I have a wasted spark kit which im having problems with

I had the driver installed where the kit was purchased from, followed all the instructions to the tee and the car runs lumpy as f**k and the rev counter is no longer working

I was hoping to drive the car this weekend as the car has been off the road for weeks doing bits, the company is now shut for the weekend, any ideas?

 

is it a msd wasted spark kit? if so theres someone on here from msd who might be able to help if he sees this, your rev counter is fed from a different pin on your ecu now if its the msd kit which should be in your instructions, ive also got this fitted and having a massive amount of problems with it, this weekend is the last time im messing about trying to get it to work and then ill be ripping the whole lot out, have you set your plug gaps to what msd recommend? so far ive only managed to get mine firing on cylinders 2 and 3 for all of a minute, im not having alot of luck with this kit either and its going to cost me too much to bring my car all the way to blackpool for msd to sort out

 

Yes it is

I brought brand new ik27's and gapped them at 0.75mm

Mine runs, proper lumpy but the rev counter doesn't work, had to leave it alone for tonight as I got the hump lol and loosing my enthusiasm with the car which is p**sin me off as I don't give up easy. Wont be able to phone up till Monday to get any advice

I did check out before I brought the kit and there are some great reports that's why I brought it, done a bit more research tonight and seen some of the headaches, it appears that my p8 doesn't need the driver for wasted spark, is this true?, could this be why its not working??

Guess just been stressed with the whole car, since owning I've been putting right all the cock up shoddy bits other people have done, every little job so far has turned in to a major one, I am planning on a full resto but wanna enjoy the car for a bit, I am doing everything right just seem to be not having any luck

 

Not sure about your p8 ecu someone on here might know, I've been down my garage again today and turned the engine with plugs out but left in the ends of the leads each one only sparks now and then when it feels like it, been all over everything on the car, sensors plug gaps sensor gaps etc and its all spot on, will be ripping it all out now and getting my car running on a standard setup

 

you dont gap them plugs mate

 

According to the instructions I have from msd you do

 

RS Cosworth YB Escort/Sierra Genuine 071 Spark Plugs x 4

She will run like a dream

 

Already fitted, and nothing, have also tried 3 other types of spark plug and....... Nothing

 

Tried getting the ecu tested? Sounds like the WS board in the ECU or the coil pack?


I know how you feel to be down about a car, so I hope you guys can get it sorted

 

You don't need a driver with P8, you just need it enabled in your calibration!

I suspect if your rev counter does not work, you have not reconnected the wire from the original coil, which I assume should connect to the now coil pack?

The rev counter can require a mod in some cases, but it should still work, just won't be accurate.

All spark plugs need gapping, and that gap sounds about right.

Martin

 

My ecu was sent back to msd to be tested and they assured me it was fine when plugged into another cosworth running wasted spark only way I can see that I'll figure mine out is to fit a standard loom ecu cool etc get it running that way and then fit the wasted spark back in and see what's up, I honestly don't find this a great piece of kit ATM as most say it is and I see more and more threads on forums about this kit not working

 

31s run better in cold weather but tried both on my car

i then reverted back to the old plugs Car runs flawless

they foul up really quick and misfire cars fooked wont drive

unless your fueling is spot on

TRUST ME

 

Sell on the bits you know work, and go aftermarket mate

 

I sent my ECU in and had it fitted, I think they test it before they send it back

I know mate, I'm trying to keep my enthusiasm but at the moment its dying fast lol, I know I was gonna be in for a tough time buying a cosworth, but when you know your doing everything right and get set back after set back it does become disheartening, but then I go out to the garage and look at her, or read on here of how well other peoples cars are doing and it keeps me going

 

If that's the case cant it just be enabled by them instead of putting a new driver in? And how would the rev counter work with it just being enabled?

The 2 wires from the original coil have been disconnected and insulated, the 2 green wires that plug in to a little black suppressor have been joined and soldered together, covered the backs of the amps in the heat sink, done the taco mod.

I know my ECU loom didn't have all the spaces free, I did ring up, I was told that mine prob had an air con loom so just disconnect the plug and will be fine

 

I seem to be finding the same thing out


Plugs are brand new mate

 

Easy to say that mate when you just spend all that money on the kit, including new coil bracket, dis cap blank, installation of driver & postage there and back etc, I've spent over Ł500, and now even though I have had the kit 2 weeks and not had it working its second hand so would of lost too much money

 

Sorry to hear that mate,mine worked spot on from the word go. I did the mod on the back of the rev counter and it works perfect now.

 

Is yours in an Escort??

I'm just about to go recheck everything I have done, I'm sure its all done right as I took my time and didn't rush anything, I will probably take pictures as well so I can send them to show what I have done, already took pics of the taco mod as I was doing it

Just a shame msd are 4 hours away from me lol

 

Does anyone know if this may cure the problem??

http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d31.html

If you scroll down a bit theres a taco driver mod

 

I've been down my garage again and made a vid ill get up later, I'm getting 3 plugs spark on first turn of the key, then nothing on second, then on cranking absolutely nothing and then when I turn the key back 3 spark again all at the same time

 

Hi guys, I can try and help you on here but obviously it's not easy from long distance to diagnose component problems etc but we can certainly have a go.


The biggest problem we see is installation problem of the driver, now if we fitted it that shouldn't be a problem but as we are all just humans anything is possible so please both pop a picture up of the driver install showing the board, the soldering and the connector pins where they are cut if possible.

Secondly, P8 requires a slightly different driver. Again, the picture will ascertain that if its an issue.

Thirdly, a LOT of people seem to think they can remove the phase sensor. You CANNOT. it must be installed, gapped and Timed as per normal or it will NOT work. It's your camshaft sensor and has NOTHING to do with the ignition.

Finally, ensure the plug leads are correct. Wasted spark coils are TWO coils. One fires 1 and 4, the other 2 and 3. The orientation of each pair don't matter so plug leads 1and4 are interchangeable, as are 2 and 3.

I'm on my phone at the moment with limited time as I am out with the kids but will pop back later to look at any pics and advise.

 

Accordingly to the reply by Stu you do, I was told before that you just need it enabled in the calibration though?

I am not sure how it's done when you fit WS, but as standard the rev counter gets it's signal from the ground side of the coil, so I would have thought this has to be connected somewhere and currently it has no connection.

I would check the firing order is correct, as that is an easy thing to do.

Martin

 

You sir are a legend

I've taken pictures so far of whats been done engine side, I'll go take the ecu out now and take pictures of that and then up load then all

Really appreciate the help people have given

 

heres a vid of what mine does



crasnk at tdc



looking down into cylinder piston at tdc



rotor arm lined up to mark on distributor with rotor arm off



and with rotor arm on



crankshaft sensor, gapped to cosworth manual



plugs, gapped to .50, but have also tried .75 and 1.0, seem to get a spark better at .50 when it does



phase sensor gapped to cosworth manual specification



cams timed to tdc





coil pack and leads, can slightly make out the numbers on 3 of the leads



twin amp and bracket



so with everything timed correctly and gapped correctly i really dont know what to make of it other then maybe a fecked engine loom or something up with the wasted spark? ideally if the plugs do all spark at the same time that means the driver is doing something? but obviously has no means to spark when it should which could mean faulty sensor or part of the loom that sends the current from the sensor to the ecu? i really dont know im not good with electrics atall, is there anywhere i can send this whole lot to be tested? i know how delbee 1 feels its all a bit of a problem which has cost alot of money which we expected to be alot simpler

 

Taco mod



Amps



New plug on old loom to connect W/S loom, connections were crimped and soldered on each pin



Leads on coil pack



Back of ECU



Front of ECU



Connections in ECU



Pins to ECU, the wire to the left with the tapped up end was the original wire from pin 21



My car had a group A coil with 2 spade connections, the green and black ones in the middle towards the top, I tapped and shrunk wrapped those, the green wire to the right was where the plug was to the suppressor, I soldered those together and shrunk wrapped, the 2 black round connectors were already joined together from running the group a coil, don't know if that was right as it was all fitted when I brought the car so have just left that alone.

 

Last night I put the old plugs with smaller gap in which made no difference.

I also undone and re-gapped the CPS to 0.70mm which again made no change.

All the engine sensors are new.

Before fitting the W/S the car ran pretty sweet, the revs used to slightly hunt, hence changing all the engine sensors, I also changed all the inlet gaskets for cometic and resealed all the take off's from the inlet manifold, still used to hunt so rather than buy new leads and group a coil bit the bullet and brought the W/S

 

I would personally bite the bullet and get the car to msd even if you need to put it on a trailer and take a road trip, they have a brilliant reputation and they WILL get it running its best.

 

Hi mate I had a problem with mine where it would misfire and just run like a dog in general, it was cured by earthing cool pack properly, can't hurt to try it

 

Hi Mate, I'll give that a go, the coil pack is not installed in to position yet so fingers crossed, I did read somewhere about the amps having a good earth so did try running an earth directly to each one of those but no joy

 

Just fitted the coil pack in to position from where group a coil was removed, I check it was well grounded but no joy still the same

 

If your local mate u can try my ecu on your car to see wat happens its an l8 though plus got all the other wasted spark bits my cars off the road at the mo anyway. I'm in HA5 area

 

No mate, 4x4 saph, they're 4 hrs from me too

 

Your not too far from me, would an L8 work instead of the P8 in an escort then?

 

ok so I tried unplugging the amps one at a time as seems to be running on 2

Unplugged one and made no difference, plugged that back in and un plugged the other and popped out of the exhaust and would not start, I then plugged the one the car ran with in to the other connector from the loom to rule that out and the car runs

Seems to be a fault with one of the amps, if its a problem with the heat sink to the back will this cause problems?

don't think theres anywhere I'll be able to get one today?? So will ring MSD in the morning

 

Morning mate,
Apologies, the images wouldnt load on my phone and we didn't get home until very late last night as was out enjoying the sun in the lakes.

Your installation looks fine and the jumper to enable P8 mode is fitted so its not that sadly as that would have been a nice easy fix.

Yes, L8 and P8 are straight swops.
Maybe you could borrow this fellas L8 and Ignition amps?

Glad your making progress mate. The heatsink would only cause a problem after a period of running, it wouldn't cause a non start.

 

Hi Boyracer,
Still need nice clear pictures of your ECU install please.

Drop me some links please as I am keen to offer support if people are having issues. You have to remember this is quite a complex mod as far as Cosworth's go and almost every car they are fitted to have 20+ year old looms, ECU's and sensors which can cause issues as the signal to the board needs to be perfect. The biggest issue we see is DIY fitment problems. We fit a LOT of these in house and have been doing for many years. We very rarely have any problems with the kit itself, only the cars or the fitment by others.

If your tuner supports it you can enable WS in the calibration itself and then sort the tacho problems out some other way.

 

thanks for the reply mate

I rang up and spoke to steve this morning and ordered a new amp, hopefully will cure the rev counter as well, if not may need a little advice on fitting the diodes

 

No problem mate, we are here to help.
Ref Rev counter - make absolutely sure there is nothing else on the line between pin 21 and the tacho itself. It cannot take any form of signal pull down from the driver to tacho as it runs much less voltage than the standard coil signal which is why it needs the mod to the back of the tacho.

Ideally, just run a fresh wire there and bypass the WS loom on this side as that removes all the old Ford wiring from the equation.

Also ensure the voltage to both ECU pin 20 and the tacho itself is above 13v. This is critical for correct operation.

 

I'm looking forward to getting mine up and running so I can go for this conversion