52 grand yb lol
26-11-2010, 09:42 PM
#201
If it looks like that to you Mike, then clearly you have no idea of the costs involved.
You're too used to being around people building engines of an established spec where its only a tweak from one engine to the next (thats not a dig at Harvey, if you look at what Mark is doing its similar)
Thats not what JG is doing, he goes off at some properly weird and properly expensive tangents whilst looking for the right spec for his engines from what I gather, just the amount of money that he has spent trying to keep a head gasket on an engine for example would need the sale of quite a few of these im sure, and thats before you go anywhere near mindfields like camshaft profile and what compression ratio to end up on.
Seriously you are absolutely dreaming if you think that 10K of development budget gets you anywhere near where JG is!
You could build an engine ALMOST to this spec for 40K with ease, but being half a second a lap slower due to lack of devil in the details isnt worth the 10K saving over going to the undisputed king of building these sort of competition engines!
You're too used to the go faster road car and trackday market I think Mike!
You're too used to being around people building engines of an established spec where its only a tweak from one engine to the next (thats not a dig at Harvey, if you look at what Mark is doing its similar)
Thats not what JG is doing, he goes off at some properly weird and properly expensive tangents whilst looking for the right spec for his engines from what I gather, just the amount of money that he has spent trying to keep a head gasket on an engine for example would need the sale of quite a few of these im sure, and thats before you go anywhere near mindfields like camshaft profile and what compression ratio to end up on.
Seriously you are absolutely dreaming if you think that 10K of development budget gets you anywhere near where JG is!
You could build an engine ALMOST to this spec for 40K with ease, but being half a second a lap slower due to lack of devil in the details isnt worth the 10K saving over going to the undisputed king of building these sort of competition engines!
You're too used to the go faster road car and trackday market I think Mike!
26-11-2010, 09:57 PM
#202
Not really imo as every engine being built by anyone these days costs alot to get a desired hp/lb ft in terms of r+d..
Theres plenty of ways to skin a cat and what works in theory doesnt always work in practice.
Jg has been building race and rx engines for years now and know what works and what doesnt so the rd has been done along time ago so the said engine doesnt cost him anymore than the parts to do it and the time and that isnt anywhere near £50k in this case..
cheers danny
Theres plenty of ways to skin a cat and what works in theory doesnt always work in practice.
Jg has been building race and rx engines for years now and know what works and what doesnt so the rd has been done along time ago so the said engine doesnt cost him anymore than the parts to do it and the time and that isnt anywhere near £50k in this case..
cheers danny
26-11-2010, 10:21 PM
#203
Not really imo as every engine being built by anyone these days costs alot to get a desired hp/lb ft in terms of r+d..
Theres plenty of ways to skin a cat and what works in theory doesnt always work in practice.
Jg has been building race and rx engines for years now and know what works and what doesnt so the rd has been done along time ago so the said engine doesnt cost him anymore than the parts to do it and the time and that isnt anywhere near £50k in this case..
cheers danny
Theres plenty of ways to skin a cat and what works in theory doesnt always work in practice.
Jg has been building race and rx engines for years now and know what works and what doesnt so the rd has been done along time ago so the said engine doesnt cost him anymore than the parts to do it and the time and that isnt anywhere near £50k in this case..
cheers danny
Not taking anything away from Mike Rainbird, i fully appreciate he knows more than myself and probabably 90% of the other users on this forum about the ins and outs of the YB, untill a product is proven it doesnt mean shit, whether that is 30k or 50k it doesnt matter
26-11-2010, 11:12 PM
#206
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everyone has had a good guess at the cost of the parts used by jg, but not many seem to be taking into account a factor which is very hard to put a price on........ knowledge and experience.
My 10pence worth is that the engine is not really that overpriced. If i were building a rallycross car ans wanted an engine, i would be going strait to the man with EXPERIENCE. not the other joe bloggs saying he can get all the same parts a lower price.
My 10pence worth is that the engine is not really that overpriced. If i were building a rallycross car ans wanted an engine, i would be going strait to the man with EXPERIENCE. not the other joe bloggs saying he can get all the same parts a lower price.
26-11-2010, 11:23 PM
#207
everyone has had a good guess at the cost of the parts used by jg, but not many seem to be taking into account a factor which is very hard to put a price on........ knowledge and experience.
My 10pence worth is that the engine is not really that overpriced. If i were building a rallycross car ans wanted an engine, i would be going strait to the man with EXPERIENCE. not the other joe bloggs saying he can get all the same parts a lower price.
My 10pence worth is that the engine is not really that overpriced. If i were building a rallycross car ans wanted an engine, i would be going strait to the man with EXPERIENCE. not the other joe bloggs saying he can get all the same parts a lower price.
cheers danny
27-11-2010, 12:49 AM
#208
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You can get the parts at those prices but I'm quite sure I or many others couldn't for the money your quoting Danny.
Not a dig, just being realistic, same goes with what Wozzy said, regardless of the fact you can get those parts that cheap if I wanted a Division One RX engine there are very few people I would choose to build it, no doubt prices would vary but understandably I would expect them to be WAY more than your quoting simply as you would want to pay for a little re-assurance thats its going to last more than a few laps.
I'm not saying JG is the god of YB tuning, far from it but he does without doubt build some of the most powerful YB's going, how reliable they are is a mystery to me as strangely I don't know anyone personally who runs one of his YB's, I know someone with a JG BDT with nigh on 800hp though and its a monster of a engine, and understandably the price tag for it was erm HUGE lol
Going back to the turbo discussion, I once read that a IHI wrc turbo was 8k+, I would imagine that whatever is used on the JG engines is of similar quality so surely is going to run to similar money ? fuck knows why so much as typically its a turbo and does what a stock T3 does, better obviously but you would expect that for £7999 more
Not a dig, just being realistic, same goes with what Wozzy said, regardless of the fact you can get those parts that cheap if I wanted a Division One RX engine there are very few people I would choose to build it, no doubt prices would vary but understandably I would expect them to be WAY more than your quoting simply as you would want to pay for a little re-assurance thats its going to last more than a few laps.
I'm not saying JG is the god of YB tuning, far from it but he does without doubt build some of the most powerful YB's going, how reliable they are is a mystery to me as strangely I don't know anyone personally who runs one of his YB's, I know someone with a JG BDT with nigh on 800hp though and its a monster of a engine, and understandably the price tag for it was erm HUGE lol
Going back to the turbo discussion, I once read that a IHI wrc turbo was 8k+, I would imagine that whatever is used on the JG engines is of similar quality so surely is going to run to similar money ? fuck knows why so much as typically its a turbo and does what a stock T3 does, better obviously but you would expect that for £7999 more
27-11-2010, 01:48 AM
#209
cossie fan (unluckerly)
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27-11-2010, 08:19 AM
#210
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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27-11-2010, 08:27 AM
#211
still no joy with doors mate 
im waiting on a guy getting back to me about some on escort cosworth .com The engine andrew bought that russell has i was there the day it dynoed at harveys & harveys comments were it would be a very good rallycross engine which it what it was built for , it just wasnt the right spec for andrews needs on track hence why it was never used ! it didnt make the claimed power but it was overfuelling a bit we had been down at harveys most of the day setting it up on the dyno bairing in mind we traveled down there the night before with no sleep so we threw the towel in as we didnt want to spend another few hours mapping it then the dredded drive home! i have no doubt it would have done what it said on the tin.
27-11-2010, 08:34 AM
#212
You can get the parts at those prices but I'm quite sure I or many others couldn't for the money your quoting Danny.
Not a dig, just being realistic, same goes with what Wozzy said, regardless of the fact you can get those parts that cheap if I wanted a Division One RX engine there are very few people I would choose to build it, no doubt prices would vary but understandably I would expect them to be WAY more than your quoting simply as you would want to pay for a little re-assurance thats its going to last more than a few laps.
I'm not saying JG is the god of YB tuning, far from it but he does without doubt build some of the most powerful YB's going, how reliable they are is a mystery to me as strangely I don't know anyone personally who runs one of his YB's, I know someone with a JG BDT with nigh on 800hp though and its a monster of a engine, and understandably the price tag for it was erm HUGE lol
Going back to the turbo discussion, I once read that a IHI wrc turbo was 8k+, I would imagine that whatever is used on the JG engines is of similar quality so surely is going to run to similar money ? fuck knows why so much as typically its a turbo and does what a stock T3 does, better obviously but you would expect that for £7999 more
Not a dig, just being realistic, same goes with what Wozzy said, regardless of the fact you can get those parts that cheap if I wanted a Division One RX engine there are very few people I would choose to build it, no doubt prices would vary but understandably I would expect them to be WAY more than your quoting simply as you would want to pay for a little re-assurance thats its going to last more than a few laps.
I'm not saying JG is the god of YB tuning, far from it but he does without doubt build some of the most powerful YB's going, how reliable they are is a mystery to me as strangely I don't know anyone personally who runs one of his YB's, I know someone with a JG BDT with nigh on 800hp though and its a monster of a engine, and understandably the price tag for it was erm HUGE lol
Going back to the turbo discussion, I once read that a IHI wrc turbo was 8k+, I would imagine that whatever is used on the JG engines is of similar quality so surely is going to run to similar money ? fuck knows why so much as typically its a turbo and does what a stock T3 does, better obviously but you would expect that for £7999 more
If joe bloggs wants to buy a rx engine and doesnt have any great contacts he will have to pay the price asked thats fair enough and up to him..
What we are saying is although jg is one of the best you sure have to pay through the knose for this infact it seems very unfair to charge say £20k profit on one engine!!
Im quoting prices that i pay yes but that means jg will pay the same and in some cases far less as he actually makes some of those expensive parts himself..
Its errelivant that he can charge £7.5k for the sump kit as like iv said he makes that himself so my point is unless your stupid rich your just plain stupid to pay £52k for any yb!!!
but like iv also said its up to you!!!
cheers danny
27-11-2010, 10:27 AM
#221
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I'm not knocking any tuners on this forum as to be fair, how many customers do you get saying 'hi, i'd like a 600hp, 700ft lb engine please that has to last a race season'. If you did you'd have the r & d behind you to know exactly what parts and WHY they are needed to build an engine like that. IMO experience is the name of the game
27-11-2010, 12:25 PM
#229
10K+ Poster!!
27-11-2010, 12:42 PM
#231
Its all well and good somebody saying they can build an engine of the same COMPONENTS cheaper then what JG is charging, but what good is that when the exact specification off the shelf component is not correct to suit the job in hand.
As an example off the shelf CP pistons are cicra $650-700?? The spec JG will be using is not off the shelf, they will be HIS specification pistons with a certain comp ratio, crown design, bowel design, skirt length etc.
Arrow rods will be HIS chosen length and could be a slightly different shape to suit longer or larger rod bolts as an example.
Arrow crank will be HIS chosen throw, and have HIS chosen counter balance effect.
Your not just paying for the component, you are paying for his knowledge to specify the exact details of that component THAT WORKS
As an example off the shelf CP pistons are cicra $650-700?? The spec JG will be using is not off the shelf, they will be HIS specification pistons with a certain comp ratio, crown design, bowel design, skirt length etc.
Arrow rods will be HIS chosen length and could be a slightly different shape to suit longer or larger rod bolts as an example.
Arrow crank will be HIS chosen throw, and have HIS chosen counter balance effect.
Your not just paying for the component, you are paying for his knowledge to specify the exact details of that component THAT WORKS
Last edited by TimC; 27-11-2010 at 02:52 PM.
27-11-2010, 03:25 PM
#236
Anybody for a brew?
I'm changing my name by deed-poll 
27-11-2010, 10:34 PM
#237
Regular Contributor
Very interesting thread, JG builds some savage motors, as do a lot more people, such as HG, but it's horses for coarse's. HG could build a motor like that, and so could many more, but I'd be surprised they would be much cheaper.
John
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