52 grand yb lol
#121
PassionFord Post Troll
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Enlighten us then Chip, for you to be able to make that statement you must be fully aware of who his customers are, and exactly what they have shelled out for their engines. Put up some real world examples and this thread can then die on its arse. No names required just spec and cost.
#123
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Considering that my engine has MANY parts that would have been considered top of the tree of rally-cross only a few years ago, I think that you're making a sweeping statement that you WANT to be true .
But if you're so sure, why not start comparing internals with such cars .
But if you're so sure, why not start comparing internals with such cars .
its not just a case of comparing parts and chucking them together...any monkey can put pistons and cranks in and assemble heads. a 'proper' race engine is a different kettle of fish ...again this is my humble opinion....but i dont claim to be able to build a countless championship winning engine for 30k.....you have that title mate
#124
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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Enlighten us then Chip, for you to be able to make that statement you must be fully aware of who his customers are, and exactly what they have shelled out for their engines. Put up some real world examples and this thread can then die on its arse. No names required just spec and cost.
As for being fully aware of who his customers are, no one outside of his company can ever say that for certainty in motorsport, just because you are listed on JG's website as a customer of his doesnt actually mean you really are, I know people in the states running NOS sponsored cars with that written all over them but actually running wizards kits instead.
#125
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mike, i am not saying that you cant build a good cossie engine cos i believe you can with power and reliability but i dont believe you can build one to replace that JG engine as competitively and reliably and its achievements.....for 30k. that is all.
#127
10K+ Poster!!
Mike, serious question.
How much has ( or would ) your engine of cost inc all the parts you have replaced when they broke ?
Or look at it another way, how much have ALL the engines cost you together so far that you have put in that Escort ? assuming that one way or the other they have failed in some way meaning a complete overhaul.
How much has ( or would ) your engine of cost inc all the parts you have replaced when they broke ?
Or look at it another way, how much have ALL the engines cost you together so far that you have put in that Escort ? assuming that one way or the other they have failed in some way meaning a complete overhaul.
Last edited by JonnyBravo; 26-11-2010 at 02:24 PM.
#128
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Mike, serious question.
How much has ( or would ) your engine of cost inc all the parts you have replaced when they broke ?
Or look at it another way, how much have ALL the engines cost you together so far that you have put in that Escort ? assuming that one way or the other they have failed in some way.
How much has ( or would ) your engine of cost inc all the parts you have replaced when they broke ?
Or look at it another way, how much have ALL the engines cost you together so far that you have put in that Escort ? assuming that one way or the other they have failed in some way.
#130
PassionFord Post Troll
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I dont have the figures to hand, but like I said I think you would be surprised if you are thinking it would be more than a few grand off that, as the last time I heard of someone buying an engine of this sort of spec it was WELL into the 40s.
As for being fully aware of who his customers are, no one outside of his company can ever say that for certainty in motorsport, just because you are listed on JG's website as a customer of his doesnt actually mean you really are, I know people in the states running NOS sponsored cars with that written all over them but actually running wizards kits instead.
As for being fully aware of who his customers are, no one outside of his company can ever say that for certainty in motorsport, just because you are listed on JG's website as a customer of his doesnt actually mean you really are, I know people in the states running NOS sponsored cars with that written all over them but actually running wizards kits instead.
#131
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Thats why I said *I THINK* rather than just making a statement that you definately would be surprised.
#132
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so revised list goes something like this
Pectel SQ6 management Ł3.5k prob more with upgrades
Loom Ł1000
Swedish roller barrel inlet plenum Ł5k
Nikasil wet linered 4x4 block with all machining Ł2k and oil jets etc
Ten stud kit Ł350
JG dry sump kit with girdle Ł7.5k
Arrow crank Ł2.5k to JG spec
arrow rods Ł1.2k prob to JG spec
billet pistons Ł 1k+ jg spec
New head Ł1.5k
Machining, porting, guides, valves and WRC headgasket Ł3k
Cams, solid lifters and springs Ł1.3k
Custom inconel shafted turbo Ł6k
Primary designs inconnel manifold Ł2.5k
RS200 Evo wastegate Ł600
Plating, bearings ,plugs,goodridge waterpump, seal housings gaskets consumables,ARP's,rocker cover,belts, pulleys Ł2k
Mapping and fuel Ł2k prob Ł10 a litre for fuel mind
Labour to build engine Ł1.5k
cop Ł 400
injectors Ł1k up to. dont know what they are
flywheel Ł400
feel free to quote with additions changes etc
nigh on Ł47 k there ....prices may vary terms and conditions on request lol[/QUOTE]
Pectel SQ6 management Ł3.5k prob more with upgrades
Loom Ł1000
Swedish roller barrel inlet plenum Ł5k
Nikasil wet linered 4x4 block with all machining Ł2k and oil jets etc
Ten stud kit Ł350
JG dry sump kit with girdle Ł7.5k
Arrow crank Ł2.5k to JG spec
arrow rods Ł1.2k prob to JG spec
billet pistons Ł 1k+ jg spec
New head Ł1.5k
Machining, porting, guides, valves and WRC headgasket Ł3k
Cams, solid lifters and springs Ł1.3k
Custom inconel shafted turbo Ł6k
Primary designs inconnel manifold Ł2.5k
RS200 Evo wastegate Ł600
Plating, bearings ,plugs,goodridge waterpump, seal housings gaskets consumables,ARP's,rocker cover,belts, pulleys Ł2k
Mapping and fuel Ł2k prob Ł10 a litre for fuel mind
Labour to build engine Ł1.5k
cop Ł 400
injectors Ł1k up to. dont know what they are
flywheel Ł400
feel free to quote with additions changes etc
nigh on Ł47 k there ....prices may vary terms and conditions on request lol[/QUOTE]
#134
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yes i would think so as a one off. but bearing in mind after the first few the machining,mapping etc should drop as you have base map and cnc programs and arrow have specs already. plus JG will ge trade prices so it wont cost him that to build but at retail thats what it would be.
be nice to see some of the cossie engine builders quotes/opinions ma dev,reyland,msd ,jimbo etc
be nice to see some of the cossie engine builders quotes/opinions ma dev,reyland,msd ,jimbo etc
Last edited by dug112y; 26-11-2010 at 02:51 PM.
#135
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It's clearly very expensive, but I can't help thinking it's a quesiton of you getting what you pay for - and not everyone has 'fingers-in-pies' nor the desire to assemble the component parts themselves. So - if you're fucking minted, and you want a mega strong, mega powerful YB engine, then you'd buy a JG engine regardless of the cost.
#136
Happily retired
#137
*** Sierra RS Custard ***
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Restricted race engines that need to conform to umpteen rules are something you need a lot of direct experience of building before you have any confidence quoting on them as you need to do so much development to find the right spec.
Of that list, I would imagine its only Jimbo (well more accurately Harvey) that have much experience of engines of this type as to the best of my knowlege he builds more restricted competition engines than the others do.
#139
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Thread Starter
#140
10K+ Poster!!
Even Danny said his block was Ł4.5k so thats a fair bit more than Mikes qouting.
I've just been looking at the build costs of a wrc S12 Subaru engine makes the JG engine look more than reasonable ! Can't find much related to the Ford stuff sadly but anything WRC is built to the highest standard and were not talking normal money.
I've just been looking at the build costs of a wrc S12 Subaru engine makes the JG engine look more than reasonable ! Can't find much related to the Ford stuff sadly but anything WRC is built to the highest standard and were not talking normal money.
#141
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of course i want it to be true. but would it not really need 'all'of the parts to make it competitive. there is a huge difference between a rallycross engine and a trackday engine IMO.
its not just a case of comparing parts and chucking them together...any monkey can put pistons and cranks in and assemble heads. a 'proper' race engine is a different kettle of fish ...again this is my humble opinion....but i dont claim to be able to build a countless championship winning engine for 30k.....you have that title mate
its not just a case of comparing parts and chucking them together...any monkey can put pistons and cranks in and assemble heads. a 'proper' race engine is a different kettle of fish ...again this is my humble opinion....but i dont claim to be able to build a countless championship winning engine for 30k.....you have that title mate
If you're that interested, why not click on my resto and see what went into it .
Obviously I have been able to "skimp" on some parts, because my use doesn't warrant it (dry sump as an example), but neither does it use many parts that are on other "track" cars .
#142
As a side point, is this still classed as a yb? Different block, head, crank, stroke, bore, compression ratio, cams, valves etc, what's left? What is it that defines it as a YB? Serious question, not a dig at anyone,
#143
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When I featured his car for Fast Ford, he said his biggest concern was for the box and that if it did go it would be a different box next time (T56 or TKO etc) rather than another big tooth T5
#144
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Even Danny said his block was Ł4.5k so thats a fair bit more than Mikes qouting.
I've just been looking at the build costs of a wrc S12 Subaru engine makes the JG engine look more than reasonable ! Can't find much related to the Ford stuff sadly but anything WRC is built to the highest standard and were not talking normal money.
I've just been looking at the build costs of a wrc S12 Subaru engine makes the JG engine look more than reasonable ! Can't find much related to the Ford stuff sadly but anything WRC is built to the highest standard and were not talking normal money.
#145
Happily retired
Why dont you all wait to see if it sells.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
#147
10K+ Poster!!
Why dont you all wait to see if it sells.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
Sorry but had to laugh at that.
Back to Mike, your STILL comparing YOUR engine to the one that AG had which from what it looks like is NOTHING like the one that is for sale even if when the prices were similar when new.
As you say your engine at one time would of been classed as a rallycross engine where as now its no where near the spec of one.
#148
10K+ Poster!!
#149
Boost Builder
#150
Caraholic
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Why dont you all wait to see if it sells.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
I won't deride Mark for the sake of retalliating, as I think too highly of him to do so , but I'm sure if I told Harvey I wanted to destroy my transmission on a regular basis he would gladly map the car for 2.7 bar . As it is, I'm more than happy with my baby responsive 550/450 engine (until Mark tests that new 650bhp BW turbo that has the same response as mine but the extra 100bhp ).
As to the championships, Harvey has had more winning cars than your car has had headgaskets (and THAT's saying something) . All in jest .
#151
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Why dont you all wait to see if it sells.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
Im sure Mike thinks Harvey could build a better engine which made me chuckle. The new owner wants a surge free engine with lots of torque, you cold pay Harvey Ł1million pounds & he would still fail .
Torqueless wonders dont win championships Mike they aint bad following the guy in front at a trackday though.
But buckle up my prediction was right were nearly half way there to the 10 pager
#152
10K+ Poster!!
This is not a dig Carlo but was that the same engine for 3 years ? I thought I'd heard it had a few failures which was one reason why he dry sumped it ?
Don't get me wrong its a race engine getting the beating of its life, even wrc engines fail so no one is perfect, just curious how reliable it was ?
Don't get me wrong its a race engine getting the beating of its life, even wrc engines fail so no one is perfect, just curious how reliable it was ?
#153
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Thread Starter
no but its had more than 500bhp for 3 to 4 of them
#155
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The 680 engine that andrew has most success with is still going strong mate wenny bought it ( dont think he has fitted it yet) that 680 engine started in the AM sport fiesta & so on through the white focus & the blue focus till the last year andrew had it. Then the 800 bhp motor was built , he started the last season with the 680 engine cause the 800 bhp one wasnt ready! The mk1 focus was a 618 engine thats in that mk2 escort now mapped to 570 on pump fuel
#156
Caraholic
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Sorry but had to laugh at that.
Back to Mike, your STILL comparing YOUR engine to the one that AG had which from what it looks like is NOTHING like the one that is for sale even if when the prices were similar when new.
As you say your engine at one time would of been classed as a rallycross engine where as now its no where near the spec of one.
However, with a few simple spec changes, I know my engine could be made competitive. However, I am unsure of the reasoning behind the dry sump set-up, as (NMS) Karl did a very detailed reasoning as to why you don't need this on a YB and it seems to add a considerable cost for very little potential gain, with plenty of potential catastrophic reliability issues (especially given the surface these cars race on)?
Anyway, a good bit of Friday fun .