Hello guy and girl.

I have built a zetec turbo using a 2.0 blacktop from a mk1 focus i will be using the mtx75 gearboxs the problem i want an ap clutch but a chap at burton power said they dont do a clutch and cover to fit the gearbox??

What would you d or have you dne??

Thanks for the help
Paul

 

I'm looking at using a cossie disc and a standard zetec cover in mine. Disc is the same diameter, not 100% sure yet if the cover will clear the plate hub yet.

 

keep me informed please.. as i really need somin

 

Better tell everyone with a Focus RS they haven't got a clutch after all.

3 different versions and all AP. Only issue is if your using a really early box with mechanical clutch actuation. Still waiting for someone to post the 'set-up' height on those to see what cover plate, with enough clamping force, might work.

Martin

 

OEM Focus RS clutch doesn't fit in a normal MTX75 though - been there, tried that, hit the bell-housing.

 

What do you mean by 'normal' MTX75? There are several different versions, even in the same MY.

I have had no clearance problems on any hydraulic MTX75 box with cable operation, originally used on 'blacktop' Mondeo or Focus (different casings). The earlier versions of these still use the 'rod' change castings, though they are machined for and use cable gear operation.

What part of the casing is fouled on your 'normal' box, differential, release cylinder....? I went through problems like this in fitting a Calibra Turbo clutch into a MT285, but managed it in the end. I also heard PE ended up with a puddle of gear oil with a standard Ford ST170 clutch and MT285. Never confirmed, but I suspect a pre 7/2003 box and post 7/2003 flywheel/clutch. Little difference make big problems.

Martin

 

Well, I would say non-RS boxes, but that wouldn't necessarily be accurate as I have only tested this package on an early non-hydraulic box. The cover fouls in the diff area and didn't appear to have enough meat in it for machining clearance. This was several years ago I looked at it and most likely have sketchy memory of it, at best!

 

So '92-'97 is normal and '97-'05 (possibly further) is abnormal.

As I said, the early MK2 Mondeo box still used a rod change casting (large oil capacity), but presumably the front gearbox/bell housing was changed to delete the mechanical clutch locations and add the hydraulic access.

As the differential didn't change, it seems strange that there was excessive internal clearance or that there was any reason to change the differential part of the casing as the 'normal' clutch is only a pressed steel cover. I would think the clearance problems were more likely to be with the mechanical clutch mechanism and its bearing points.

I run a FRS clutch in a '98 1.8 Mondeo box, which originally had only a 220mm clutch. The casings of the Focus have different transmission bosses to the Mondeo, but the same mechanicals and only slightly different hydraulics. Again, I've had no problem fitting FRS clutch into Focus 2.0 Ghia gearbox.

The Focus RS gearbox has (allegedly) better internals (though bearings are the same) and a Quaife ATB, but the casings are standard '02> Focus MTX75, though a gasket is used between the cases instead of silicon sealant. Perhaps greater distortion under repeated higher torque, though the diesel copes.

I'll admit I've not tried to fit a FRS clutch with a diesel, V6, etc MTX box, but as I've offered before, I'm willing to help any one trying to sort out an uprated clutch in any MTX75 or MT285 if they can supply set-up height as a start.

Martin

 

good i need your help then.. how can i tell which kind of box i have???

 

Wouldn't that have been an IB5 then?

 

the mtx isnt in a 1.8. as above

 

No, why should it be.

I don't know any Mk1/2 Mondeo's that used an IB5 or BC box (Even TIS and Haynes agree on that ). Its the input shaft that is the first consideration in fitment of a driven plate to a gearbox, not the plate diameter.

pa_sjo, your memory isn't too good. I believe we went through this a couple of months ago on this forum.

woolford, I'll PM you tomorrow to help your identification.

Martin

 

'We' didn't. You may have with the rest of the internet, but from a quick search on your previous posts I don't find anything that I was participating in.

My mistake on the IB5/Mondeo statement. My head is in Escort mode at the moment and clutch decision is quite pertinent to me at present.

Of course the input shaft configuration is the primary concern, there are a range of flywheels available for the zetec to accomodate both the IB5 and MTX75 with a variety of plate diameters.

With regards to your previous assumption on the FRS clutch and early boxes, I can assure you the issue was with cover hitting the inside of the casing.

 

I can now confirm that a standard cossie disc is a no-go on an early 240mm zetec setup.

 

Very surprised you though 'we' only meant your activve participation. We refers to all forum members. I would have thought given your interest in the subject you had at least read THIS topic even if you didn't post.

As to the 'assumption', I know you don't like pedants but accuracy is important; I didn't post any assumption. I merely stated my thoughts and logical reasoning on the subject, not an erronious statement of fact.

I'll admit I don't have any knowledge of the Escort version of the MTX, its flywheel diameter, and therefore starter PCD (but not the engine bolting pattern) which may have effected the internal contour of the bellhousing. However, having done a bit more research on the early hydraulic Mondeo MTX, I have found photos which clearly show the inside of the bellhousing. The lower bearing mounting is still there, but not machined and there is no indication of change to the differential intrusion.

So, as I think I'm running such a box, and they are so cheap, perhaps sourcing one of those might solve your issue of clearance for an AP coverplate?

Martin

 

Martin,

I'm fairly confident that if we stop clashing antlers and work together all clutch problems can be solved!

 

Could you give a bit more detail please? Dimensions would be very useful in perhaps offering alternative parts to work with it or at least know if it might fit a hydraulic set-up.

I was told quite categorically that there were no European sourced (cheap) clutches suitable for a Zetec/MT285, but quite easily, made a Vauxhall/Opel one fit.

Martin

ps. I gave up rutting after the (ex?)-wife booked a little operation for me 20 years ago.

 

I'll get measurements next time i'm at my workshop. What exactly do you need?

 

PM'd

 

would the rs focus clutch fit the 95 mrk1 mondeo with hydraulic box and the later 97 model mrk 2 both running mtx75's ,as when i was looking on ecat i found out that a 4x4 mondeo flywheel a std 2.0 mondeo,std 2.0 focus and last but not less rs focus all run the same flywheel so in feary the clutch from a rs should fit as long as there is clearence in the box

 

Yes your right, the flywheel fitted to the 2.0l Zetec has remained the same over its life from '92-05 (except for the ST170).

I'm running a FRS engine and clutch mated to an early hydraulic/cable Mondeo 1.8 MTX (see above) with the original slave cylinder, no problems.

pa_sjo is going to look at the mechanical clutch gearbox next time he's down his workshop,and make some measurements.

Martin

 

so you run a rs engined mondy sounds good m8 bet it is a right laugh
what power are you running ?
you said you are running the rs clutch to same that fits the mondy box and flywheel with out any problems ?

 

Its a standard FRS with air/air intercooler and MegaSquirt ECU. When mapping at TotD it returned 270ftlb and 235 bhp.

No problems at all on clearance or operation with the standard AP clutch and the '98 MTX box.

Main problem is traction in the first 3 gears. Fitted 225 tyres to improve that.

Martin

 

Interesting thread. Jano was getting back to me about this as he's fitted early MTXs I believe. I've just gone early MTX too so would like to know a definate answer.

 

Need to know if the clutch will go in to a mtx75 with hydraulic slave and rod driven not cable as the N reg 4x4 i have is rod driven not cable like the newer boxes

 

Tarmac Terriost

How much torque are you going to put through the 4x4. In general the transfer box of the RS2000/Mondeo '95 didn't/doesn't have a good reputation with tuned engines without some strengthening. No spares except what s/h you can get.

Has anyone used the Jaguar X type transfer box instead ?

Martin

 

hopefully 320/330bhp with about 300ibft torque max
was told by one of the ford techs at work the mondeo 4x4 used the same internals as the 4x4 cossie just the casing that are different might have a word with bernie see if he does any upraded bits if i have a problem, the box its self should be good for 360bhp seen that on a focus zetec turbo that performance 3000 with no atb diff etc hate to think of the torque steer and traction problems lol thank god for 4x4 and traction control mondy should be sweet belief it as a lsd rear diff too,the car handles so well cant wait to get the project up and running and getting bits and bobs if a std rs clutch will fit and is up to the job i will be happy chappy

 

Well the MT75 does share the dimension between shafts of 75mm with the MTX.....but for a start the MT, being initially a RWD box has 3 shafts not 2. Also it doesn't have the complication of several shafts inside each other and turning the drive thru 90 degrees.

I know there was a turbo RS2000 in the 'comics' that had its transmission breathed on by CTS.

As I said in the PM, its torque that kills our boxes, rarely power, but yes, the rating of MTX and what gives up is reasonably well known.

Whats the TC system on the '95? If its via the EEC-IV will it still work once you change the management for the turbo?

Martin

 

escort flywheel,mtx rs2000 box,
part nos are-friction plate-helix-764667
-pressure plate-helix-602723.
got theses from a clever lady called mandy at mardigras motorsport in silverstone,give them a call,she will suit release bearing to suit,mines has been no trobel.
hop this helps

Wul

 

Wul,

True, but isn't that the 220mm clutch and 1.8 flywheel for the XR3i (same as the 1.8 Mondeo)? What torque is it good for?

What is the setup height of the mechanical clutch? I know I keep repeating myself, but it would be good if someone can give the answer so we can compare it to a hydraulic clutch.

Martin

 

Can you change a cable change box to a rod linkage?

And can you change the hydraulic to a standard cable easily enough?

 

Jano's been doing this for years.. I had my MTX box fitted by him into my S2 over 5 years ago. The same box is still in the car running 280bhp getting abused regular on tracks.

Why not just ask him instead of guessing or just get on his website.
www.oddkiddcreations.co.uk

The amount of decent and useful advise i have got from there is second to none!

He has clutch off the shelf for the setup and also drve shafts 2 piece or 3 piece also mounts and linkages.

Laters.

 

Doing what ??

In summary, the thread originally started with a query about a clutch for a Focus. As a cable/hydraulic MTX, I think we all agree, as a start, a FRS will fit, but no obvious non-AP is known.

There is also still a question mark around a mechanical operated 240mm clutch in an MTX.

wul young has contributed that uprated Helix 220mm mechanical operation clutches will work (using a 1.8 Zetec-E flywheel I think).

....and I'm still asking what's the set-up height of a mechanical clutch ?

Martin

 

Hi, just though I'd jump in here with another MTX transplant question:

I am fitting a Focus RS gearbox into my MK3 Fiesta which has a 2.3 Duratec HE-Turbo engine, as it's a Duratec I'm using Mondeo MK3 2.0 bellhousing and a SPEC stage 3 clutch.

Now the problem, I was going to keep the electronic speedo sensor and use Focus clocks (as I did in my last Fiesta project) but the circuit that I designed to run the clocks didn't work to plan so I'm keeping the Fiesta RST clocks and using the speedo cable - what's involved in retro-fitting the Escort RS2000/XR3i 130 speedo drive gear into the box?

 

I can't see it being possible TBH. Whereas the early cable/hydraulic MTX casings still had the castings for the speedo drive (as with the rod/mechanical) just not machined, the next series of boxes (with a lower oil volume) had all these legacy parts deleted.

As the gearbox front/bellhousing your using is later still I can't see there being anything to machine (that would be difficult enough anyway) for a mechanical speedo drive.

I don't know if they have changed it further, but on all the Mondeo Mk2, Focus boxes they replaced the speedo worm gear on the diff with a metal/plastic pickup wheel for the hall-effect sensor. The MT285 (ST170) box doesn't have any pickup wheel; the sensor just 'reads' the teeth on the crownwheel.

Martin

 

Cheers for the quick reply Martin (and sorry for hijacking this thread everyone else!). I'll just keep the standard Focus/Mondeo Vehicle Speed sensor then and either have a go at getting the FRS clocks to work again using a Focus ECU/GEM etc or go with a aftermarket dash.

Thanks again, Jim.

 

Hi , sorry to but in. Just need to know if anyone knows where I can get a set of brackets to fit the RS focus brembo calipers to a Mk2 Mondeo??? Thanks in advance ,one frustrated mondy owner

 

a good engineer should be able you make you some

 

The dimensions of the mountings on the MK2 knuckle are virtually the same as the Focus ST170 (3mm difference axially made up by spaces when doing the 300mm conversion). This link has dimensions of brackets for a ST170 to FRS conversion.

http://www.focusowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21828

But demonstrates its not quite as simple as it might seem as there are clearance problems between the disc and lower ball joint.

IIRC, Zoo Motorsport did conversion brackets for Escorts. The bolt centres are the same (but 10mm) & axial difference is even greater, but they should be able to make adjustments to their design.

Martin

 

Thanks Martin
This helps alot, The disc size of the rs focus is 328 mm though and the Hi-spec I have fitted now are 330mm but I will contact zoo motorsport and see what they have to say. Thanks again mate.

Richie