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Old 14-01-2010 | 09:04 PM
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Default Dealing with Depression

Hi all bit of a heavy topic, but i'd like peoples experiences on what happens when you visit the Doctors for the first time, when you're diagnosed and treatments available.

Been trapped in what I can only describe as a dark room with no windows for years. Months on end of being full of self hate, telling myself I'm not good enough, snapping at people and generally wanting to be left on my own, lack of energy and motivation to do the things I enjoy and constant negative thoughts about myself even when things are going good for me.
Really should of admitted it to myself along time ago that Ive got a problem, and it wasn't the normal 'feeling down' that most people get from time to time.
I've let it rule my life for too long now and I'm sick of being the happy, smiling person I am around people, then crumbling to pieces when I'm on my own and being left locked in the dark room with no real vision of the future.
I've finally admitted it to myself after I let it wreck what could of been the best thing in my life in a long time. Thankfully I wasn't able to hide warning the signs from her and she recognised them as she had an ex go through it. If anything its made me realise I need to regain control of my life before I lose anything else to it.

So this is where I am at the present time. Although I'm scared of what the future holds, I know I will get better and get my life back to some sort of normality.

Sorry for the rambling post, just really needed to get it off my chest as I've only spoken to two people about it.

Thanks in advance in for any advice.

Rob.
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:09 PM
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Your making the right step in confronting it hun

get yaself along to your doctor and they will ask you some questions, and if the same as mine will give you a questionnaire which will ask questions about how you do and have felt etc it is these answers that will help the doctor to decide on the best way to go forward with you. Whether it be through medication or councelling or both!

As i say tho...you are doing the best thing for yourself by admitting the way you feel and wanting to do something about it! Depression is not a nice thing to deal with and i have suffered with it from around the age of 12 .. so i know what your going through and how your feeling! Do the best for yourself and see your doctor, they will help you!

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Old 14-01-2010 | 09:19 PM
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good on you to come out here and speak about it mate and do the best thing for you and go speak to your doctor sooner rather than later
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:19 PM
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If you are smoking weed stop now, it will only make it worse. Not taking the piss but it does fuck you up after a while.

Wehn you go to Dr's push for CBT rather than just anti-depressants as that will start to treat the cause and help you in the longer term.

Good luck.
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:21 PM
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Don't expect tablets to be a magic overnighter,they take time and you may have to try different doses of different tablets.I gave up on them tbh.People don't actually realise what goes on sometimes.The worst thing for me is when people say "whats up with you you miserable c*nt" and half the time I feel reasonably ok.
I am now 37 and have suffered with depression since I was about 13.I do have an hereditary illness that I was diagnosed with at 21,there is no cure and depression is a part of the illness.I know all to well about the shutting off/away side.It is hard to deal with,the doctors nowaday are far better than they used to be and they will send you for counseling and sometimes it can work.Good luck and try to keep your head up.
Try to do thigs you love doing as much as possible,it helps me.If I used to spend a couple of hours on my motocross bike or in my cosworth and I am a different person . . . untill the next day.
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:22 PM
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It's not easy to come out and tell people this, there are many forms of depression and many causes, so really, you need to find the root of your own.

Speaking to the doctor, or indeed a face to face conversation with anyone who isn't close to you is usually easier. I know its difficult too, but don't bottle anything up, if you feel like a good cry, do it and let your doctor know the feelings you are experiencing.

It's always a quick fix for doctors to go handing out anti-depressants, and although I wouldn't ever tell anyone that they don't help, they aren't right for everyone and it's usually a case of "suck it and see".

Don't hide yourself away from people, get out and about and do things, other than sitting inside and dwelling on stuff. Get yourself a new hobby, something that will divert your mind from your troubles.

Sometimes you just need to stand up straight, look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you can sort yourself out, but as I say, you need to find the root of what is making you feel the way you do. Then you can start to help yourself.
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:34 PM
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Mate, im currently on anti depressants. long story short, 1st of april last year, wor lass left me and took the kids, i came home to an empty house. looking at it now, id have done the same if i was her, i wasnt doing the rite thing by her or the kids, id smoked weed for 13 years, everyday, and wasnt being a good partner or father. i spoke to her, she said she didnt want to leave, but it was unbearable, so i decided to stop smoking weed that day, keeping it short, she came back with the kids, happy days. well, for the first few weeks everything was hunky dory, but i was feeling very low, i put it down to stopping smoking weed, so just got on with it. well 6-8 weeks later, id got progressively worse, and had got to the point where i couldnt see a point anymore, in anything. talked to a few mates, they were telling me, go to the doctors, tbh, i was embarrassed to do that, not the type of thing a 'man' wants to do, tell a doctor you feel like ending it all. well after being told by pretty much everyone i know, its nothing to be ashamed about, i finally bit the bullet and went to the docs, told her everything, from stopping smoking weed, wor lass leaving me, feeling like i had no point in life, the whole 9 yards. she gave me a questionnaire to fill in while i was there. it was scored out of 28, i got 24, she said, 'your suffering from sever depression'. she gave me anti depressants. they took about 6-8 weeks to get into my system, so its not an instant cure, but once you get them into your system, they really do help. as i said, im still on the now, im not ashamed to admit, as i am know a LOT better for it, i dont mind popping one pill a day, as it keeps me on the straight and narrow, im happy. its better for me, my family, and friends, because before i started taking them, i was a nightmare to be around, i was paranoid, anxious, low, had no energy, couldnt be bothered with anything, felt i was a waste of time and a lost cause, it was torture.

Get yourself down the doctors asap, there is a way forward mate, i know you probs cant see it, and feel like there is no way out, but there is.


Im no expert, but if you want to send me a pm and talk in private, feel free.

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Old 14-01-2010 | 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bigchez
If you are smoking weed stop now, it will only make it worse. Not taking the piss but it does fuck you up after a while.

Wehn you go to Dr's push for CBT rather than just anti-depressants as that will start to treat the cause and help you in the longer term.

Good luck.
i totally agree,i used to like a good smoke and when i fell to pieces last year i went to the doctor and just told her the absoloute truth,she asked my wife too leave the room and asked me some more then advised me too stop smoking weed (which wasnt easy) and put me on medication,
from that day to this,and im still on the medication,i havent looked back and totally changed around the way i feel.
it hasnt been easy but ive had the support of my doctor and wife,i hope you have she same and you will get past this.

good luck too you and your a brave person posting on here,thats a good start
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:43 PM
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Don't play with Cossie's, they'll cause heart attacks as well as depression

As has been said before, I deal with a lot of residents who suffer from severe depression. Medication can only work so far, do not rely on them. You need to occupy your head with something fun and easy going.
Old 14-01-2010 | 09:47 PM
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im going through this now,went to the docs on tues and yold her i was a crumbling wreck,feel exactly the same as you do,stop in on me own all the time,smoking weed and drinking every night,you need to give weed up,im trying now and its hard.

completly lost interest in my saff and seeing my mates,which is another thing you need to do,try and stay focused and change your routine a bit,i had a massive panic attack in the supermarket yesterday,but had to stick through it,even though ive been in the supermarket a million times i started getting a massive feeling off dread,ive just started tablets and im looking to change my job because thats affecting me i think,but defintely give up weed and hang out with people,dont sit in on your own pondering,thats when things get worse,i started looking at suicide websites,then when i realised i had a problem and needed help.
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:00 PM
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You have taken the first step by admitting you have a problem

I can't offer any advice but just wish you good luck

Steve
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:01 PM
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Reading through the posts i see a common link to weed

Steve
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:07 PM
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Glad someone else said it

Why do you bother boys, isn't alcohol, dirty women and cars enough of a thrill? Seriously!
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cossie4i
Reading through the posts i see a common link to weed

Steve
There's a reason why it's illegal.


Anyway, hope it works out for you, can't really give advice 'cuz i'm not a doctor
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:09 PM
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im not blaming mine on weed,its a few factors,work,loneliness,my living situation,and breaking up with my ex,i used weed and beer to get out of it,when i should have been seeing my mates or sorting my car like
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:11 PM
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No one's blaming ya pal, but you have to realise that's a really big cop out with reprocutions. The fact you realise its not good for you is a really good thing. Stick with your friends man
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:14 PM
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i dont know about anyone else but shagging and drinking while high is amazing,if you never done it you wont understand like but thats why its addictive a guess,using weed and feeling awesome and chilled out makes it a hard thing to give up.
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by COCHYN
No one's blaming ya pal, but you have to realise that's a really big cop out with reprocutions. The fact you realise its not good for you is a really good thing. Stick with your friends man
yeah man im getting out with me mates again,hard thing is keeping them out the pub
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:17 PM
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Nah, that's fun, its just when you start lowering your standard and taking home the local hippo grockle moon pig is when it get's really bad....not done it myself though
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:21 PM
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im just txting one now

good job im not high or drunk or id be down there givin her one
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:24 PM
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i drank through mine, border line alcoholism for about 8 months. It was only when a good friend took me to one side in the pub and expressed her deep concerns for me and was really worried about me. I then took a step back and thought "fuck, I gotta sort this out". It takes time but you will once again fall in love with the things that made you happy before.
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:30 PM
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As above; you have done very well in confronting the issue

If you need to talk to somebody mate, I work for Social Services dealing with Mental Health and fully understand the situation so if you need to let any steam off just drop us a PM and I will do what I can
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:47 PM
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Just got to say a massive thanks for all the replies and offers of advice.

It feels like a massive weight has been lifted off my shoulders to able to admit that I've got a problem, feels like there is a future out there for me. Next step is go see my Doctor. Just trying to research as much about it as I can to help me understand it.
Really don't know the root cause of mine, I don't smoke weed or have ever done drugs. I just know I've got progressively over the last year to point of 2 days ago when I just broke down and admitted it to someone and myself.

Mixed views above on taken antidepressants. I'm really not keen on the idea of them and would prefer to try counseling first. That's one of my fears about going to the Doctors, I don't want to be just chucked a prescription and sent on my way.

Thanks again

Rob
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:55 PM
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you wont be chucked a prescription mate,incase you od,i had a meeting with the crisis team and ive got meetings with a agency called turning point to talk through my drink and drug problem,ive got to go back my doctor sat morning and then she''k decide wheter to put me on tablets or not,ive got sleeping pills aswell because im not sleeping a lot.
Old 14-01-2010 | 10:55 PM
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Don't be fobbed off fella - I know it takes a lot of courage to go and see the quack so you may as well do all you can while you are there. Ask about all the services available in your area and get referrals there and then if you can.
Old 14-01-2010 | 11:32 PM
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Dre.1984

I can understand how you are feeling, I've felt exactly the same things for years.

I myself have no motivation to do anything, am constantly pissed off, have no confidence in myself, feel there's no point in anything etc.......

My doctor is a complete waste of space, arrogant prick who basically doesn't think that there is anything wrong with me and says that 'it's only yourself that can make yourself feel better'. Gee.........thanks for that excellent help!! I think I was in the room no longer than 2 minutes, just wasn't interested in anything I had to say.

I've tried talking to my friends but they don't really seem interested and just change the subject when I try to talk to them.

Basically the only option I have is to put up and shut up and try to sort myself out.

I know this probably doesn't help you out much, if at all, but this is just my own personal experience.

Hope you get everything sorted mate.
Old 14-01-2010 | 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchen Devil
Dre.1984

I can understand how you are feeling, I've felt exactly the same things for years.

I myself have no motivation to do anything, am constantly pissed off, have no confidence in myself, feel there's no point in anything etc.......

My doctor is a complete waste of space, arrogant prick who basically doesn't think that there is anything wrong with me and says that 'it's only yourself that can make yourself feel better'. Gee.........thanks for that excellent help!! I think I was in the room no longer than 2 minutes, just wasn't interested in anything I had to say.

I've tried talking to my friends but they don't really seem interested and just change the subject when I try to talk to them.

Basically the only option I have is to put up and shut up and try to sort myself out.

I know this probably doesn't help you out much, if at all, but this is just my own personal experience.

Hope you get everything sorted mate.
That's not good mate, You tried a different GP?
I know where your coming from with your mates. Ive not told them yet but I know they wont be supportive. Its just ingnorance at the end of day, but then again everyones guilty of that. Me included by brushing this aside for so long.
Old 15-01-2010 | 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitchen Devil
Dre.1984

I can understand how you are feeling, I've felt exactly the same things for years.

I myself have no motivation to do anything, am constantly pissed off, have no confidence in myself, feel there's no point in anything etc.......

My doctor is a complete waste of space, arrogant prick who basically doesn't think that there is anything wrong with me and says that 'it's only yourself that can make yourself feel better'. Gee.........thanks for that excellent help!! I think I was in the room no longer than 2 minutes, just wasn't interested in anything I had to say.

I've tried talking to my friends but they don't really seem interested and just change the subject when I try to talk to them.

Basically the only option I have is to put up and shut up and try to sort myself out.

I know this probably doesn't help you out much, if at all, but this is just my own personal experience.

Hope you get everything sorted mate.
The doctor is right, the only person that can make you better is yourself..... however, he should have pointed you in the right direction as there is help you can seek.

As for seeking help in friends.... a true friend would listen.

Originally Posted by Dre.1983
That's not good mate, You tried a different GP?
I know where your coming from with your mates. Ive not told them yet but I know they wont be supportive. Its just ingnorance at the end of day, but then again everyones guilty of that. Me included by brushing this aside for so long.
The best support you can get is from the groups that are set up to help people like yourselves with depression.

When you visit your GP ask for any groups in your area that you could go to see - again, it's a big step.... but trust me, they are there to help.

Either that or have a look around the net.

http://www.depressionalliance.org/ho...elp-groups.php

just a suggestion, it could help.
Old 15-01-2010 | 02:35 AM
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you will likely have to wait ages on NHS for counselling as they are overloaded. long term psychotherapy has an even longer waiting list and has a high threshold so they only help the more severely depressed. even a suicide attempt doesnt garuntee psychotherapy!

most NHS areas run a simple 6 session CBT course for mild mental distress and its usually qouted at "up to" 6 months waiting time.

Antidepressants only help rectify the chemical imbalance and not the reasons why. some people with genetic based depression will be on them for life as its a permenant chemical imbalance, most people have depression for a reason, be it major life events or a culmination of things over years so you shouldnt be on them too long.

Most SSRI's take 6 weeks to begin to work and unless the side effects are seriously harmful then keep with them for the 6 weeks as many people find the effects fade. most modern anti-d's are designed to be very hard to o/d on so dont bother!

While on anti-ds keep off drugs and booze. most drugs and especially alcohol are a central nervous system depressant so actually make you more depressed which is the last thing someone whos depressed needs! Also booze will cancel out the good effect of the anti-ds.

As been said ultimately you need to work out whats wrong and why and then fix it. no one can fix you, but they can give you the knowledge to help you to fix yourself.

The hardest bit after admitting the problem is to actually change something. its too easy when youve no energy or motivation to just procrastinate. Set your self up to do things, force yourself to be around happy people etc. set yourself goals and make it so its easier to do it than not! Eg arrange to go out mates or something but get them to come round yours for a drink first. helps on 2 fronts as you have to tidy house a bit and also if your mates come to you then its very hard to get out of going out! I used to be a really bad self harmer so i would wear short sleeves so i cant cut then cos if you do people notice, you get a world of shit and questions, the shrink throws a wobbly etc so it forced me to deal with things in a better way!

The easiest way to get counselling is via a charity such as mind. its quicker than nhs, often free and also has the benefit of the person you are talking to has similar experiences so understands. most work on the CBT model of therapy although increasingly people are combining it with mindfulness techniques. I co-ordinate group therapy sessions for a local charity i volunteer at and group sessions are very good once youve got over initial nerves as theres more people with different experiences so a greater wealth of knowledge and more ideas. Most people learn its easy to advise others and often they know ways of helping them but struggle to turn the same ideas inwards.

Dont expect to get well overnight. theres no magic pill cures. it takes a long time to get unwell so it will take a while to get better.
Old 15-01-2010 | 02:47 AM
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hi,i wasnt depressed but went ecently through and am still in a horrible life changing experience,didnt sleep well or eat for 2 weeks,went to the docs and got sleeping tablets,i was feeling very low,everybody gives you advice but you have to figure out whats good for you,for me socialising,walking,getting out of the house sorted me out,you cant help thinking the worst when you are the low but for me i stopped worrying as that wasnt doing any good and got on with things and stopped taking the sleeping tabs.
Old 15-01-2010 | 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dre.1983
Hi all bit of a heavy topic, but i'd like peoples experiences on what happens when you visit the Doctors for the first time, when you're diagnosed and treatments available.

Been trapped in what I can only describe as a dark room with no windows for years. Months on end of being full of self hate, telling myself I'm not good enough, snapping at people and generally wanting to be left on my own, lack of energy and motivation to do the things I enjoy and constant negative thoughts about myself even when things are going good for me.
Really should of admitted it to myself along time ago that Ive got a problem, and it wasn't the normal 'feeling down' that most people get from time to time.
I've let it rule my life for too long now and I'm sick of being the happy, smiling person I am around people, then crumbling to pieces when I'm on my own and being left locked in the dark room with no real vision of the future.
I've finally admitted it to myself after I let it wreck what could of been the best thing in my life in a long time. Thankfully I wasn't able to hide warning the signs from her and she recognised them as she had an ex go through it. If anything its made me realise I need to regain control of my life before I lose anything else to it.

So this is where I am at the present time. Although I'm scared of what the future holds, I know I will get better and get my life back to some sort of normality.

Sorry for the rambling post, just really needed to get it off my chest as I've only spoken to two people about it.

Thanks in advance in for any advice.

Rob.
Well you have took the 1st big step in admitting there is a problem , the missis has suffered well we have all suffered as a family from this for id say 6 years now ever since the daughter was born and she is 8 in feb. She did not think there was anything wrong but she was not on the outside of the bubble , in the end after a said event one night i just had to get physical with her put her in to the car drag her through a full doctors waiting room kicking and screeming and get her to sit down and spill the lot. She is on the pills now and as i can see will be for a long time to come but she is so called normal now with nagging and will you pick that up ect ect yea yea. So in summery get yourself to the docs they will sort you out and in a month or 2 you will be feeling loads better good luck.

Last edited by packman; 15-01-2010 at 07:43 AM. Reason: adding text.
Old 15-01-2010 | 08:26 AM
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i suffer from depression mate and i took an overdose just before xmas as everything around me was falling down i landed myself in the hospital for 3 days,and through all that ive realised its ur close friends you need the most and a goal to motivate yourself. Ive been to the docs in the past and imo the people who you talk to shouldent be doing that job unless they have been through something like it themselvs they just seem to talk shit and look down on you and try and stay away from any tablets because they just mask the problems (thats only my experience everyone is different) but u have taken the biggest step now , i hope everything works out for you mate

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Old 15-01-2010 | 08:37 AM
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Mate in 2008 my family didnt want much do to with me because everytime we spoke it ended in a argument. Early last year I realised I had the issues not them, saw my gp got reffered to a counsellor then put on zoloft had been on it 6 months as of christmas. This christmas I had my whole family at my house and had a great day. Seeing that doc literally changed my life.
Old 15-01-2010 | 08:57 AM
  #34  
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some good advice here imo.

I've had some anxiety/depression issues before and am pleased to say i've come out the other side of them feeling a happier, stronger and healthier person.

get down the doctors and answer his/her questions as honestly as possible.
stop the weed - it won't help.
stop the boozing - that definitely won't help.

Unless your replies to the questions indicate that you are very seriously depressed, the doc will probably tell you to stop the smoking and drinking, get some excercise and try to do at least one thing a week that makes you happy.... e.g. catch up with old friends etc. then come back in 6 weeks or so.

If you're still feeling that bad after the 6 weeks (or whatever period is recommended) then you may find that you're prescribed something - in my case they were primarily to help me sleep but also a mild anti-depressant - and referred for some counselling.

I have to agree with bigchez on this one... i tried more traditional style counselling where you just talk about stuff but didn't find it to be much help. However, I went to see a guy in Harley st (thank fuck for medical insurance!) for CBT and it was superb. It really shows you the errors in your thinking and helps you approach what previously may have seemed to be an insurmountable problem in a logical and positive manner. I must admit, the effectiveness of CBT really surprised me and it has made a huge huge difference to my everyday life.

I guess it's differernt for everyone, but as has already been said, realising/admitting you have a problem is a major step in the right direction... so don't hang about - act on it and get down the docs asap. The sooner you do the sooner things should start improving for you!
Old 15-01-2010 | 09:00 AM
  #35  
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by the way - one other thing to bear in mind is that it's certainly not uncommon to suffer form anxiety or depression.
according to the doc that did my CBT 1 in 4 people will suffer with depression at some stage in their life, so you're certainly not alone!
Old 15-01-2010 | 09:19 AM
  #36  
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I feel for you there as I also suffer withthe same thing

It is a bit of a nightmare especially when you sit there in front of a a pack of 100 strong pain killers and think that they will ease the pain once and for all!

I think the worse bit you have actually passed and that was to admit to yourself that you do have a problem and that problem is/could be depression. That is the best start for you, it was for me.

I saw the quack and she gave me a test there and then, that I scored 22 points on (I think it was) which put me in a group for the depression. She gave me some tabs and sent off to see a mental health specialist. In about 3 days he called me to make an appointment (was very quick). The shrink wasn't a great experience and I came away feeling it was an utter waste of time. He pulled funny faces at some of the answers about how I was feeling. I thought that you bloody asked me and so I told you

Anyway the tabs were crap and made me feel sick, dizzy, unable to talk and walk properly and generally pretty lousy. I stopped them straight away and saw my proper quack. He gave me something else called Citalpram (I think there the ones). These seemed to work wonders without actually feeling that I was taking something. I had no side effects and they were working. The next test I scored 21 points still high but coming down. 3 month later my test results were at 16, which was in the medium level. I stopped taking the tabs (on my own back) and I am not doing too bad atm. Just recently feeling like I could kill myself again and that the whole world is on my shoulders and I wouldn't be missed if I just went out and drove as fast as I could in to a wall or something harder I have no get up and go as it seems to of got up and gone a long time ago.

I have been out of work since May last year and can see not much hope of me getting another job in the near future. I still see myself as being at the bottom of the food chain and I have no self confidence in my life what so ever. I have a girlfriend who seems to be supportive now! She wasn't and that made things very hard to cope with and I have 2 boys that also depend on me.

I hope that what you do and what ever you take (if anything) helps you out no end and remember there is allways someone there that loves you and will help you to the best they can


Sorry about the wee essay
Old 15-01-2010 | 09:30 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Kitchen Devil
Dre.1984

I can understand how you are feeling, I've felt exactly the same things for years.

I myself have no motivation to do anything, am constantly pissed off, have no confidence in myself, feel there's no point in anything etc.......

My doctor is a complete waste of space, arrogant prick who basically doesn't think that there is anything wrong with me and says that 'it's only yourself that can make yourself feel better'. Gee.........thanks for that excellent help!! I think I was in the room no longer than 2 minutes, just wasn't interested in anything I had to say.
The first doctor I saw said pretty much the same thing to me. Then a week later I saw a different doctor and she was the one that agreed with me and done the first test. After about a month of beeing on the tabs I had to go back to the doctors as I also suffer with Gout and needed some more tabs for that. I saw the first doctor again who dismissed the depression as nothing and he was so sincere and seemed really friendly and helpfull. He must of read my notes from the last month or so pmsl
Old 15-01-2010 | 09:39 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by rax2wdrax
The worst thing for me is when people say "whats up with you you miserable c*nt" and half the time I feel reasonably ok
Its a breath of fresh air to hear that from someone else. Thats plagued me for years and years.
Old 15-01-2010 | 10:06 AM
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reading what people have said makes me think i need to think over a lot of things aswell
Old 15-01-2010 | 10:14 AM
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Depression is really horrible. I have a friend who is bipolar (the new word for manic depressive). He's either on a massive high, with big ideas and plans, confident and on top of his game, or he's crashed in a sea of despair, locked in his room and unable to function.

Daily drugs are OK but what really helps him is therapy - sharing his day to day challenges with a cognitive behavioural therapist. He manages a much more normal life with therapy - the highs are manageable and the lows are not so crushing.

The sad thing about depression is that it is very difficult to witness from the outside. He was a good friend but is very difficult to keep in contact with.

Seek help. You have a disease.


Charlie


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