My Escos has big brakes and compression struts fitted, and under braking and turn in, it is utterly stable and predictable. Before I fitted them lots of people said they are not worth sacraficing the front ARB for..

Having driven 2 different saffs with the standard ARB, but both with powerflex bushes & big brakes, they were noticably far more unstable hard on the brakes, and less precise on turn in.

For about £170,( Compbrake items) I would say they are one of the best handling mods for a Cosworth, tightens the car right up. Going to buy some for my Saff now!

 

i couldnt believe the difference when i fitted them either, and i never had mine set up lol

were did you got to have yours set up mate, as i may buy some for the sierra

 

Chemix, Just gave them figures I wanted as the car is totally adjustable front and rear, and they stuck it on the 4 wheel laser alignment bed, and did the job

 

Have you got them fitted with the adjustable TCA's Will?
Rich

 

just fitted compresion struts,adjstable tca's and coil overs anyone found the tcas are hard to adjust as the adjuster is up in the front crossmember

 

you can fit a grpa front rollbar which will make it even better.

 

I have a Group A ARB to go on if needed once the car goes on track, but it's running 480lb springs on the front so fairly stiff anyway.

Rich, I have the Compbrake TCA's as well, seem to work very well together.

 

what suspension are you using?
what are they like on the road?

i bought some then sold them before fitting them as i was told i would get to much roll unless i fitted higher lbs springs to my coilovers and then it would be horrible to drive on the road.

 

Got Bilstein 909's but gravel spec, so not stupidly hard.

The difference is huge IMHO, car just brakes HARD in a straight line, no wandering around at all unlike a car with no struts that seems to squirm. Well worth the trade off IMHO even for a slight increase in roll. Turn in is a lot sharper as well.

 

how do you find vertical damping charicteristics cornering etc now the arb isnt there??

 

Do you have to have coilover to use compression struts or is shocks and springs ok?

 

No mate can fit them to shocks+ springs, they bolt in from the tca mounting to the ARB clamp mounting.

 

Cheers Will

 

I said this to people over 10 years ago when I ran them on my first rally car, and I never ran any roll bars, never changed it to anything differant, stopped great and turned in great - never saw any reason to want to put a roll bar on that car.

 

What about any harshness, any downsides apart from a little extra roll ?
tabetha

 

ive got compbrake compression struts and TCA's on the 3dr, but they are not set up yet. that is next on the list after mapping.

i also have a set of esscentric top mounts, but these are so far unfitted.

can anyone shed any light on what settings to go for?

front only as the rear is stock with poly bushes

 

looks like these will be my next mod then!!1 been thinking about fitting them for ages

 

Fudgey, is your rear end adjustable?

Fronts, as a base setting, I would go with:

Toe: 2mm total toe out, 1mm each wheel
Camber: 2 degrees Negative on each wheel
Castor: 3'30 (three degrees thirty minutes)

Rear: 2 Degrees Negative
Toe: 1mm Total total, 0.5mm each wheel

Obviously you want minimal axel offset/ thrustline, but a good 4wd laser aligner will show you all that. It's a good base setting for the car, should turn in nice, self centre quite easily and not snap oversteer if you are running a decent rear beam.

 

Nice write up m8.

 

nice read , some usefull info for a change on here

 

should it not be

Toe: 2mm total toe in, 1mm each wheel?

sure mike rainbird told me it was toe in, i think

 

I wouldnt be wanting the front toe out on that pal at all if that was mine.

 

Depends on what you want mate.

Front End toe in will increase straight line stability, but slow down turn in. Toe out will speed up turn in, but straight line will be more unstable, or as most people feel it on cars with bigger wheels, "tramlining" in lorry grooves / over bumps etc.

Rear end toe affects the oversteer/understeer charicteristics.
The more toe in you have the more stable the car is, and the more it will understeer. Toe out promotes oversteer.

Look how badly standard Cosworths snap-oversteer, this is because over the rear suspension travel, the wheels go from 1 mm toe IN to over 3mm Toe out!!!

The ahmed/Danny B beams reduce this to under 1MM over the range of travel IIRC.

Mike I seem to remember likes the car to understeer very slightly on the limit, then tuck the nose in on lifting off the throttle, so his settings will reflect that.

I Like oversteer, so set my car up very slightly more agressivly at the rear.

Obviously, the settings I have written down are a base setting, so depending on your driving style, you can alter them to suit yourself.

 

What would you set it to for a road car Mark? I went for that just as a base setting, and it seems to be fantastic on turn in?

 

on a road car id be concerned with the way the tyres wear and the ho nervous that would make the car, what you also adjust it the TOOTS and the rate of turn (the ackerman angle) will be affected from the pair of wheels.
you may well find that on more than half lock the car refuses to turn, it can be down to preferance and there are very few willing or able to experiment - fair play to you for setting it how you like it !

If you want the car to turn in and promote power oversteer the rear toe out is your friend .

when you are giving your car some stick, keep a digital temp guage in the car and measure the tyre temps over your chosen route - the true way to check alignment/tyre imprint !

 

Regarding the rear toe, I set mine up like that so it would be reasonably safe until I get it mapped, and can push hard through corners, with the intention of adding more until the car is naturally slightly oversteery, but without being snappy?

I will play with the front toe if it kills tyres quickly, but stability seems to be fine, even down crappy back lanes and on rutted motorways. (Obviously fine is IMHO, someone used to a mondeo might think differently!)

The other thing is the car is entirely solid, only the rear diff mount is Poly, and the engine /gearbox mounts vibratechnic, so the settings will vary far less dynamically than with a rubber/ poly bushed car.

 

I like cars that are very neutral for the road, I hate extreme road cars, then motorsport is my thing, cant really see my alhambra with power oversteer lol

Running costs are paramount to anyone these days imho, tyres need to last as long s possible. I would be looking at maybe 1mm total convergance on the from and maybe 2-3mm in on the back, and between 1.5 2.0mm neg camber up front, the castor is your choice if you can get the adjustabilit and retain all wheel and lock clearance (most cant ) the rear needs to be just off the pirpedicualr if you have a good rear suspension travel, if not you have to factor your bump steer in to the setup.

no two cars with fully adjustable setups will be the same !

 

the only possible draw back is the COMPBRAKE ones on my escort both snapped the clamping bolts holding them onto the tca,s , i drilled & re tapped them to m12

as above they could snap




:w all:

 

I ran the older version of them on my Group n ish car for years on gravel and never broke one, they are designed to enable the suspension to lift up and down, that is as long as you fit them correctly, if you turn them 90degrees then they with pull the bolts out till they snap. then bolts do nothing whilst the car is going forward on that set up really other than locate the position, the load is very minimal on the bolts. going up to an M12 will not change a thing on that im afraid andy.

My WRC ones only have an M10.

 

Very very shocked to see people are running these on a road car

even more so that they are buying the very very poor quality comp brake stuff

 

has anyone ever tried tapping threads to the arb behind the tca's so you can adjust the standard arb? so you will have a nut either side?

would this be a good idea to adjust the castor?

 

why shocked paul?- if there good enough for the woodyard!!(pickering for those who dont know-what a site on a cold frozen morning veiwing the rac!!) why not the road?
i sort of agree with you but why i do im not sure ?

 

I think Chip had some pics up shimming the ARB to either increase/equalize side the side the caster setting?

Might have been on a car being set up for drifting

 

Because on a road car for comfort you want to be getting some of your total roll resistance from an ARB so that your springs dont have to be so hard.
If you remove the ARB, to get the same roll resistance you had before you need to go up on spring rates.
If you have all your roll resistance in the springs it will FEEL great as the car will turn in so well, but ultimately you are likely to compromise on overall grip.
Its one of those funny situations where what feels best isnt always what actually is when you look at your ability in terms of ultimate corner speed.

One thing I totally agree with though from the OP is that compression struts under braking in a straight line are great.

 

interesting bttt.

 

Exactly

Plus try driving a car with these fitted in the wet

Because your spring rate will be so high and no roll the car will just go straight on

Funny how people are now fitting full spec rally car parts to road cars

 

As has been said, for a road car, I would prefer to use something that retains an ARB (for the reasons mentioned).

However, regarding stability, I would check all the bushes on the cars you have tested, as my car pulls up completely straight and true and is on standard set up with Powerflex bushes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwwQG5VL_sY

Personally, I would be spending the money on a better rear beam before even considering changing ANYTHING on the front end (I know you have Will, but this is for those that haven't).

I hope it's as good on track as you hope it is (see Chip's comments ).

 

The fun will be finding out! I have a Group A bladed ARB to go on if needed, so could drop the front spring rate quite a bit if it would improve the overall grip.

What is surprising is that even on poor roads, running relativly stiff springs/ damping, the car feels compliant and planted, not crashy like some coilover set-ups? Gone is the horrid bouncyness of the old Konis as well, which may be down to age or poor spring choice, but a few cars I have driven with konis seem just a bit too soft?

Obviously it is all a compromise, with my Escos hopefully being as close to a Road/track balance as possible.

 

i was getting my car out the garage & up the drive so minimal suspension travel at walking speed.
my car is 4x4 so they do quiet a lot while on the throttle .

the probable cause of them breaking is possibly the fact that comp brake supplied zinc plated bolts

 

Bladed ARB is best possible solution, you can have as much or as litle as you want then (within he confines of its max and min adjustment of course!)