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Another failed gated sump causing engine meltdown

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Old 10-08-2012 | 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by flannigan
I never challenged Danny mate he was waffling on saying that his car is mental fast on track and challenged anybody on the thread to go and prove him wrong so I accepted

look back , i said if anyone thinks theyre quicker then il take them on..lol


I deffo wasnt expecting some one with a done up road car to challenge me!!!lol..

It will be a laugh though..


cheers danny
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:04 PM
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That's because they haven't mate the car has never seen the road till I bought it if you want to see what you're up against google rick may dmn as that's what it ran in the last 6 years before I bought it off him minus engine it held the lap record for the fastest rwd cosworth at 3 curcuits in the south of England if you're gona race bring a racecar
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:05 PM
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fairplay danny them times are mental lol
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by flannigan
That's because they haven't mate the car has never seen the road till I bought it if you want to see what you're up against google rick may dmn as that's what it ran in the last 6 years before I bought it off him minus engine it held the lap record for the fastest rwd cosworth at 3 curcuits in the south of England if you're gona race bring a racecar
hahahaha this thread is getting exciting
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by flannigan
That's because they haven't mate the car has never seen the road till I bought it if you want to see what you're up against google rick may dmn as that's what it ran in the last 6 years before I bought it off him minus engine it held the lap record for the fastest rwd cosworth at 3 curcuits in the south of England if you're gona race bring a racecar

Yeah iv been told all about it and rick may can proper peddle in most cars..

What did the chassis originate from??


cheers danny
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 750hp escos
Yeah iv been told all about it and rick may can proper peddle in most cars..

What did the chassis originate from??


cheers danny
A 3dr cosworth Motorsport shell as far as I'm aware but that is irrelevant as yours was a ford escort pulled off the production line and converted into a Motorsport shell too unless I'm very wrong ?
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:18 PM
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I've read the whole thread Danny , just a quick question about the AFR figures on the rollers that day with Steves car Luke mapping. I seem to recall you mentioning originally that the map was fairly rich in your opinion . A few posts ago your saying in one sentance this is usually the case compared to the road (im taking it the chip was originaly road mapped prior to you guys seeing it) but then questioned this after you said it. Or have i read you wrong fella ? Generaly interested Danny i'm not picking holes . When mapping Webber on a RR with moderate spec setups can you 'allow' in the map a correction factor enough to still be safe with the extra load you will create ?

Last edited by opposite lock; 10-08-2012 at 10:20 PM.
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bigz2345
hahahaha this thread is getting exciting
What??

It's just as dull now as it was 15 fucking pages ago Still no pistons!
Old 10-08-2012 | 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by opposite lock
I've read the whole thread Danny , just a quick question about the AFR figures on the rollers that day with Steves car Luke mapping. I seem to recall you mentioning originally that the map was fairly rich in your opinion . A few posts ago your saying in one sentance this is usually the case compared to the road (im taking it the chip was originaly road mapped prior to you guys seeing it) but then questioned this after you said it. Or have i read you wrong fella ? Generaly interested Danny i'm not picking holes . When mapping Webber on a RR with moderate spec setups can you 'allow' in the map a correction factor enough to still be safe with the extra load you will create ?

The map was done in car on rollers and on shoot mode it looks a little rich due to the car not having as much load on it but when mapping certain areas with load on the car it wont be as rich so yes if you see shoot mode and its a little rich it wont be as rich on the road..


cheers danny
Old 11-08-2012 | 08:04 AM
  #890  
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close thread....
Old 11-08-2012 | 08:38 AM
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today I am with camera and pistons on what is supposed to be my day off .The things I do in the name of PF

Last edited by Turbosystems; 11-08-2012 at 08:39 AM.
Old 11-08-2012 | 08:57 AM
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Even i can take a pic and upload them in less than 20 minutes

Steve
Old 11-08-2012 | 09:03 AM
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this thread has now gone very gay and all 'fast and furious'. race for respect - wtf? how old are you?

what happened to having an intelligent, reasoned argument?
Old 11-08-2012 | 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cossie4i+
Even i can take a pic and upload them in less than 20 minutes

Steve
that's cos you have fook all else to do lol
It alls adds to the suspense
Old 11-08-2012 | 11:47 AM
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Quite boring now Tony actually. Maybe you and Steve are a match made in heaven with your attention seeking
Old 11-08-2012 | 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
this thread has now gone very gay and all 'fast and furious'. race for respect - wtf? how old are you?

what happened to having an intelligent, reasoned argument?
Describing it as 'very gay' is very intelligent and reasoned is it?

Benni
Old 11-08-2012 | 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 750hp escos
You can have your own opinion on either me or luke and thats fine but to say we cant tune a car is simply ridicilous as we have both built and tuned many cars..

Of this very site alone luke has mapped over 50 cossies on webber and this is the only one luke has been blamed to have got wrong!!

The blame is pointed at luke from anothe tuner that doesnt like us from previous..

The comment about my car being so good and reliable engine wise is just as a comparison and believe me the map on every one elses car was done to the same standard..

When it comes to people dissecting a map when not on a car and just in graph or numbers terms its very easy for others to pick holes but when an expert like karl norris just to name one doesnt openly pick holes then imo there isnt anything wrong with it..

To say that either of us isnt competent is a stupid statement and one many can tell you is rubbish..

We have built and mapped 600+ engines as well as building a few race cars and loads of fast road cars to prove we are far from competent..

Like i say you can have your own opinion and never be intersted in what weve done before or in the future but your statement above is complete and utter bull shit!!!






The explanation has already been given before..the car was mapped at held load right through the rev range and the cooling and inlet temps as well as ambient temps were all in a good environment..


There isnt anything i or luke hasnt answered in this thread and its not going anywhere..

I wont be answering any more questions on it unless some one comes up with something worth answering that hasnt been answered..



cheers danny

You say no one has read your repllies well havnt exactly gave a full answer to any question apart behave like a child insulting people! how the hell do you think people will take you seriously when they info changes regulary and you say above you and luke arnt competent

pleased re read what you have wrote DANNY PLEASE READ IT AGAIN

but so far from your info we have determind this

you have added 4+ dregees to most of the map and seeing as it was rich in your eyes so you dialed out fuel to !!

now solid state MODE WILL NOT replicate road tuning unless you can simulate on ur dyno air density , air temp and air flow plus real load
which is very much so impossible to do then that car was leaner on the road and with more ign added to boot after you finished mapping on your dyno ! so i agree that possibly that car had no det on the dyno but on the road im not so sure

right ive lost the will to live now with this thread tbh and danny for christ sake im not not picking on you either just trying to stop you making a fool out yourself anymore

Last edited by Jay,; 11-08-2012 at 01:52 PM.
Old 11-08-2012 | 02:39 PM
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ch
Originally Posted by Jay,
You say no one has read your repllies well havnt exactly gave a full answer to any question apart behave like a child insulting people! how the hell do you think people will take you seriously when they info changes regulary and you say above you and luke arnt competent

pleased re read what you have wrote DANNY PLEASE READ IT AGAIN

but so far from your info we have determind this

you have added 4+ dregees to most of the map and seeing as it was rich in your eyes so you dialed out fuel to !!

now solid state MODE WILL NOT replicate road tuning unless you can simulate on ur dyno air density , air temp and air flow plus real load
which is very much so impossible to do then that car was leaner on the road and with more ign added to boot after you finished mapping on your dyno ! so i agree that possibly that car had no det on the dyno but on the road im not so sure

right ive lost the will to live now with this thread tbh and danny for christ sake im not not picking on you either just trying to stop you making a fool out yourself anymore

Apart from mis saying what i ment above which im sure everyone reading it knew exactly what i meant where on here have i made a fool of my self??


Iv gone over and over the way the fueling can be different on rr to road and explained where the afr was when it left giving a good indication that it would be fine even if it was a bit leaner on road..

You need to read and learn to under stand whats been said as i have said it more than once..

As for cooling etc iv already said the inlet temps and ambient temps were good so no concern there either..

The fan in the dyno cell was always good and the cool air drawn from outside blown straight in front of the main cooling fan..the cell was always good for that especially when in horsham...


Im glad you liked to add on the end of this with your vast knowledge of mapping skills and dyno skills its been a massive input !!!



cheers danny
Old 11-08-2012 | 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CossieRich
Quite boring now Tony actually.
Have to agree with you there Rich, he does come accross very childish for an old coont..
Old 11-08-2012 | 03:04 PM
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Its all gone a bit

Old 11-08-2012 | 04:08 PM
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Home now I have pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759472378/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759472378/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759473222/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759473222/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759474112/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759474112/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759475404/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759475404/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759476336/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759476336/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759477368/http://www.flickr.com/photos/77983146@N03/7759477368/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/77983146@N03/, on Flickr

enjoy
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:13 PM
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Yes id say thats prolonged det due to over advanced imo !

Last edited by Jay,; 11-08-2012 at 04:18 PM.
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:18 PM
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It would seem that Danny owes moonstone a set of pistons !
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:20 PM
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Nice piccies there mate

Steve
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 750hp escos
There is many ways it could of detted but if it was alittle bit at a time from spark then it will look like loads of little bits of piston missing around the rings like something eating it away on the exhaust side..

If it was a fueling failure it will look more like a melted scrape where the piston is grabbing the bore due to to much heat build up..

Im sure others can give a better description but thats a couple to hand..


cheers danny
I can see exactly what you mean
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:24 PM
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How do you tell how the det occured? I have no idea, and looking at those pistons doesn't clarify it for me?

Old 11-08-2012 | 04:26 PM
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Nevermind, Flannigan has just clarified it in my mind
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:26 PM
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Look at the answer above Rab

Steve
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonstone Steve.
Nice piccies there mate

Steve
thankyou
I had a perfect subject matter which made it so much easier
has the suspense been killing you all
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:37 PM
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Certainly looks like over advanced spark det to me.

Also congratulations on achieving a cracked piston. You were minutes away from having a very large hole in the side of your block!
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbosystems
thankyou
I had a perfect subject matter which made it so much easier
has the suspense been killing you all
I have been on the edge of my seat.......not lol

See you tomorrow you old fart, better get the head gear on as the wifey is coming along and has said she needs a chat with you

Steve
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl
Certainly looks like over advanced spark det to me.

Also congratulations on achieving a cracked piston. You were minutes away from having a very large hole in the side of your block!
Thankyou

Steve
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:41 PM
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Are you actually trying to say that is it???

Are the rings stuck in place? and in the third pic id be more worried about the crack right down the side of the piston,or was that the maps fault too

Seriously there really isnt lots of damage there and nothing like i was expecting!!

I love peoples reactions too like they look at a pic of some pistons that do have some marginal det on them and think yep that was lukes map!!!!lol especially jay!!,have you ever seen some proper prolonged det damage? obviously not!

being used especially
I think and im being honest here that that little bit of det could of been caused at any time in its life and any little thing that had happened since it see boost ie vacuum pipe coming of could of been its last life nipping the rings or something similar..



cheers danny
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:47 PM
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I would have put everything I own on you saying something along them lines dan !
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:49 PM
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I shall bring them along for viewings and inspection to silver stone
they will be exhibited on the the PF stand if we can get a ticket for them
Where would you like the invoice sending Danny and what company name would you like on it or shall I just make one up for you BS performance roflol

Last edited by Turbosystems; 11-08-2012 at 04:52 PM.
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:51 PM
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I actually agree with Danny, it certainly is'nt horrendous. I would suggest from looking at the bowl size on the pistons that the C.R is actually higher than stated. I would suggest around 7.6:1 with those size valve cutouts. 14 degrees ign is too advanced for that compression at 2 bar boost in the mid range rpms. Something around 8 would be correct, at 14 degrees you'd be at the onset of det, albeit not immediate engine failure casuing det. At 7.6:1 catastrophic det usually occurs at around 15 degrees at 2 bar boost at the infamous danger zone of 5500rpm. As this engine was running near to 14 degrees of advance, I would suggest (because no one can say with 100% certainty) it was within the danger zone.
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:57 PM
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I have more pics
the cracked piston shown in the pic has a matching one on the other side
a fantastic achievement not seen that even in the late 80's on mahles running the old xo38 injector t3 yb map which ran 24 degrees at 7000

Last edited by Turbosystems; 11-08-2012 at 04:58 PM.
Old 11-08-2012 | 04:58 PM
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time for danny to pay up.
Old 11-08-2012 | 05:05 PM
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If the cracked piston has a twin and looks like that one with a scrape above the ring land then the engine defiantly got hot in the cylinders because id say that damage is down to the pistons gripping in the bore...

There is deffo det around the rings but when that has occurred is anyones guess??


cheers danny
Old 11-08-2012 | 05:07 PM
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it won't have happened with stu's map in
IIRC moonstones engine problems occurred shortly after the ep rolling road mapping
he made a post somewhere about it last year I believe

Last edited by Turbosystems; 11-08-2012 at 05:11 PM.


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