Caddyshack

I did some work on the brakes at the weekend so took another few pics of the hubs and compression struts in place

rooos

amazing .
i'll print this last pic, frame it, and hang it on my living room wall...
sexy even under the soutane... great job, mate!
let us know how the new set up handles and work in general...

Caddyshack

Thanks Rooos,

When I took it to my mate for the laser alignment he said it was the easiest to adjust set up and "trickest front end" that he had seen in 30+ yrs of doing tyres and tracking work.

I still need to dial out a bit of negative camber but I have run out of adjustment on the track rod ends so need to cut a bit more thread and then take a bit off each arm. The car has a very direct front end and no roll. I hope to soften the springs and improve the damping and then see how we get on.

The setup is very friendly though and feels nice and safe, the only thing I am getting at the moment is some wheelspin on the cold and wet roads. the car starts to crab a little and I am not 100% sure that this is not something like bump steer or torque steer as I have fresh closed diffs each end.

Once the 6 degree beam is in there and I have it all 100% dialled in I expect it to handle REALLY well.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

The parts look amazing, but what is the added value of the hubs? The setup with the compression struts, adjustable TCAs and compression struts looks great, but couldn't it be done with standard hubs? Or is camber also set by changing the angle between the hub and the strut?

Btw, how do you know how stiff the arb needs to be?

Caddyshack

I could not get the geometry right as my car is narrower than a cossie so the adjustable tcas gave me more range. I had normal adjustable tca before but the pin angle was too extreme and it also made the driveshafts knock and vibrate.

My drive shafts were sticking up in the air, now they are pretty straight.

The biggest benefit for me was due to the bladed arb moving to the front as the standard one severely restricted the exhaust route, it had to go very low and still have a big hump cut out which also restricted things and made it touch the gearbox, bearing in mind this was done by nortec it was the best going.

By moving to bladed I am now free to adapt the exhaust to give perfect fitment but I needed to add compression struts to control the hub and caster which was non adjustable before.

The hubs are lighter which is nice.

As to the adjustment of the arb, that is so easy that I can play with the amount of pre-load on there and adjust the roll. Once I am happy with the basic setup I will have a chassis guru consultant advise me and set up the car, the beauty of this set up is that you can adjust everything and it is so fast to do and put the wheel where you want it.

The down side is that you remove all rubber from the setup, whilst this gives consistent geo you do get some odd noise on rough roads and a few clonks when you first set off as the spherical free up.

Caddyshack

I took the side badges off today as I was not happy with the gloss black and plain side badges where 1.9 gti would normally go, I sent them to dmb Dave Monster for him to remake them and do a design, I am thinking top one 2.0 and bottom one Cosworth or cosworth 4x4. If they work I will get him to copy me up some for the 1.9 too as they are no longer available.

Caddyshack

Also, Mark Walker MK got in touch to say that the pics above showed that the drop links on the arb were not ideal, he very kindly said that he will machine up some extensions free of charge to bring them level, he also recently made some brake adapters for free to make my hubs work, I sent him the brakes and chassis leg and they came back working.....much appreciated

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Toby
Are the arb arms long enough ?
In one of the pictures the drop links don't look very perpendicular, but at quite a big angle that may put forces forward on the tca and reawards on the arb (and its mounting points).

Caddyshack

You are 100% correct, MK is making some extensions to bring them upright, it drives nicely but they cannot be working perfectly.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Great

Caddyshack

Today I slotted the passenger side location point in the sub frame engine cradle to allow me to take off some of the negative camber, I think I am close to neutral now so can begin to wind the adjustment back out to 1.5 degree neg for the road. I have taken a small slice off the steering arm thread and now it all looks right so I will now do the drivers side and then I can go back to the alignment and it should be bob on perfect.

Then I can start on the rear.

c20tbo

iTrader: (1)

MK also does a WRC billet TCA setup for using standard hubs and to enable you to use a bladed rollbar, that's the setup I have on my escos

Or is that what you had prior?

Caddyshack

Yes, I had the billet rca set up from him but the suspension could not run full droop as the pin was at full extension part way through the stroke,

Before that I had basic adjustable tca s, based on a standard one that a company had cut and added the adjustability. Do you run compression struts?

I do love having the full Wrc set up on there, even just to look at. If I was starting the car again today then I would send it to safety devices for a super trick rear cage to locate a full Wrc rear cradle and hubs. Who knows, I may go this route in a few years if I decide to refresh the car.

c20tbo

iTrader: (1)

Yes Mate, I run the wrc type and comp strut/ bladed bar but oe hubs on Escort, on full drop the pin is hard over but MK states once down on its wheels it should sit correct

Caddyshack

My pin was hard over even on it's wheels. I think the reason is that my 205 shell is a little narrower than the cossie, even though the engine subframe is standard as far as I can see, so who knows? I suspect it just sits lower on the chassis.

I also think that my hubs could have been xr4x4 and not cossie.

You could certainly tell that it was not happy just by driving it. Now my pin angle is straight up when the car is sitting on its wheels.

whizzisat114

iTrader: (2)

Looking good Toby
What are your bladed roll bar mounts like? Welded on or bolt on?
Are there obstructions to stop the roll bar moving rearwards?

Caddyshack

Hi, yes the bar is already touching the crank trigger so cannot come back any further, it is bolted and welded. MK is machining up some extensions to bring the drop links upright.

I had a play on a big wet roundabout today, the car handles really well and is very controllable on the throttle and you can steer it on the brakes or the throttle, really impressed.

whizzisat114

iTrader: (2)

I look forward to seeing some videos Toby

Caddyshack

Double post

Caddyshack

Welded and bolted the standard MK ones on there, the engine bay is a lot shorter than a Sierra, the arb is virtually touching the crank trigger so it cannot go any closer without touching the engine. MK is making me up some extensions to bring the drop links back upright.

c20tbo

iTrader: (1)

I have these on my Escort and mine sat like these fully extended on ramp, once lowered and sat naturally then they are pretty much as a standard joint sits (which isn't straight anyway)

Caddyshack

I wouldn't worry about the above post, it is very clear that he and MK have issues. I am not saying he is wrong, just that there is a much bigger story

Caddyshack

I had been thinking about why the camber was so different with the engine cradle being the standard width and I don't know why it took me so long to realise that it is due to the top strut towers being closer together with the narrower 205 shell compared to the wider Sierra shell; therefore the struts lean in at the top.


Now I have slotted the cradle I am down from just over 3 deg neg to 2.4 but I did not pull the lower arms all the way in which I will now try and measure again (I bought camber, castor and tracking gauges in the end)


I am considering putting different solid adjustable top mounts in but I will need to weld in new strut tops to accept the fully adjustable ones that I got from Spoox motorsport. I will have a look at the viability of this and probably go for that as that would give me the ability to get the camber down to 1.5 deg neg.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Don't you have problems with the driveshafts being too long if you slot the TCAs in the cradle?

It's a very interesting build and I have a lot of respect for all the effort you are putting in to perfect it!

Caddyshack

Hi Marc, my slot is inwards and was adding 10mm so the shafts had enough room to take that up, my shafts are now dead level when sitting at standard ride height. Now that the adjustable top mounts are in a better position I have moved back to standard in the slot and wound out the track control arm so there is no pressure on the shafts. I will take the car for a short run today and let it settle and then re check and adjust if needed.

Appreciate the comments.

Caddyshack

I was able to slot the top mounts and fit the spoox top mounts and I have now got 1.5 deg of neg camber, 3deg30 of caster and 1.5 deg toe in at the front, I looks much better and I am a happy boy.

The thing about this project has always been about the journey and learning to do stuff for myself, 4 yrs ago I would not have dreamt of taking a cutting blade to the top mounts of a valuable car but yesterday it was a kind of "it's gotta be done" and I got on with it

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Do you really have 1.5 degree toe in? Because it should only be about 0 degrees and 9 minutes in total for the front (2mm) and 0 degrees and about 14 minutes for the rear (3mm).

Edited: the 9 and 14 minutes should be for each wheel, so 18 and 28 in total.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

That setup will make the rear very loose

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Just nocited I put in the values for a single wheel, not the total values.

Caddyshack

Not to worry, I have dug the car out of the ditch now lol

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Lol

But still, were you serious on the 1.5 degrees? Because it really is way too much. It will wear the tyres terribly And the handling won't be as good as it can be.

Caddyshack

That is what Jay has suggested, it doesn't seem all that much to me? I am open to suggestions and it is so simple to adjust any of it now that I am willing to try many setups.

What would you suggest I try (in degrees please as my gauges don't do mm)

Thanks for your input

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

As I said, 0 degrees and 8 to 9 minutes toe in for each front wheel. For the rear 0 degrees and 13 minutes per wheel toe in. These are the settings that were used by Ford for the Group A and N Escort Cosworths. You can you easily Google to find these manuals.

Caddyshack

I have 17 minutes on the front (total) and it is fantastic, I then lowered the front and reset, it is amazing now. I will do the same on the rear when the beam is in. I am amazed how much a little geo set up changes the whole attitude of the car, it really is small adjustments.

I found I could tighten the line going round a roundabout with a throttle lift, just like a well set up 911, then add some throttle and unwind the lock to blend out of the turn....I love a car that you can turn on the throttle and brakes and this car is going that way.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

You changed it in half an hour and also took it for a test drive? Lol, you don't hang about. I guess turn is better now with less toe in. Ford even prescribes 0 toe on the front of a 4x4 Cosworth as factory setting, but that will make it feel nervous at high speed.

Caddyshack

The benefits of a set of ramps and all new bits on the car saves a lot of time.

Ran the car out today and then brought it back to check all the settings again as I dropped the front ride height quite a chunk (I reset after I dropped it) but of course after 40 miles it has all settled and this caused a bit of toe out so had to re do that. I will now run it for a bit more and then refine.

I need to speak to jonfoc now to get some softer springs to try, my little 1.9 feels very soft by comparison and Peugeot got it very right on the 1.9 as a road car.

visa_broke

so much work put into this

I'll have to keep an eye out if i'm down guildford way anytime soon. I used to go to bracknell every so often to see a mate who lives there but not been for a while.

jonfoc

I think I remember you saying that it was quite "crashey" before you fitted all the rose joints. Have you any idea what spring rates you have on the car? It might be time to soften them right up and start dialling the roll bar flex in.

Caddyshack

@visa, welcome to come and visit next time.

@ Jon foc, it is no longer crashy at all and I am suprised to find that the ball joints are all quiet. Today I disconnected the front roll bar as not happy with the drop links but will sort that.

I don't know the spring rates now so I think we should guess a 1000kg kerb weight (it is probably a little less) and try 4 spring to your guess. I just need to confirm as MK said the fronts are 2.5 but I think I saw 2.25 printed if that makes sense.

At the moment you can hardly make the car move by leaning on the front wing, it probably moves 20-25 mm if you stand on the sill and bounce your weight.

jonfoc

Usually 2.5" fronts and 2.25" rears, not always but usually. Sounds a bit "track spec" with that limited travel. Corner weights would be a huge help to get it bang on but we can get a best guess if you want. Have you thought of driving it to a weigh bridge and getting a rough axle weight?