Hi all,

Fitted my MS2 yesterday, every thing seems to work EXCEPT i have no RPM signal when i crank the car,

This evening i will put a scope on the CPS output to make sure its not the cps or wiring.

I am using the fiesta RST flywheel.

Any ideas on what trigger setting i should be using, the timing BTDC etc, (a screen shot would be really handy!)

Where should i start fault finding after i have checked CPS output?

Cheers

Rob,

 

is there no rpm on dash or megatune / tuner studio.

try swapping the crank sensor pins around. think I've heard of that causin no rpm signal. are you edis or direct ?

 

No RPM on tunerstudio/mega tune, rev counter will be off coil drive,

Im directly driving the coil pack, the cps is wired the correct way round according to the extraEFI site, but it wouldn't be difficult to try wiring the other way round.

Cheers


Rob,

 

These are my current trigger setting, which i think are correct...?

Either way, would a wrong tooth1 angle still mean no RPM signal?

Rob,

 

thats the same settings as i've got in mine i'd check the cps wiring or your cps is to far from flywheel to pick signal up

 

Settings are correct, the MS wiring diagrams conflict with one another (extraefi.co.uk) one shows it one way and one another, try swapping them round, if that doesnt work bring up the tooth logger in TS and you'll be able to see exactly what is going on.

 

Cheers Karl, i figured it would be correct after you told me about the msq and what data it has.

The cps wiring (which way round) depends on which tach select jumper you use, MS1 uses VRinv which inverts the signal and EFIextra use VR (not VRinv) for their MS2's.... Mine is on VRinv at the moment so my cps wiring will be the opposite of EFIextras diagrams.

I'll swap it over this evening and see if it helps, im also going to adjust the VR conditioning pots whilst cranking to see if i get a signal.

Cheers for the help guys i'll let you know ho i get on!

Rob,

 

The good news is i have an RPM signal 200rpm on cranking give or take, AND i have ignition bit of a weak spark so i think i need to fiddle with the dwell settings....

I adjusted the VR conditioners pot and got a signal

But no fuel Going to check the usual things first.

Any one got any ideas? Cheers for the help above!

Rob,

 

no problem dude!

 

I may have fuel this evening, pretty sure i've been a TOTAL bellend and plumbed the fuel feed and return the wrong way round! lol,

A quick thankyou to Karlos who gave me a copy of his map, i wouldn't be this close if he hadn't

Cheers all

Rob,

 

Sounds like you are getting pretty close now.

Those VR pots can be a bit fiddly, there is a fine line between not enough signal strength cause they are blocking too much input and picking up noise where they arent blocking enough.

 

What are they Chip, i assume one is gain, and the other is threshold?

I may need to adjust them again later, but they are picking up a signal fine at the moment.

Pretty close (I hope!) maybe start it tonight.

Rob,

 

One for crank one for cam normally as far as im aware mate but there are so many different variations of MS I might be wrong on some and right on others!

 

Cheers mate, just did a quick search, one pot (r56) is threshold/trigger level the other adjusts hysteresis, I think my trigger was set too high, so with low cranking RPM's and smaller signal voltage the trigger circuit ignored the signal.

I'll use an oscilloscope later to adjust them properly as i suspect my threshold will not be too low and i will pick up noise, but i think it will do for starting etc.

 

Got it started!!! need to play around with fueling etc, and fix a few small vac leaks but the fecker started! Not ticking over yet, but im feeling more confident!

BUT

Should i be seeing 30deg advance @ 1800 rpm? I know the map's sound as its from Karlos's running engine, im just concerned something funny could be happening with my MAP sensor.

Any tips on where to move on from here? should i set all advance to 12deg and set the start-up and idle fueling THEN adjust timing?

Cheers

 

Hi

Use fixed angle for first testing, for example 12 degrees.
Then check with timing light you have really that 12 degrees.

 

Agreed, although I normally set to zero degrees and use a basic light with no settings and then you remove any chance of error in the light

 

Cheers guys, the timing has just been set to 12deg static,

Good tip Chip, when i have it ticking over i will use zero deg to check the timing offset.

Just chuffed its finally working (sort of), going to do a compression check tonight to make sure every thing is mechanically happy, and sort the vacuum leaks.

Rob,

 

Started much better with the static timing, fixed all the air leaks etc. It ran much better and actually idles! but its running on 3

Was thrown a bit as the AFR was 15-16:1 at some points when the engine was a little warmer, so i richened it up a bit and it wouldn't start. Cylinder no1 had flooded.

Plugs 1,3,4 were wet with fuel and very sooty (rich as feck despite the afr reading)....

Plug no.2 was spotless, no soot and no fuel.... injector no.2 isn't working its batch injection so its not the ecu, must be the injector OR injector loom wiring (oem ford).... but cylinder no2 was an air pump hence the AFR, think its going to be pretty rich when i fix the injector.

What required fuel settings do people normally use? mine was at 8 to start, the calculator puts it at 6.7 with 440cc injectors and a 13.1 target.... too much?

The hunt continues. Was pretty relieved that it ran though!

Thanks all

Rob,

 

Getting there then Rob, I think when I ran 485cc injectors my req fuel was about 5.6, 8 is quite high and will reduce the resolution of your VE table.
But first you need to get that injector working so you can see what your AFR actually is and go from there as I'm sure you know! lol

 

Cheers Karlos,

Is the required fuel setting just a multiplier that effects the whole table?

Yea, as soon as the injector is working i can be a bit more realistic with ve table and req. fuel settings,

I knew i should have bought those Deka's months ago!!! your table would have worked straight off then! lol Oh well, its a good enough excuse now.

I want to check my timing offset too.

Karlos, do you have any logs i can look at, showing MAP and IGN advance. Im a bit concerned i have another problem somewhere, as there is a lot of advance off load at low rpm (when the timing isn't static).

With your ign table i was getting 30deg advance @ 1800 rpm off load, is thins normal for your car?

Rob,

 

My megasquirt efi was first running in 2 cylinders because connecting fault between ford stock injector loom and megasquirt harness.

 

Thats the thing Antti, its only 1 cylinder, so i think the wiring is mostly correct, and the ecu is fine. Its either a broken wire in the ford injector loom OR the new injector doesn't work

Rob,

 

Yes I believe it is mate.
Yeah running Deka's would of made it easier! lol
That advance is fine mate yes.
It can only be the injector itself or the wiring to that injector (as in the pigtail) because it shares it's live and earth with another injector which is working.
Easiest thing to do is swap that injector for one of the working ones and that will at least show if it's wiring or the injector itself.

 

Cool cheers mate,

So at low Kpa, and low load lots of advance is alright, i guess that makes sense thinking about it!

Yea your right mate, the fact that its 3 cylinders mean its either the sub loom or the injector its self.

I'm going to buzz the pigtail loom through this evening, i guess cylinders 2,3 inject together?

Have you ever given the live VE analyser a go?

Rob,

 

Cheers all, problems are now mostly sorted. A wire had broken on the back of inj no.2's plug. The car now runs on 4 cylinders

It won't tick over though but thats some fun for next weekend. Think its rich on tick over.

How do people normally sort the tick over? do you just adjust the VE table until it idles? And should i turn off the AFR target for initial fuel mapping?

Rob,

 

Yeah adjust the VE to get a nice stable idle and AFR (mine likes around 14.0:1 for idle), dont use any corrections when mapping so turn off EGO Correction and AE until you have a finished VE table then tune the AE and when thats done you can enable EGO Correction for cruise/idle fuel trimming..... at least thats how I do it! lol