MikeR

What are peoples thoughts on this ? do people think total independence is a good thing for England and or Scotland. What do the Scots here think ? is it just Alex Salmon stiring publisity up?

Mike

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Personally i couldn't give a shit

Unless of course tax will be miles less, speed limit increased etc

Alan_D

I'm with Lampchop... also don't give a shit. Isn't most of the arguement that we could do ok on our own based on oil at the moment? That isn't going to last forever.

Would rather things just stayed as they are. Less hastle.

Roscco

Me too, can't see how it'll change anything for me specificly. Unless of course we get Tanks and fast jets and nukes and a BIG submarine i'm just no interested.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

who?!

Alan_D

Haha, sorry that was a typo Lambchud, won't happen again.

timrud

Good news for England and we subsidse Scotland.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im not sure that is correct given the amount of revenue we have plundered from the scottish north sea over the years in natural gas and oil.

But as thats probably running out now, I say cut scotland free before it becomes a millstone round london's neck, but the same is true of the rest of the uk too, I say we should give independance to everywhere outside of the M25

Alan_D

Ahahaha!

Have any facts to back that statement up?

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Chip for starting your post so well

I think we'll all be surprised how long the Oil still lasts for. New developments happening all the time and plenty new ways to extract old "finished" reserves.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

This is true, most of the time when they stop drilling a well, its just because current technology doesnt allow them to do so for a low enough cost per barrel anymore so its cheaper to cap it and move on, but obviously as reserves get lower and technology improves, its worth going back and revisiting.

So I guess we should put up with the scots for another couple of decades until we are really sure we've raped their resources of all they have to give, then toss them aside after that once we know they have nothing left useful for us to take.

Wales is the one that needs to go first, fuck knows why we persist with supporting them, we should have fucked them off when the coalminers stopped being useful in the 70s

Paddy

Bring back Hadrian's wall!

In fact, I'm going to do a night school class in bricklaying and offer every bit of help I can.

Vive la revolution!

Let's cut the Welsh off next. Their constant singing bores me.

Coldo

Not overly fussed.

Not really sure how it would work either, haven't followed it in any depth.

Would we be expected to have our own army/healthcare etc? Or would that still be "Great Britain"?

I think though, Scotland seems to be in a better economic state than England (although still fucked), so in that respect it may be ok.

From where i stand, I dont see many benefits in the long run, but as said, i don't know much about the proposed ideas etc...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The welsh need to go first, and they are far easier to cut off, there arent many of them in the north anyway to worry about, so we can manage that with a few machine gun towers, and the south is a piece of piss cause all you need to do is blow up a couple of bridges, so no need for even building any walls.

It would be so easy to do, I cant even begin to imagine why we continue to tolerate them.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You wouldnt need your own army as the only people who are close enough to invade you are england, and if we have just given you away we're hardly going to want to go to war again to have you back.

Alan_D

What about the muslims trying to get in? Someone will need to deal with them.

timrud

I'd like to see fact that back up scotland subsidises england then if I'm wrong?

rog

iTrader: (2)

Personally I think it's bad to break up the "union", without sounding negative i don;'t think Scotland has fuck all to offer to be any better off without being part of the UK, if your short sighted, there's oil that won't last for more than another 40 years or so, but that gets extended all the time, but still not exactly a good basis to base any arguement.As for the subsidises bollocks, the amount of times I've heard that crap is unreal, it's complete and utter pish, the likes of which you read about in "The Sun" etc...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They tend to wander up from england anyway, so paddy's wall will stop them getting up to you guys as well as stop you guys getting down to us.

although it might be worth us installing a one way door on this wall now that I think about it, so you end up with anyone seeking asylum who wouldnt profit us economically as we can just pass them over to you then

Paddy

You've obviously put far more thought into this than I have and for that, I salute you.

If you need any enthusiastic generals, you have my number.

I would however like to extend the cutting off of Wales to include Birmingham, if at all possible please.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Correct. In the beginning you could only drill verticle holes

Brian ST-2

iTrader: (1)

It's not a case of anyone subsidising anyone else really.
Yes, the ''British'' government have gleaned the national wealth of the oil from off the coast of Scotland, but as the majority of the seabed around the British Isles is owned by ''the Crown'' we can lay little claim to that.

Scotland is apparently in a pretty viable financial situation. Yes, we would then hence keep the revenues from oil.!!! We go get it, bring it onshore, refine it, and sell it to you lot. We're also a recognised leader in new North Sea technology, renewable energy, various drilling techniques ( although supported by worldwide energy companies ) and various other aspects, so no, per capita, we're not doing too badly.

And at the last recognised count there were apparently more millionaires per head in Edinburgh that anywhere else in the Uk.

Done.......Brian, ex pat gazumping your country lol.!!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I did consider that but only after we have relocated all the motor shows to the london venues, so the NEC earns brum a stay of execution till then.

It's Czech Mate

I'd like to see an independant scotland and wales, they may have oil revenue, but also a crippling welfare bill. England would be so much better off if Scotland and Wales are independant, like they keep saying they want to be. Although i'm not sure they are sustainable as financially independant.

After all, they've made us pay to have their own parliaments built for them so why dont they use them.
Then we in England might have an English Governent with English issues and interests at heart as opposed to a load of colonials who are just interested in their own little empires funded by our taxes.

Paddy

As English isn't your first language, I'll forgive the spelling mistake.

I've lost faith in your leadership. We need someone who's not afraid to cut off dead wood.

Granted, Birmingham is the centre of true British culture [] but can anyone REALLY stand the accent?

Alan_D

Who's the 'they' you are talking about? The SNP?

I read a recent report which said that Scotland balanced itself out, so in the short-term, would be no better or worse off without England. I do hope you're trolling.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

timrud

I'm still not seeing hard facts that Scotland could be self sufficient.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I doubt anyone can be arsed to go and collate them for you just for a thread on PF, so you'll have to do so yourself if you are really interested in the exact profit and loss statement for them as a whole.

Going to be massively subjective as to what you include or not though, like for example how much should we be paying them to keep most of our naval nuclear force docked up there, or will we take that back down to plymouth after the 2 countries seperate etc?

It's Czech Mate

I read lots of recent reports that suggested Scotland would be fucked in not so many words. I feel i'm qualified to comment by virtue of the fact i'm a trained economist, and the business I work for has three subsidiary companies in Scotland that I work with, and we deal with people on benefits, with educational needs and out of work people, trying to help them back into work and I can probably paint a very accurate picture of the position of the Welfare state in Scotland as I mainly deal with funding ( ie the government )

So yeah, thats my ( reasonably qualified opinion ), are you trolling?

rog

iTrader: (2)

So no one in England is on benefits then??

It's Czech Mate

Nobody has said they arent?

But England has substantially more revenue to sustain its welfare state

rog

iTrader: (2)

Juding by what????What's the ratio of the cost of welfare Vs. income tax in scotland and england?

Alan_D

To be fair, 'experts' all have their opinions, and some fail to see the bigger picture at times. For instance, the financial experts didn't see what would happen to the banks until it was too late. It has also been mentioned above that the welfare is in a mess. I'm sure there are messes in England too... just in other areas. How does that give you a full picture of what Scotland has to offer?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

id like to see where the extra tax funding for free prescriptions and free uni actually comes from - where in scotland have they cut back to fund it?? or is it subsidised by us???

I suspect its subsidised!!

It's Czech Mate

I dont know the numbers, but from what i've read Scotland has the higher cost vs income


Jus tthe simple measure of GDP per capita should be enough to tell you the effects of independance. I did read some projected figures last week. I'll try to dig them out


All you really need to think about is that if independace was so easy and such a good idea for Scotland, why hasnt it happened? The Parliamentry infrastructure is already there. Its just the others arent!

rog

iTrader: (2)

Personally i think the whole thing is pointless, if you live in the North east where I'm from you'll find that all this crap is driven from the central belt of scotland, and the scottish government can't see past edinburgh/glasgow (so they can't even get that right), Aberdeen is fortunate that it's a relatively affluent city by comparison, and without slating other cities in scotland (who i won't mention), there are some really scummy places that are basically fcked because they have nothing going for them.

Alan_D

It's only the SNP who are banging on about this. Hardly anyone wants independence, and the ones who do are the mongs on benefits(they don't even have anything to base an opinion on, other than 'FREEEEDDOOOM')

It's Czech Mate

Public Spend VS GDP in Europe

4th Scotland 57.7%
26th England 44.2%

To Add

Gross-Value-Added calculations provided by government statisticians show London with a GVA of 136, South-East England with 115, and Scotland with 99 (100 being the UK average). So the Scots are less productive with then the UK as a whole. [Source: The Economist].

Scottish GDP-PPP/capita is only US$33,680 to England's $38,000 [Source: The Economist].

It's Czech Mate

Same as England, without the North East we'd be much better off, but IMO, ( with my sensible non baiting head on ) if we ( Britain ) are to survive as an Island then we really need to unite and make it easier to act as a single trading entity with the rest of Europe and the US, otherwise we will all be fucked and controlled by Brussels