hi everybody this is my first post.
i fitted my mates water pump today on his 1992 4x4 sapphire cossie.
i removed the cambelt to make it easier and when retiming and fitting i didnt time up the aux pulley as i thought this was set by the ecu, but anyway this wouldnt of been a mile out.
after refitting and checking everything we started it up and i went for a quick run round the block, everything was cool, infact it was so cool i went for another quick run.
on the way back the car started missing and popping when the boost started coming in and then wasnt running well at all.
ive rechecked the timing and the crank and the 2 cam marks are perfect, i moved the aux pulley slightly so it matched the guide on this forum, and now it wont even start lol!!
now im not sure if its something that ive done or not.

there is a sensor screwed to the top of the standard intercooler, with 3 small pipes that go to the turbo/actuator, and 1 of these pipes has snapped off the plastci on the sensor so is not connected, ive forgot what this is called, does anybody know what would happen if 1 of the pipes was not connected?

i just hope tmmw goes better.
andy

 

sensor is an amel valve it controls how much boost you run,
when you say it was missing and popping was this at high revs? if so you was over boosting depending on how many times you let this happen you may have done some damage! which pipe has broken of i.e where is the other end connected?

 

As said you have, snapped either (C) Compressor outlet or (W) which goes to actuator, off the amal valve it's actually a solenoid, if only happening at high revs you are experiencing overboost protection as actuator cannot open wastegate but should drive fine off boost.

As for starting, the rotor arm should face number 1 on cap when engine is at TDC there is a pinhole in the dizzy which will be at this point as well.

Martin

 

thinking he may have done some damage as he says it wont even start now!!!

 

never took it to high revs, just basically took it round the block and built it up to probably 4000 revs max in 2nd gear.
the part of the valve that is broken is the part on the back side of it, the side that faces teh engine, from what i can recall the other 2 connections are on the left side of it.

 

it was running but as it started missing i removed the timing belt and put the aux puley in the correct position as on a diagram on here, the timing is correct im certain, its only since puting the aux pulley into the better position that it wont start.

 

Both need to be connected, from compressor and actuator if ones not then you have no boost control, if pipe comes off atmosphere outlet (R) then not to bad as all this does as standard was just connect to airbox.

Shouldent not make it start thats due to him mistiming the dizzy.

Martin

 

but since ive sat back and thought if it run perfect for say 2 miles and then suddenly started missing, then surely the timing didnt need touching and it was just my paranoia that made me recheck it.

 

check that the dissy is timed (the rotor should face a small notch on the dissy) chech the phase sensor inside the dissy that the wires haven't bared. also check that you haven't knocked the crank position sensor or disconected it!

 

can the ignition timing be out even if its lined up to the correct mark??
i can remember the older engines where we timed them by twisting the dizzy till the strobe light said it was optimum??
can these be done the same?
many thanks for the replies and help folks

 

no once all timing marks are set properly twisting the dissy makes no difference but i have seen aux pully spot on and dissy 90 degs out where its slipped or been removed at some point and not put back correctly! so where your timing the aux pully the dissy may well be out

 

No that was on cars with mechanical timing and vacum advance, Cosworth is under management so ignition timing is controlled by ECU, but the dizzy needs to be timed up with rest of engine otherwise spark won't be distributed properly. If it ran fine until you touched it then you can't have timed the Aux back with the engine.

Martin

 

what has boggled me is that it ran good for a quick run round the block, but then started missing, now after puting the aux pulley into the correct position it wont start lol
what damage could be caused by running with the damaged amel valve??

 

You diden't damage the crankshaft pulley did you?

Martin

 

ahh well a new day, hopefully i can get it all going again today.
thanks for the help , i iwll update in a whiule.
after having a good read about the amel valve, it sounds exactly like the symptons i was first getting before touching the aux pulley timing, when the boost came in it missed and popped.
what would be damaged by running with a pipe not connected to the amel valve.
there seems a lot of things that could go wrong with these engines, am i right lol??
but i can see where the addiction comes from, im having a pain with a cossie but im finding myself wanting and longing for one more and more lol.

thanks andy

 

At 4000 revs you won't have done any damage.
It's entirely possible that you have disturbed something else, fave are around there is the cps connector, try a wiggle test on it, one wiggles it while the other turns the key.
These connections can give mental problems with all manner of odd misfire symptoms.
Did you do a stat at the same time as the pump ?
tabetha

 

well, i retimed it today by removing the dizzy cap and lining the dot and line mark up.
started straight up yeehaa, other good news is that the snapped connector on the sensor just goes to the airbox.
the phase sensor rotor arm dizzy cap and leads are all new and so is the coil witch is an uprated one im told, its also had a new stat recently so i left it.
well it runs now but its down on power, it doesnt seem to boost like it should and im sure i can hear the wastegate letting boost out from 4k up.
im pretty sure the timing is perfect now, would having a cam out by 1 tooth make a big difference?
thanks again this site rules!!

 

yes!

has it got a boost gauge? what colour are the injectors? yellow?

 

Definately, otherwise it would have one less tooth....
Don't think the Amal valve has got anything to do with your issues though, and as you have stated you think it's the airbox side anway.
CPS or "Crank position sensor", and Phase sensor are NOTORIOUS to fcuk on all cossies, and being that a new CPS is only £20 i'd get one ASAP, since you say it's already got a new phase sensor on it.

 

good point, if you've been messing about with the dizzy it could well be the phase

the phase sensor is notorious for coroding the wires which give the exact symptoms described

another common one is plugging in the phase the wrong way, but i dont think it would run at all then!

 

the crank sensor needs a clean it looks a bit oily and messy.
its going to this roling road tmmrw -- http://www.john-sleath.com/services.htm
must say this place near doncaster looks very experienced.

 

check the phase sensor, inside the dizzy

what condition are the wires?

 

its brand new mate, looks like its not even covered 1000 miles
the injectors are yellow

 

Yes one tooth difference is crucial, check all four lugs on crank pully are good and clean, wont be missing any, or it woulden't run at all, make sure CPS gap is good.

We don't know spec of car, whats the actuator like as well? Defently make sure timing is perfect to avoid damage and thus could be causing boost problem.

Martin

 

when timing up , when it was all lined up really perfect, the cams lined up perfect, the belt didnt seem to slip over the cams very naturally at all, it always seemd half a tooth out to get the belt on, i think the right hand side cam ended up been like half a tooth out to get the belt on ok, itherwise the belt would be to slack and the timing would move out slightly anway upon tightening the tensioner.
if this makes sense to anybody?
its booked in for a good check and a r/r tmmrw at a realy cool looking place at conisbrough called john sleath.

 

well had it on the rollers today, it was runing very lean at the top end, and was only at 12 psi.
it made 140bhp at the wheels, estimated 180 at flywheel :-(
he reccomended changing the fuel pump and fuel filter.
then a few little things then get the boost back up to what it should be.

 

Despite what's already said, it will run with one lug missing it just won't fire the plug that lug relates to.
It's totally normal for the belt not to line up 100%, this happens more so after the head has been skimmed a lot as the head is a different distance away from the crank, those few thous can be seen on the belt, just take it to the one nearest it on the cams.
tabetha

 

phew, thats ok then, it was about a quater to half a tooth out, i ended up slightly moving the right hand cam to be able to get the belt on right.

the rollin road man said its running well lean at the top and that it could possibly need a new fuel pump, may try a rewire and new filter first.
any ideas?

 

Yes check voltage at pump under load should match alternator voltage, quite possibly be lower which is not good in which case needs a rewire, also check fans with same method, don't know about your car Tab but others certainly do not start after a lug has broken off as what happened a while ago here https://passionford.com/forum/techni...broke-off.html

Martin

 

when you say under load, do you mean revving the engine?

 

underload means driving the car along the road on boost, that's where the voltage at the pump is most critical

remeber its 20+ year old wiring, a must for all cossies is to rewire the fuel pump for a direct feed from the battery, easy to do

here's a diagram, should take no more than an hour - the hardest part is routing the cable!

i would taake the negative back to the battery too

 

thanks mate, where would you route the wiring? under the carpet, under the sill cover?
thansk andy

 

there's a gromit on the bulkhead by the battery, far rightside if your looking into the engine bay

that comes out in the dash but you can get to it, then under the kick panel, under the plastic sill covers behind the rear seat then into footwell

 

well its coming on nice now, the heater matrix was replaced yesterday, finished just as it started snowing, i bet hes loving the heat inside now!
i bet the fuel pump and wiring will make a big diference as the r/r showed it was running really lean up the top end.