im after some views and opinions from people with experience with 6 degree beams

im looking to get a 6 dregree jobby for my 2wd saph (road going car, i dont intend to do any track days i it) but im after

-pro's and con's of having half the arm rose jointed and the other half slotted

- pro's and con's of having both ends of the arms rose jointed

any help and experience would be great

 

cheers tony, i have already decided who is going to be making my beam, but i wanted to know was it worth replacing both standard joints with 2 rose jointed ones, would 2 of them not be over kill for a road going car?

 

why do people go for one rose joint and one slot then? is it just a cost thing?

 

I've got an adrenaline one on mine and it has LOADS more grip now when accelerating, the whole car feels more surefooted tbh, a good mod imo.

 

this is what id also like to know

 

No, you can't get as much adjustment using the outer as a rose joint.

We have come across problems adjusting the adrenalin beam with the rose joint inner and outer

We only use a inner joint keeping the brilliant standard ford outer.

There is no difference in accuracy of set up

 

Problems adjusting how Jimbo ?

 

Not enougH adjustment to get the wheel central in the arch with the correct settings. Duncan claaires concours escos

 

I'm with Jimbo, I thought adjusting the toe on the outer joint would possibly give problems where the wheel isn't central in the arch. And I'd have thought for road use, a single pair of rose joints would be slightly less harsh!

 

hi tony just a thought ,this 6 degree have you or anyone that you know, done a 4 or 5 degree oneor any other angle to see what changes it makes through its arc because if you plot it out 6 is still a compromise ,i have noticed people seem to just keep doing the same things instead of trying differnt ways also do you not think that if it was designed perfect in the first place why make it adjustable ,just a thought mate

thanks mark

 

Approaching a zero degree beam would mean getting closer to a pure trailing arm setup. There would be no camber gain in corners so wheel camber would equal your roll angle (+-whatever your static camber setting was)

I would imagin that six degree's has been worked out to be a good compromise for road and track use. A zero degree beam would be perfect for drag racing though, similar to a live axle in that it would keep both wheels perpendicular to the track surface.

 

Correct Tony not dissing your beams, although I disagree with the cost I would put money on our joint being a lot more expensive than what others are using, eyre bloody expensive

 

So which beam would be the best one to get then?

 

i'd be after a beam in the future once all other mods have been done - ie engine conversion

 

True enough, everyone has their bit on the way that's what business is, but it's also down to how mich more work goes into our beams, it's not just a pole with a big bead of weld round the end its properly stregnthened round the sides and fully capped and seam welded, any pics of yours Tony?

 

Double Spherical bearing all the way, 100% adjustment & security of a locking nut! Slotted works, but is less accurate IMHO. I have a Adrenaline beam on the Escos, and a Zoo beam on the Saff. Have to say I'm VERY happy with the Adrenaline one, very easy to adjust & lock off, had no problems at all getting the Camber & toe I wanted, with all the axle offsets correct & thrust lines correct. All the threads are well in safety with plenty of adjustment left either way.

Zoo beam is not the best quality ever, I would describe the welding as "industrial", and I threw away the crappy Alan key headed adjusters, and made some 42mm (don't ask!) barrel adjusters & locknuts for it, which has made it lots easier to adjust. It also has the Jag diff conversion, so I can't complain for the song I got it for .

The other two things that are VITAL to do is solid mount the massive car to beam joints, the standard ones are shockingly compliant as standard, let alone after 25 years of thrashing, environment & zero maintenance. The other is to fit a poly rear diff, as supplied by Rainbummer or MSD, it makes a world of difference!

For the non believers, jack your car up on the chassis, and get a mate to pull the rear subframe from side to side with you. You will find that the back end moves around like a fat birds arse on a bouncy castle!! The toe changes are scary for a standard beam, and then on top of that you have uncommanded movement from the bushes, I wouldn't be surprised to see over 5 degrees of toe change through the movement! No wonder most cossies feel loose at the back

Rainbum put some figures up for the modded beam, I will see if I can find them.

R4N S, you are doing EXACTLY the wrong thing, beam should be the first mod anyone does!! Everything else is wasted until you can put the power down properly IMHO!

 

Will, is your rear end on a wrc set up adjusting castor or do you mean camber

Tony. Our beam dosnt NEED the cut outs, the only reason it has them is when we actually went through development with them on a rally car after a harsh landing on the back the rear arms just caught the beam hoop. Obviously ott for the road but what happens if a rally car ended with it on the car and it smacked the beam, wouldn't look good right!

Ps I don't just stick up for our stuff for the sake of it, if I beleive its better Ghent I'll go by what I beleive.

Heres one, speak to AJC and ask him what beam he prefers single or twin. He's had the two "best" beams around and he gives his opinion!

Ps lol at dissin you ugly old git

 

Jim, you are quite right, I meant Camber ... I spoke to AJC at length about his Adrenaline beam, but he never had the car properly set up with it on IIRC, Adrenaline did all the adjustment using measurements? Hence why it never handled as he liked it? To be honest Jim, I would be more than happy with the SCS beam, I am sure they are fantastic quality, whichever one you buy it will make a massive, obvious difference.

The big problem is that, as with my Escos, the entire car is solid mounted bar the rear diff mount, sperical bearing jointed, compression strutted & totally adjustable.

If you do not have a 4 wheel laser alignment done, by a competant garage, it will NEVER handle correctly as there is so much scope for making a total mess of all the individual wheel settings, and thats before you get to the axle alignment & offsets, thrustline and chassis/ Bush deviations! I will post up my alignment results when I get back home, it shows pretty much every possible consideration, and is a very accurate 4 wheel laser system that has the weight on the wheels at all times, with floating beds to prevent incorrect adjustment due to the car not being settled on the suspension correctly!! Just observing the difference tightening a lock nut up makes in real time, or bouncing the car a few times after an adjustment is made to re-settle the car is amazing, the good thing is local to me this service is available for Ł60 an hour!

 

just contact mk motorsport of here or mark as he none he will help you out and probly be the best price

 

thank you for your reply will, that's the sort of reply ive been waiting for

ive noticed recently that my rear end on my saph feels very very uneasy when im changing lanes at speed or i go over a dip in the road, so much so i dont feel confident driving it fast at all

so before anymore power upgrades get done my beam is getting sorted out along with a diff mount and new drop links as mine have seen better days

 

I said exactly the same thing myself in the last beam post that went on, except the part about mc d's

tbh all the beams are copies of the Ahmed beam with a different name except some have deleted the cut out, because if they aren't the same there wouldn't be 6degrees angle when you intersect the lines from the bushes across the pinion.

 

Do i ?

Steve

 

You Cnut!

Basically as below, it was ahmeds design, that was tested on one of our rally cars! not an issue, nor does it weaken it to any extent and like you say, should we have ever had any issues with the scalloped beam then for 99% of the users just leave the beam whole!


Ps what are mot testers like with your beams being ereis a massively visible modification with welds?

 

FPMSL that was summed up nicely i think

thats how i see it to chap as everyone ive seen is a carbon copy ! but i would bujy one off Tony tbh with all the race experience he has speaks loud than young boys at maccyd's

 

Also. You say about a slotted inner joint being negative. Dependant on the cars body obviously our beam could be better or worse than 6degree.

The 6degree is made bang on the centre of the slot if I am not mistaken. And with it being toe adjustable on that slow a tiny tiny amount makes a big difference as it's across the arm. So if your being anal about it it could be a 5.8-6.2 for example

 

Jay, how does tony's cheery boot blossom taste

 

dont know jim hows Raj's

 

Lol! Tit for tat, never knew we were 6?

 

ive had plenty of practice coming down infants level jimbo

 

Maybe you should have worked a bit harder on your sentence structuring Jay, I can't get my head around that last one?

 

well it seems to piss jim off so why not

 

Our welder is coded Tony, you think we'd have some muppet with a mig and tig weld it on?

I suppose its down to what people want, a tried and tested component or something a bit cheaper.

People can make their own minds up

 

Come on girls, lets get the thread back on track, was in serious danger of turning into a good tech thread for once!

 

Lol! A few more infractions wouldn't go a miss, havnt had any in a while

Maybe I'll have to try harder!

 

Neither of your beam are as good as the Zoo items

 

Tony, if it don't look like a t4 I don't want it i may be young but love e old school

Tony, think it got out of context, I don't like a companies version of a twin joint beam as it runs out of adjustment, it only takes for a car to be not quite straight and it throws it out a mile. When the adjustment or amount of, is so much higher on the inner slotted beam! That is all!

Ps, tell them to hurry up with mikes if fed up of pushing it in and out already

 

what ! are you younger in the mind than i think ? its easy jim i have had plenty of practice dealing with infants and imature sarcasim and talking to them at there level as i have had 2 kids so comunicating with you and you childish remarks comes second nature ! but if you want a adult conversation then please fell free to act like one as im sure Harvey didnt bring you up to behave like the normal chavvy arsehole hey

 

its proving to be an entertaining read, most posts any of my threads have ever had

 

My Scs beam is awesome

 

Jay, I cant deal with people who can't have a joke, me and Tony are having a discussion on beams don't get all personal do we, your post referred to was rediculous, I got the gist of it, I'm not entirely thick.

Chavvey arse hole, nice!