems fairly straightforward.

there is a workaround with the EDIS module as with V4 you need to bypass it.

looks quite simple actually. i can butcher a knackered ECU for the connector and mount the new ecu on a board that will connect to this to then connect to the main car's loom.

this is so if i get any problems i can just plug in the factory ECU and i will at least be able to run it if anything goes wrong [until i fit throttle bodies then it might get interesting LOL]

 

The V4 on my clio is done like that, I chopped up an old ECU for the plug then used the standard loom, could drive it on either when I first did it until I fitted the bodies.

This is how much power difference it made in my case after I put it on the Mtech and mapped it:



Not bad for an instalation that took only a couple of hours and only an hour or so of mapping.

Mine had a particularly crap map in the standard ecu though, was making less power than standard should be, so you probably wont see those sort of gains from management alone, but my point is just that the mtech is very capable for your application

 

awesome - so that means i'm not going mad then...

 

Well, you still might be, lol

Have edited my post above by the way as I found a graph from when I first did my clio.

 

cheers.

basically my car will be a weekend/trackday tool. i want to modify it and have already done the following on my red one before it got nicked [these will go on my new one when i get chance]:

exhaust + manifold
filter
suspension
LSD box [already fitted to my new one]
throttle bodies [probably off a GSXR K1]
Head work..... eventually
i might install a lambda probe too if that helps with the fuel mapping etc.

 

Sounds like sensible mods to me mate

Essentially the same overall spec as my clio and corsa and they are both good fun on track, although neither have headwork but then they are 16v anyway.

Oh and both are about to get 285 cams as well to pep them up a little more.

 

yeah i was thinking a CVH33 cam or similar on the head work. im not sold on which cam yet and i have been told that Newman cams are really good, but cmas is a whole other discussion when you start talking about which double valve springs work etc.

oh ive also got RST brakes and braided hoses to go on too.

 

Im not a CVH expert so cant advise on the cam Im afraid.

Brakes are certainly massively important on a trackday car, my clio lost 2 seconds off its laptimes with coilovers and wider track, 2 seconds with throttle bodies, and 3 seconds with better brakes, but they were REALLY bad to begin with

 

yeah well i have got the standard brakes really warm on some tight country roads and the discs look really small anyways [238mm standards i think]

so the RST 270mm ones or whatever are the biggest that fit under the standard alloys.

 

focus 4 pots or similar might be worth a look, but obviously depends on budget.

 

I think the S2 setup is fine for now. if i run out of brakes on the ring in july then we'll see what i can do.

 

Dont worry, in my experience at the ring if your brakes dont stop you the barrier soon will

 

yes and i know the barrier costs per metre too lol. im not going to go silly anyways as it will be my first time

then Ford Fair in August.

this ECU and throttle body thing is for next winter

 

Look forward to seeing it at ford fair then.

My mrs is taking her clio 172 up if they allow non fords out again.

 

awesome.

ill have a further look into that M-Tech V4 and make some plans.

 

As Ive said mate, best bet is to phone Matt, he is such an easy guy to deal with

 

awesome, will do when i get chance.

 

ive no time to read the whole thread but heres my tupence, If wanting to keep the original loom intact and use the crank sensor, edis4 and the injection loom (to the plug) then use megasquirt, because as far as i know its th eonly programmable management that can be used with edis. You will only require breaking into two of the edis wires, PIP and SAW, and as you say make up a plug for your injector/temps sensors. i would have a seperate wire for the throttle pot to save butchering the injection loom. Then the rev counter and everything else will work with no other wiring or modifications, and if you leave the original ecu in place this could be used if the system ecer developed a problem (i did this on my first MS car)

 

hmm interesting.

the Mtech V4 bypasses the EDIS module where as a Mtech V3 does not and uses it.to be fair i dont mind that as the bypass proceedure on the V4 is a similar affair as you describe.

ive heard that if i used megasquirt i would be forever dicking around with it to get it right.

cheers for the input - its all part of generating an accurate picture of whats what.

 

You will be doing that with them all, if you dont want to mess with it then leave it standard lol
use the ecu that has the most back up for you personally, but all i can say is ive used MS on four of my daily drivers, over six years and there was only one small failure that was self inflicted. (the good thing about MS is you can replace components/fix it yourself, cheaply if you blow something up with stupidity/inexperience)

 

Im not a fan of the edis module because of the way it manages to run the engine at 10 degrees advance even if the ecu fails or there is a problem with the wire between the two.
As a "get you home" its awesome, but if it happens on boost at a time where you are under 10 degrees advance for det it can be bye bye engine, I'd prefer just to have a misfire or the engine cutout.

For N/A though its kind of cool I suppose as 10 degrees everywhere on most engines will drive relatively well, but I still just prefer the idea of the ecu doing everything and if it fails then I'll just fix it!

 

yeah i will be forever dickign around with cars anyways but i want something that doesnt need constant rolling road setting up.

ive only learnt what the EDIS module does in the last few months, and never had a Turbo car with it on [dont know whether the 900 T-16 had something similar] so wouldnt know.

 

Once mapped, unless something changes with regards to the spec of the engine (ie swapping cams or turbo or whatever) I tend to just leave things alone more or less, there is no need to constantly revisit.

Obviously you'll always be tempted to the odd little tweak when you notice a stray AFR here or there when on cruise or whatever, but its only something you do because you WANT to do it, it shouldnt be anything you HAVE to do, if that makes sense?

 

yeah thats right.

it all depends on what happens when its done.

first things first - get the stuff done on the list first where i have all the bits ready.

first off, ive dug out my spare inlet manifold and it seems to be ideal for the throttle body conversion:







the plan is to chop this piece at the end of the straight pipes at the bottom, and then taper the internals ready for fitment of the bodies using the airbox rubbers that normally come with them.

 

blimey when was the last time you mapped an emerald? i have a k3 and have fitted and mapped several k3's,when you live map all you do is hold throttle posistion,engine rpm and load,change igntion and injection maps using the quick keys and just hit return and it instantly loads the cells,are you talking about the old m3d?,i have dealt with mbe,megasquirt and the emerald software was the easiest to use,you can even set target afr's and it maps the injection itself!!
every tuner will be biased to a particular system,as they would have spent hours using the same software,for example i was compiling a spreadsheet on excel the other week and got pissed of with it as i could'nt do what i wanted to do,the mrs walks in and says "nah just press f4" well bugger me it worked as she uses it at work everyday.

 

i think i need to physically look at this software to make my own mind up.

cost is a factor and the omex 600 is the most expensive.

the emerald and the M-Tech V4 are similarly priced and similar things said about both. the outlook of emerald seem more tech minded than the M-Tech people, as the M-Tech website is quick and bullet pointed with a lit of features which is informative and easy to check out, but i get a clearer picture with the emerald spec setup.

 

thats not entirly true chip, you can never run less than 10 degrees advance (ie 9 or less) on edis, unless you offset the wheel by say 45 degrees (there is an offset in the ecu to do this) but then it will fail safe at 35 degrees after tdc

 

Edis is bullet proof. And your car wont need constant rolling roading, its not a set of carbs
100% agree, you will want to change small things to make it as perfect as you can. And the best thing is YOU can actually do this
So can megasquirt, and so can most TBH
At the end of the day they will all work, just go with what you fancy. I wouldnt spend more than £200 on an ecu personaly, but then i can get one that will do everything i need for that money and spend the rest on other stuff. Just have fun getting it running and tuning it

 

£200?

Where are these £200 ECUs? they all seem to be £500 ish new and the second hand market is sparse. i think.

im looking on fleabay at all three types and seeing what comes up.

downloaded the Emerald Demo software last night and had a look - it lacked a base map and i would need to work out how it does in fact work, but all in all i thought it was relatively straightforward.

it reminds me of using game level editors back in't day!!!!

 

lol, you can but a MS for less than that if you build it yourself, but one can still be had for 200.