PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

Enlighten us then Chip, for you to be able to make that statement you must be fully aware of who his customers are, and exactly what they have shelled out for their engines. Put up some real world examples and this thread can then die on its arse. No names required just spec and cost.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, I think I must have edited my reply as you were replying, as I didnt want to be accused of making an assumption that yours was more than 2 litres just cause you said it was 93mm, after all you could be on a 60mm throw crank for all I know

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

of course i want it to be true. but would it not really need 'all'of the parts to make it competitive. there is a huge difference between a rallycross engine and a trackday engine IMO.
its not just a case of comparing parts and chucking them together...any monkey can put pistons and cranks in and assemble heads. a 'proper' race engine is a different kettle of fish ...again this is my humble opinion....but i dont claim to be able to build a countless championship winning engine for 30k.....you have that title mate

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I dont have the figures to hand, but like I said I think you would be surprised if you are thinking it would be more than a few grand off that, as the last time I heard of someone buying an engine of this sort of spec it was WELL into the 40s.

As for being fully aware of who his customers are, no one outside of his company can ever say that for certainty in motorsport, just because you are listed on JG's website as a customer of his doesnt actually mean you really are, I know people in the states running NOS sponsored cars with that written all over them but actually running wizards kits instead.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

mike, i am not saying that you cant build a good cossie engine cos i believe you can with power and reliability but i dont believe you can build one to replace that JG engine as competitively and reliably and its achievements.....for 30k. that is all.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike has already said he doesnt build engines, he gets Harvey (or me, lol) to do it for him.

JonnyBravo

Mike, serious question.

How much has ( or would ) your engine of cost inc all the parts you have replaced when they broke ?

Or look at it another way, how much have ALL the engines cost you together so far that you have put in that Escort ? assuming that one way or the other they have failed in some way meaning a complete overhaul.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

He cant answer that, imagine if his wife read it

JonnyBravo

I'm sure Harvey wouldn't be that bothered

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

no worries chip, but when you do have them to hand please post them up, do you think you will be able to do that before this thread gets to 49 pages of guesses, bravado and horse shite ????

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The trouble is, even if I went and confirmed the figure with someone who I believe knows what is true (steveboyslim for example), unless it was actually a photograph of the receipt with JG and the customer both holding it, it still wouldnt be good enough for PF to be classed as anything other than "an assumption"

Thats why I said *I THINK* rather than just making a statement that you definately would be surprised.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

so revised list goes something like this

Pectel SQ6 management Ł3.5k prob more with upgrades
Loom Ł1000
Swedish roller barrel inlet plenum Ł5k
Nikasil wet linered 4x4 block with all machining Ł2k and oil jets etc
Ten stud kit Ł350
JG dry sump kit with girdle Ł7.5k
Arrow crank Ł2.5k to JG spec
arrow rods Ł1.2k prob to JG spec
billet pistons Ł 1k+ jg spec
New head Ł1.5k
Machining, porting, guides, valves and WRC headgasket Ł3k
Cams, solid lifters and springs Ł1.3k
Custom inconel shafted turbo Ł6k
Primary designs inconnel manifold Ł2.5k
RS200 Evo wastegate Ł600
Plating, bearings ,plugs,goodridge waterpump, seal housings gaskets consumables,ARP's,rocker cover,belts, pulleys Ł2k
Mapping and fuel Ł2k prob Ł10 a litre for fuel mind
Labour to build engine Ł1.5k
cop Ł 400
injectors Ł1k up to. dont know what they are

flywheel Ł400


feel free to quote with additions changes etc
nigh on Ł47 k there ....prices may vary terms and conditions on request lol[/QUOTE]

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dugy, that probably is fairly close to representative of the real cost of this sort of engine I should think.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

yes i would think so as a one off. but bearing in mind after the first few the machining,mapping etc should drop as you have base map and cnc programs and arrow have specs already. plus JG will ge trade prices so it wont cost him that to build but at retail thats what it would be.

be nice to see some of the cossie engine builders quotes/opinions ma dev,reyland,msd ,jimbo etc

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

It's clearly very expensive, but I can't help thinking it's a quesiton of you getting what you pay for - and not everyone has 'fingers-in-pies' nor the desire to assemble the component parts themselves. So - if you're fucking minted, and you want a mega strong, mega powerful YB engine, then you'd buy a JG engine regardless of the cost.

Rod-Tarry

Nah!!
Were the best, Arrow bought them out ages ago mind you i know his old machnist if i ever want another one .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Restricted race engines that need to conform to umpteen rules are something you need a lot of direct experience of building before you have any confidence quoting on them as you need to do so much development to find the right spec.
Of that list, I would imagine its only Jimbo (well more accurately Harvey) that have much experience of engines of this type as to the best of my knowlege he builds more restricted competition engines than the others do.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Neat looking plug top coils on that engine, what are they?

ajamesc

but it still been in there for about 4 years lol but yeah i know what your saying i have the same box in mine with an m.a.d 500 set up dose me fine

JonnyBravo

Even Danny said his block was Ł4.5k so thats a fair bit more than Mikes qouting.

I've just been looking at the build costs of a wrc S12 Subaru engine makes the JG engine look more than reasonable ! Can't find much related to the Ford stuff sadly but anything WRC is built to the highest standard and were not talking normal money.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You obviously haven't digested a word I have said . I didn't build me engine, my YBP lump was built by a championship winning engine builder and is actually built to a better spec than many rally-cross engines . It uses top spec parts (many the same as what JG uses ) and is built to race spec due to the abuse I put it too, but detuned for reliability / driveability (I don't drive my car half heartedly and it is not a garage / pub queen, if any part of the car / engine can be broken, I WILL break it ). My bottom end is the same as AG's 806bhp engine and the only thing holding it back from making that kind of power is the head (standard valves), cams, inlet manifold (restricted to 620bhp) and turbo (52lb).

If you're that interested, why not click on my resto and see what went into it .

Obviously I have been able to "skimp" on some parts, because my use doesn't warrant it (dry sump as an example), but neither does it use many parts that are on other "track" cars .

joffy

iTrader: (1)

As a side point, is this still classed as a yb? Different block, head, crank, stroke, bore, compression ratio, cams, valves etc, what's left? What is it that defines it as a YB? Serious question, not a dig at anyone,

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The box might have been in there for 4 years but the power hasnt, lol

When I featured his car for Fast Ford, he said his biggest concern was for the box and that if it did go it would be a different box next time (T56 or TKO etc) rather than another big tooth T5

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, easy to spend thousands on a loom alone at that level!

Rod-Tarry

Why dont you all wait to see if it sells.

Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.

dannyblackpool

over 2.8k in ebay fees if sold on ebay!!

JonnyBravo

Sorry but had to laugh at that.

Back to Mike, your STILL comparing YOUR engine to the one that AG had which from what it looks like is NOTHING like the one that is for sale even if when the prices were similar when new.

As you say your engine at one time would of been classed as a rallycross engine where as now its no where near the spec of one.

JonnyBravo

I was just about to work that out

Lets hope he is a business if their bringing in the 22% tax anytime soon

dannyblackpool

I was about to work it out, but couldnt be arsed so typed "Ebay calculator" in google and it did it for me lol

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Oooooh you bitch .

I won't deride Mark for the sake of retalliating, as I think too highly of him to do so , but I'm sure if I told Harvey I wanted to destroy my transmission on a regular basis he would gladly map the car for 2.7 bar . As it is, I'm more than happy with my baby responsive 550/450 engine (until Mark tests that new 650bhp BW turbo that has the same response as mine but the extra 100bhp ).

As to the championships, Harvey has had more winning cars than your car has had headgaskets (and THAT's saying something) . All in jest .

carlo

iTrader: (4)

Andrew done not bad 3 year in a row with one !

But buckle up my prediction was right were nearly half way there to the 10 pager

JonnyBravo

This is not a dig Carlo but was that the same engine for 3 years ? I thought I'd heard it had a few failures which was one reason why he dry sumped it ?

Don't get me wrong its a race engine getting the beating of its life, even wrc engines fail so no one is perfect, just curious how reliable it was ?

ajamesc

no but its had more than 500bhp for 3 to 4 of them

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, its lasted very well so far.

carlo

iTrader: (4)

The 680 engine that andrew has most success with is still going strong mate wenny bought it ( dont think he has fitted it yet) that 680 engine started in the AM sport fiesta & so on through the white focus & the blue focus till the last year andrew had it. Then the 800 bhp motor was built , he started the last season with the 680 engine cause the 800 bhp one wasnt ready! The mk1 focus was a 618 engine thats in that mk2 escort now mapped to 570 on pump fuel

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That's because mine has no limiting factors. As soon as you cap an engine, the parts required to make the same power are no longer the same. There is no point me comparing my engine to the JG one on ebay, as it is a completely different kettle of tuna. I am not running a restrictor, so can achieve the power with relative ease. I am not running race fuel, so my compression is relatively low.

However, with a few simple spec changes, I know my engine could be made competitive. However, I am unsure of the reasoning behind the dry sump set-up, as (NMS) Karl did a very detailed reasoning as to why you don't need this on a YB and it seems to add a considerable cost for very little potential gain, with plenty of potential catastrophic reliability issues (especially given the surface these cars race on)?

Anyway, a good bit of Friday fun .

SiZT

ref why the engines on ebay. I think you'll be suprised what can be sold on there.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

That engine is nothing like yours Rainbow, it's not even covered in the same black crinkle finish poo stuff that you like so much.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, just imagine how much more could be charged with this finish .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

They're the new Blue tooth ones, which partially explains the extra cost that can be charged. Did you not know the SQ6 could do this?