R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

Just seems that chips putting down Mikes business for no reason? No real meed for it tbh

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im not twisting anyone's words, you are, you tried to imply I had talked about your engine's headgasket when I hadnt for example.
You were calling me a hypocrit when I was being no such thing at all.

Its YOU that is doing what you are accusing me of Mike

You are assuming Im making assumptions rather ironically, but im not

Im pointing out that massive gaps between what you are quoting as the value of some of the parts and work involved and the actual cost, its not a matter of opinion, just a matter of fact.



Ive not made any assumptions, I have made observations.
I havent assumed you dont know what the costs involved in a custom made arrow crank are, I have made an assumption because YOU said its only 1500 quid, and thats simply not the case, thats an off the shelf YB crank not a custom one.


And as above, you arent actaully answering my questions, for the simple reason that you know that if you do, you will be shown up for what you are! (whatever that is, could be stupid or could be dishonest, im making no assumptions but its observably not a competition engine expert by the looks of it )

Ironic coming from you, the only person in this thread to actually outright call anyone a name so far.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

My engine builder has built both rally, rallycross, and many various race championship engines , so how / why has this turned into what I could personally build, just because I questioned the pricing?

I pay someone else to do this - Chip builds all my engines .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its not for no reason at all.

Mike is trying to imply that buying from JG is equivalent to buying parts from him and should be priced accordingl, I am merely pointing out why that is NOT the case.

How many cranks do you think JG gets through before he decides to sell one?
Where as Mike just happily sells on anything that his suppliers sell.

There is NOTHING actually wrong with what mike is doing, ebay and forums and the net in general are full of lots of people all doing the same thing, but its NOT comparable to buying in high level competition engine building knowledge and the proven RIGHT parts.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No one yet has actaully mentioned you being the person to bolt together the actual engine, Im sure that none of us think you would be attempting that.

If I did, you would have been on an Arrow crank because its the right part, not on a farndon one because there is a better markup

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

I work in a similar situation to JG. If a motor I build goes tits up it's not just the cost of the engine it's a full years championship...that they are putting hundreds of thousands into like team,transport,hotels,hospitality and reputation...down the pan. To be able to build and repeat the success of JG is something that most can only 'dream' about. It's not a trackday that you can say 'oh well ' I'll build it again ford donny trackday.

RANJ

DKE make best cranks

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Exactly!

Like I mentioned earlier, you are paying an insurance premium when you buy an engine from JG that you arent paying when you buy parts from Mike (or other people like him, nothing wrong with what he is doing just buying and selling bits to make a bit of money)

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

It's 'accountabilty' (racking my brains trying to think of the word)

A block of ally I machines recently was over 5k because it has tracabilty certs. I can get the same size block for under 400 from my local metal stockist. That's over 1000 % mark up.

Cost of the industry.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

See Chip, you say that you aren't making assumptions, but the above is so far from the reality BECAUSE of you assumptions .

I DON'T BUILD ENGINES (YOU know that, so why are you talking as if I do ?). THEREFORE MY PRICES ARE NOT BASED ON ME SUPPLYING .

Also, I do NOT sell on "anything" that my suppliers sell . So you are wrong on all counts you have posted above - PLEASE stop stating your assumptions as if they are fact .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

No such company .

RANJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

What assumption? Detail it.
You are mistaken, I have made no assumption


I know you dont build engines, Harvey does, and you liase with customers on his behalf as far as I am aware.
NOWHERE in this thread have I said or implied that you are capable of building an engine to a decent standard, I dont know of anyone who would believe that to be the case TBH



You dont sell anything that your suppliers sell?

You'll genuinely have to explain that to me.

Would you like to name something that one of your suppliers are prepared to sell to you that you wouldnt sell to me at a profit if I was looking for one?

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

On the whole of it mike you can't build an engine of the spec or reliability to do the job for which the Julian Godfrey one is intended for 30k End of. If you can ' prove ' your point by doing so then I'll be at the front of the queue to congratulate you.
Btw call Harvey and ask what he would charge to build and supply a European, British and Norwegian championship winning rallycross engine

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Why am I bothering ?

No I am not, I have already STATED that I believe I could get same / better from an alternative engine builder. So have not implied nor stated anything about buying parts from ME (that was YOUR assumption).

I would like to think that he is like me in that respect and once a supplier has proven to be shit, refuses to deal with them . I personally am quite specific with what suppliers I deal with and despite there being profit on many items, I won't sell a product I don't believe in. Also if there is a a product one of my suppliers provides that I don't believe in, I won't sell it.

Is that specific enough for you?

I have LOADS of things I wouldn't sell (well, maybe I would to you ), a few examples off the top of my head being:

The Quaife big-tooth gearkit. Quaife build MANY good parts, but this particular item isn't up to the task of big power - REMOVED from sale.

Castrol RS oil - not a proper fully synthetic, the molecules unwide at high temp (causing the oil to expand and blow out of the breather, thus given excessive consumption), it goes too thick when hot for a high revving YB and shears at high temp loosing most of it's protective properties - REMOVED from sale.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I don't need to call him, I know - hence why I posted in the first place . If you wish to know this information as well, feel free to call him on 01733 576 614 .

One of the last ones he did was to replace a JG engine .......

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

I hope the quaife gerkit will be ok at 450hp/400lbs

ajamesc

sorry quoted on wrong post lol

ajamesc

Your well off on the price of that sump its £7800 for that set up and thats all the bits needed to fit it yourself but they will need the block as it needs to be modded and the sump is made to each block! and thats for a standard throw crank its more for a long throw one

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

Everyone seems to have fallen for a clever bit of cheap marketing by JG.

Anyone who is in the market for that kind of engine is hardly going to purchase it via ebay, they would be fully aware of his company and what it can do, and would deal direct. JG hardly need to reach out to the the normal ebayers for new business.

Companies like this never publish "real" prices for good reason, as they will tailor the cost to what they think the customer has to spend. Two different customers could end up with exactly the same engine, but you can guarantee if they compared bills they would be in for a shock.

By the power of the internet such an engine now has a ball park cost of 52k for ever more, but before the ebay advert I bet anyone other than a previous customer would have struggled to come up with an accurate figure.

If you turned up at the door with a bag of cash I bet you could go home with that engine for a lot more favourable price, and any other future customer can be told, "well as everyone knows these engines are 52k, but I am sure we can do a special deal just for you, but dont tell anyone else".

Its a win win situation - nobody disputes the quality of their work, so anyone who pays the full whack comes away thinking "premium product for a premium price", and anyone who gets it for less think they have had a bargain.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I am talking MT75, we won't even talk about the T5 version .

So if it is a 4x4, start praying - "hope" won't cut it, as it's a negative . Will be alright for a short period, but if driven how intended, then expect it to shit itself .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It certainly got all us talking about it !

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

In your opinion you know....your engine wouldn't last a day at a euro rallycross meet.
Who's JG engine was replaced exactly?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Paul, I think you would be surprised at how close to that 52K his competition customers are prepared to pay if you think that you'll get more than a few grand off?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well you arent particuarly, you still havent detail how you think that 1800 you listed for the valve gear and headwork goes for example?

You just keep wandering off on little tangents and ignoring the direct questions asked of you.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You know how much for a multiple high level rallycross championship winning engine which was the question you just answered?

Which car was that in then, as I must confess im not aware of any european rallycross championship winning YB that Harvey has ever built for example and would certainly be interested in hearing about one if he has? or is this just what he THINKS might be able to win in the right car, rather than one actually proven to have done so?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Totally!

Quite interesting though!

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

Mines 2wd so t5 lol a few guys on here run them at 450-500 and havnt had any issues

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I personally think it would, however, as you are making assumptions about my engine, what do you think would fail and why?

You would need to ask Harvey that, as it was last year and I can't remember .

joffy

iTrader: (1)

Mike, its like buying a house, £320k for a house is a lot of money, I'd imagine you could buy some cheaper bricks cement plaster etc for a third of the price, but I'd rather pay the extra as someone who knows what they are doing has put it together right with the right materials, yes he's charging a premium and I could do it cheaper but that's cos he knows what he's doing and used the right parts!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think it would fail to be competitive, on the basis that I doubt its high enough compression ratio to make proper use of the fuels involved in that level of competition, but being in a lower state of tune would no doubt fair it well for finishing at least

Road engine and race engine have different requirements, I would say that any road engine capable of winning a high level rallycross event was by definition a bad road engine

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Get on the phone to him and ask - I can't remember, but it was one of the Scandinavian countries. It was about a year ago (might be even longer, you know how time flies ) . Defo after the restrictor regs came in .

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

But you are going to say that after your claims doh.
It would be impossible to say what would fail but I think it would be off the pace also but that's my opinion.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

He didn't say that it would fail to be competitive, he said he thought my engine "wouldn't last a day". The fact that it is lumbered to a 1500kg road shell would somewhat limit it's competiveness.

However, I would be interested in hearing what part of the engine he thinks would be the weak link?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike, if you read what I said, I was defending your engine in terms of its ability to finnish.

Acedemic though as your engine almost certainly would be allowed to enter in the first place, no restrictor etc

Personally the link I think WOULD fail if your engine was left broadly as it was and then retuned for rallycross would be the turbo as I think your EGT's would be too high on race fuel with your low comp and the amount of antilag it would need to be running etc.

But I dont think that makes it a bad road engine, as I said, different things, I would love your engine if someone gave it to me

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Considering that my engine has MANY parts that would have been considered top of the tree of rally-cross only a few years ago, I think that you're making a sweeping statement that you WANT to be true .

But if you're so sure, why not start comparing internals with such cars .

ajamesc

mad ad runs a big tooth t5 at 700bhp and around 600lb ft so u have no worrys in a road car!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Well they run restrictors now which basically limits power to around 550bhp....

However, I am not sure about capacity limits?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Although he does, he isnt expecting it to last.

But 450 on a big tooth rwd box certainly will be in with a good chance