cossie wont run after pulley lug broke off
30-12-2009, 12:20 AM
#1
cossie wont run after pulley lug broke off
Right long story short was driving the cos earlier today and thought i could smell something a bit funny but car seemed ok then when i was aproacing a set of lights and backed off the throttle the car pretty much stalled on me!! luckly was a petrol station just before lights so coasted it into there and from then on it wouldnt fire up.
The gfs boss came down but we couldnt get it running so towed it to his tuning place to try and see if we could fix it (no thanks to AA and RAC with their piss take recovery times!!) and after trying a few things and finding out only injector on cylinder one was pulsing rest wernt i looked at the crank pulley and noticed 1 of the lugs had broken off, then noticed the aux pulley retaining bolt was missing so guessing it must have fallen out and hit the lug. Her boss then welded on a new lug for me and we shaped it pretty much the same as the rest (size and distance etc) and was hoping it would fire up but..................no
Still only getting a pulse on injector no1 and none of the others
is there anything else that could have gone tits up from the lug breaking off?! crank sensor seems fine and was new, phase sensor is fine too.
Guess im gonna have to try another crank pulley just incase it is that and if poss get hold of another ecu to try as its a bit odd its pulsing on just 1 cylinder but wondering what else could have gone wrong, had a nice long wait for a recovery truck in the end as he didnt have the space to keep it there till next year doh!!
Oh well, nearly got to 500 miles after the rebuild :cry 
The gfs boss came down but we couldnt get it running so towed it to his tuning place to try and see if we could fix it (no thanks to AA and RAC with their piss take recovery times!!) and after trying a few things and finding out only injector on cylinder one was pulsing rest wernt i looked at the crank pulley and noticed 1 of the lugs had broken off, then noticed the aux pulley retaining bolt was missing so guessing it must have fallen out and hit the lug. Her boss then welded on a new lug for me and we shaped it pretty much the same as the rest (size and distance etc) and was hoping it would fire up but..................no
Still only getting a pulse on injector no1 and none of the others
is there anything else that could have gone tits up from the lug breaking off?! crank sensor seems fine and was new, phase sensor is fine too.Guess im gonna have to try another crank pulley just incase it is that and if poss get hold of another ecu to try as its a bit odd its pulsing on just 1 cylinder but wondering what else could have gone wrong, had a nice long wait for a recovery truck in the end as he didnt have the space to keep it there till next year doh!!
Oh well, nearly got to 500 miles after the rebuild :cry
30-12-2009, 12:25 AM
#2
Is the rev counter reading normally when you turn it over?
Have you checked all 3 of the others for spark?
Have you taken the dizzy cap off and checked that the rotor arm is rotating (given that the aux pulley had a problem, might indicate other issues, and thats not good when its the oil pump its turning!)
Have you checked all 3 of the others for spark?
Have you taken the dizzy cap off and checked that the rotor arm is rotating (given that the aux pulley had a problem, might indicate other issues, and thats not good when its the oil pump its turning!)
30-12-2009, 12:32 AM
#3
tbh not noticed the rev counter......
from memory the plugs were sparking but will have another look tomorrow, its been a long day
Didnt check if the rotor arm is turning or not so will check that also tomorrow but should be if its sparking to the plugs?, shouldnt have caused a problem that end thou as the timing was spot on and the pulley itself didnt fall off, but obviously worth a look in the morning
Also forgot to say the oil light goes out when its cranking, have got a pressure gauge in the car but unfortunatly not plumbed it in yet doh!! Have got a fuel pressure gauge wired up thou and its making a good 45psi on idle/cranking so its got pressure at the rail
from memory the plugs were sparking but will have another look tomorrow, its been a long day
Didnt check if the rotor arm is turning or not so will check that also tomorrow but should be if its sparking to the plugs?, shouldnt have caused a problem that end thou as the timing was spot on and the pulley itself didnt fall off, but obviously worth a look in the morning
Also forgot to say the oil light goes out when its cranking, have got a pressure gauge in the car but unfortunatly not plumbed it in yet doh!! Have got a fuel pressure gauge wired up thou and its making a good 45psi on idle/cranking so its got pressure at the rail
Last edited by Toe Knee; 30-12-2009 at 12:40 AM.
30-12-2009, 12:39 AM
#4
Phase sensor in the dizzy can effect injection.
How have you decide its only firing injector number one? by the smell of the plugs?
If its sparking on all cylinders, then like you say it must be turning anyway, you didnt mention having a spark on all cylinders in your first post though that I was replying to.
How have you decide its only firing injector number one? by the smell of the plugs?
If its sparking on all cylinders, then like you say it must be turning anyway, you didnt mention having a spark on all cylinders in your first post though that I was replying to.
Last edited by Chip; 30-12-2009 at 12:40 AM.
30-12-2009, 12:43 AM
#5
to start with it was only firing on 2 but we found 2 ht leads wernt as tight as they should be, think it eventually fired on all 4 but like i say mate tired now and has been a long day lol, i fitted a pulse light onto each injector multi plug and only no1 was lighting up the other 3 didnt when it was being cranked....
Could still poss be due to the crank pulley so first port of call is trying another but in theory should at least fire with the welded on lug as its pretty much spot on!
Could still poss be due to the crank pulley so first port of call is trying another but in theory should at least fire with the welded on lug as its pretty much spot on!
Last edited by Toe Knee; 30-12-2009 at 12:46 AM.
30-12-2009, 01:12 PM
#6
also if i try my mates 3door ecu (L1 on yellow injectors) will it at least fire up mine being an L6 running greys?! obviously not gonna drive or move it at all would just be to see if it starts on it to test if its my ecu thats fautly or not......
30-12-2009, 02:09 PM
#7
The aux pulley is timed, if the bolts came out it's probably mis timed now, hence knocking dizzy timing out, inside dizzy theres a pinhole the rotor arm should point to this at the same time the engine should be TDC.
Doubt it's ECU, but yes it would run but very badly as mapping would be totally different.
Martin
Doubt it's ECU, but yes it would run but very badly as mapping would be totally different.
Martin
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30-12-2009, 02:12 PM
#8
nah mate the timing is spot on checked it all and all timed up the aux pulley mark is still in the centre of the semicircle on the cover plat. first thing i checked!! as the pulley itself didnt come off or move it didnt affect the timing............
Not bothered about it running like shit just wanted to try another ecu to see what happened and not got an L6 to hand
Not bothered about it running like shit just wanted to try another ecu to see what happened and not got an L6 to hand
30-12-2009, 02:24 PM
#11
CPS is ok as you have a spark, also you have fuel pressure which shows pump to be working, you could check the phase sensor wiring it's not uncommon for the wires to break and short out, although should still run but will be rich as the injectors are not running seq injection.
Martin
Martin
30-12-2009, 02:27 PM
#12
doubt its the ecu either but its very strange that it now wont run just from having the crank sensor lug snap off, hence it is probably somethng else but dunno what. Main concern is why only injector no1 is getting a firing pulse but 2/3/4 arnt getting bugger all?! hence wondering if its ecu related....
Phase sensor wires look ok to me too, not really that old tbh but a friend says he might have another to try on there just incase
Phase sensor wires look ok to me too, not really that old tbh but a friend says he might have another to try on there just incase
30-12-2009, 03:25 PM
#19
Drop Stu a PM, he's the L6/L8 expert.
Im at a loss as to what other than the phase sensor could make 1 injector fire but not the others, unless because its not reading the crank lug correctly its somehow restarting the cycle all the time and ending up back on number 1, but that seems unlikely.
Im at a loss as to what other than the phase sensor could make 1 injector fire but not the others, unless because its not reading the crank lug correctly its somehow restarting the cycle all the time and ending up back on number 1, but that seems unlikely.
30-12-2009, 03:33 PM
#21
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you have checked the timing of the oil pump pulley/engine right??
there is an arrow on that pulley that is supposed to point at a mark on the engine, when the
bottom pulley is lined up and the cams pulley arrows are pointing at each other. ( IIRC)
as the pulley that had a bolt missing drives the dizzy, which triggers the phase sensor,, which is the one that controls the fuelling.
there is an arrow on that pulley that is supposed to point at a mark on the engine, when the
bottom pulley is lined up and the cams pulley arrows are pointing at each other. ( IIRC)
as the pulley that had a bolt missing drives the dizzy, which triggers the phase sensor,, which is the one that controls the fuelling.
Last edited by pee vee; 30-12-2009 at 03:35 PM.
30-12-2009, 03:40 PM
#22
yes mate as said, ive checked the timing a few times and its spot on!!!! even if the timing was slightly out the injectors should still at least pulse but 3 arnt!!! ( the timing mark on the pulley is lined up with the half moon on the aux cover plate as it was when i first timed the car up and had since driven just short of 500miles with few problems other than a slight hesitation when touching the throttle)
Like i say althou the bolt had come out the pulley itself hadnt moved at all and the timing mark on it is spot on and the rotor arm lines up with the timing mark on the dizzy casing at TDC.
Fortunatly it was stopped soon enough that the pulley didnt fall off from engine vibration!!
Like i say althou the bolt had come out the pulley itself hadnt moved at all and the timing mark on it is spot on and the rotor arm lines up with the timing mark on the dizzy casing at TDC.
Fortunatly it was stopped soon enough that the pulley didnt fall off from engine vibration!!
Last edited by Toe Knee; 30-12-2009 at 03:41 PM.
30-12-2009, 03:50 PM
#23
you have checked the timing of the oil pump pulley/engine right??
there is an arrow on that pulley that is supposed to point at a mark on the engine, when the
bottom pulley is lined up and the cams pulley arrows are pointing at each other. ( IIRC)
as the pulley that had a bolt missing drives the dizzy, which triggers the phase sensor,, which is the one that controls the fuelling.
there is an arrow on that pulley that is supposed to point at a mark on the engine, when the
bottom pulley is lined up and the cams pulley arrows are pointing at each other. ( IIRC)
as the pulley that had a bolt missing drives the dizzy, which triggers the phase sensor,, which is the one that controls the fuelling.
30-12-2009, 04:07 PM
#24
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i take it you have checked the gap on the cps as the bolt droping and snapping the lug off may have moved it,need's to be set with feeler gauge.
set this on the original lug then turn over with a socket on bottom pulley and check the clearance on the lug you welded,could be just picking up the signal from the lug you have welded.
set this on the original lug then turn over with a socket on bottom pulley and check the clearance on the lug you welded,could be just picking up the signal from the lug you have welded.
Last edited by chameleon; 30-12-2009 at 04:29 PM.
30-12-2009, 05:52 PM
#25
yep done all that mate still no joy, adjusted the clearance a couple times (know its between and 1mm) and it still doesnt work.
Obviously would benefit from trying a good crank sensor and crank pulley but dont have any to hand!!
it only pulsing on 1 cylinder is the strange thing so hoping someone would know what that is a sign of as have checked all the obvious things!! plus like i say it was using a proper pulse light on each injector plug not just me guessing lol
Obviously would benefit from trying a good crank sensor and crank pulley but dont have any to hand!!
it only pulsing on 1 cylinder is the strange thing so hoping someone would know what that is a sign of as have checked all the obvious things!! plus like i say it was using a proper pulse light on each injector plug not just me guessing lol
Last edited by Toe Knee; 30-12-2009 at 05:56 PM.
30-12-2009, 07:14 PM
#27
plugs are dry as fuck mate hence like i say 3 of the 4 injectors arnt being fired................
Goin over to my mums in a sec to find an old crank sensor to try, going by the lug being damaged never know might have damaged the sensor too, lugs seem ok to me.
Also gonna try my ecu in my mates 3door if the crank sensor doesnt work to see if its at least working, wont run properly but will at least try and fire!!
Goin over to my mums in a sec to find an old crank sensor to try, going by the lug being damaged never know might have damaged the sensor too, lugs seem ok to me.
Also gonna try my ecu in my mates 3door if the crank sensor doesnt work to see if its at least working, wont run properly but will at least try and fire!!
31-12-2009, 12:26 PM
#30
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think he's Brighton area iirc!
Tony, DONT think the L1 will work due to difference in map and the chip being different! If all the same spec then yea straight plug and go ONLY difference between L1 and L6 is the screw colour and the amount of memory ie L6 has more!
Tony, DONT think the L1 will work due to difference in map and the chip being different! If all the same spec then yea straight plug and go ONLY difference between L1 and L6 is the screw colour and the amount of memory ie L6 has more!
31-12-2009, 12:35 PM
#31
im down in worthing now but good memory mate lol, in theory if its the right chip in the ecu it should at least try and fire up?! gonna try an old crank sensor in a bit and see if that works, thn next guess i'll have to try another crank pulley
31-12-2009, 12:38 PM
#32
Your L6 instead of his L1 should fire all the injectors and all the plugs and at least sound like it wants to start more or less.
If its for different injectors or map sensor it might not run, but just seeing all plugs and injectors firing properly would be a start.
If its for different injectors or map sensor it might not run, but just seeing all plugs and injectors firing properly would be a start.
Last edited by Chip; 31-12-2009 at 12:39 PM.
31-12-2009, 02:08 PM
#35
well its deff not the crank sensor, still wont fire up but oddly after trying to crank it for a minute or so it backfired....... was doing that the other day come to think of it, also noticed u get a slight splutter every now and again when u turn the ignition off after trying to crank it?!
