How much benifit is there with wasted spark?
25-02-2013, 10:07 PM
#1
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How much benifit is there with wasted spark?
Hi all as above is there a big diffrence with wasted spark?
thanks for the info everyone
thanks for the info everyone
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02-03-2013, 09:21 AM
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If you are not confident to solder in the ecu send it to msd to fit, then everything else is plug and play, a sub loom connects to the ignition amp plug and this has 2 plugs for dual ignition amps, a coil pack plug and a couple of wire to add to the ecu plug, think 21 for rev counter feed and 26 for 2nd coil trigger. May need to mod your rev counter but mine was ok. You also remove the capacitor from ignition coil feed and connect 2 original coil leads together, but that's about all there is to it apart from removing old distributor cap and rotor arm and leads. The blanking cap for distributor is worth getting as well.
02-03-2013, 09:39 AM
#11
If you are not confident to solder in the ecu send it to msd to fit, then everything else is plug and play, a sub loom connects to the ignition amp plug and this has 2 plugs for dual ignition amps, a coil pack plug and a couple of wire to add to the ecu plug, think 21 for rev counter feed and 26 for 2nd coil trigger. May need to mod your rev counter but mine was ok. You also remove the capacitor from ignition coil feed and connect 2 original coil leads together, but that's about all there is to it apart from removing old distributor cap and rotor arm and leads. The blanking cap for distributor is worth getting as well.
Martin
02-03-2013, 11:12 AM
#13
Wahay!! I've lost my Virginity!!
Out of interest how much would yourselves charge to supply and fit one of these to my Sapp cossie?
02-03-2013, 04:22 PM
#16
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You don't need to move the phase sensor as the distributer blank cap you can get fits over the phase sensor. Unless of coarse you want to remove the distributor all together then that is when you need to machining as you need one of the cams extending with a trigger and the cam cover machineing to accept a sensor to pick up on the trigger, which in my opion is to much hassle.
Just fit the kit open your plug gaps back up and enjoy.
Just fit the kit open your plug gaps back up and enjoy.
02-03-2013, 04:49 PM
#17
You don't need to move the phase sensor as the distributer blank cap you can get fits over the phase sensor. Unless of coarse you want to remove the distributor all together then that is when you need to machining as you need one of the cams extending with a trigger and the cam cover machineing to accept a sensor to pick up on the trigger, which in my opion is to much hassle.
Just fit the kit open your plug gaps back up and enjoy.
Just fit the kit open your plug gaps back up and enjoy.
Steve
02-03-2013, 05:57 PM
#19
Wahay!! I've lost my Virginity!!
02-03-2013, 08:16 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
thanks for the info guys , and think i will get it when i get the off the shelf chip from msd and maybe get a deal on the two 
04-03-2013, 11:55 AM
#21
I can get my hands on a brand new dizzy , is the system still open to problems even if the ignition system is in tip top condition? Were they missfiring when new?
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
04-03-2013, 08:23 PM
#22
I can get my hands on a brand new dizzy , is the system still open to problems even if the ignition system is in tip top condition? Were they missfiring when new?
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
Someone more technical would have to elaborate but i just got pissed off chasing misfires around - after spending big on New motorsport leads, a few set's of plugs, every sensor under the bonnet ŁŁŁ, grp A coil the fucker was still there so i ripped the lot out and fitted WS and it's never had a single issue since 2009
04-03-2013, 08:56 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
I can get my hands on a brand new dizzy , is the system still open to problems even if the ignition system is in tip top condition? Were they missfiring when new?
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
Dont get me wrong i like the idea of WS but it seems alot of money especially when my car seems to run smooth anyway (could be better but loom is old)
04-03-2013, 09:18 PM
#24
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When brand new no obviously they wouldn't mis fire but how many of us cossie owners these days run absolutely standard power and therefore standard/low boost pressures which won't blow out a spark in a standard ignition system???
You go for more power and the increased boost pressures associated with higher power and thats when the standard system fails and mis-fires start which is the spark being blown out.
You go for more power and the increased boost pressures associated with higher power and thats when the standard system fails and mis-fires start which is the spark being blown out.
04-03-2013, 09:23 PM
#25
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Thread Starter
When brand new no obviously they wouldn't mis fire but how many of us cossie owners these days run absolutely standard power and therefore standard/low boost pressures which won't blow out a spark in a standard ignition system???
You go for more power and the increased boost pressures associated with higher power and thats when the standard system fails and mis-fires start which is the spark being blown out.
You go for more power and the increased boost pressures associated with higher power and thats when the standard system fails and mis-fires start which is the spark being blown out.
04-03-2013, 10:09 PM
#27
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Mines running a nms stage one gunship chip, as it is now its drive nice pulls very well and it reliable but its pulsing when idling and sometimes misfires and its boiling my p155, would I be able to get the wasted spark kit fitted to mine ? As someone said to me its only for stage 3 or big powered cars ???
05-03-2013, 10:20 AM
#30
Hi Guys,
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
- For starters there are no moving parts. (Rotor arm)
- There are no variable gaps. (Worn dist shaft means different voltages to every spark plug)
- There are no rubbing parts to wear away and lose voltage (rotor arm - carbon brush in distcap)
- There are no gaps to jump which loses a lot of voltage (rotor arm to cap)
- The king lead that had to do the job of all 4 HT leads is gone. (king lead)
- The alignment limitation for advance retard has gone. (rotor arm arc as it spins past dist segment)
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 05-03-2013 at 10:24 AM.
05-03-2013, 10:31 AM
#31
Last Time, Get Off PF FFS
Glad I got mine when I did then.
Your post would be great for a mag feature tech talk/tuning articles page
Your post would be great for a mag feature tech talk/tuning articles page
Last edited by kosienutter; 05-03-2013 at 10:35 AM.
05-03-2013, 09:25 PM
#34
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Thread Starter
Hi Guys,
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
- For starters there are no moving parts. (Rotor arm)
- There are no variable gaps. (Worn dist shaft means different voltages to every spark plug)
- There are no rubbing parts to wear away and lose voltage (rotor arm - carbon brush in distcap)
- There are no gaps to jump which loses a lot of voltage (rotor arm to cap)
- The king lead that had to do the job of all 4 HT leads is gone. (king lead)
- The alignment limitation for advance retard has gone. (rotor arm arc as it spins past dist segment)
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
lol
08-03-2013, 11:26 AM
#36
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
money well spent for me to,got pissed off trying to fix misfires.changing this checking that.got even more pissed of when i went to track days only to spend half the day flying about and the other chasing misfires.
10-03-2013, 05:32 PM
#38
stage4 2wd cosworth
Hi Guys,
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
Wasted spark is an absolute no brainer and I would have a Cosworth without one unless it was standard and I was running concourse.
The system is so much better than the antiquated mechanical spinning rotor arm and carbon brush system in so many ways.
- For starters there are no moving parts. (Rotor arm)
- There are no variable gaps. (Worn dist shaft means different voltages to every spark plug)
- There are no rubbing parts to wear away and lose voltage (rotor arm - carbon brush in distcap)
- There are no gaps to jump which loses a lot of voltage (rotor arm to cap)
- The king lead that had to do the job of all 4 HT leads is gone. (king lead)
- The alignment limitation for advance retard has gone. (rotor arm arc as it spins past dist segment)
This allows us to spend twice as long charging the coil between spark events, which means we have a MUCH better spark at the spark plug.
The biggest cause of poor ignition performance on the YB is the lack of charge time as the revs go up. This meant to maintain a spark we had to reduce the spark plug gap significantly in order to make sure the low voltage we had would make the jump. (The boost doesn't really blow sparks out guys... it just makes the cylinder pressure so high the spark cant make the jump as it hasn't enough voltage, so we either make the voltage higher / the gap smaller or the cylinder pressure lower... and we NEVER turn the boost down do we boys?! LOL)
On boost the decreased spark gap works to a point, although it does lead to quite high HC's (unburnt fuel) and often at idle, when combustion pressure is low, you end up with a fluffy idle misfire that just wont go away as the gap isn't big enough to correctly burn the fuel at such low combustion times.
One of the things a lot of owners say to me after fitment is "It sounds a bit more like a jap car at high revs now. Why?"
Well that signature fluffy, rough grunty sound the YB is famous for with big power and boost, is the sound of horrible combustion.
Wasted spark often picks up some good power at high revs and HC's come down from triple figures to double figures where they should be.
How many times have you guys sat at Santa Pod and watched a YB race a jap car and the YB be the only car with misfires and puffs of black badly or partially burnt fuel out the back?
The Japs have had wasted spark since the 70's. LOl
Think about this too...
There has not been a single mass produced car in the world manufactured since 1992 without wasted spark or coil on plug. This technology died over 20 yrs ago at best, and for most OE's, over 30 years ago, and for very good reason. Get rid of it.
All that said though, unless we find a solution to a problem we have right now of sourcing the connectors to interface the ign amp plug on the OE loom, there aren't going to be any more kits after we sell the last three in stock.
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