Scottish Independence
01-12-2009, 07:58 PM
#81
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01-12-2009, 08:02 PM
#82
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According to the BBC it's going up 60% from £4.1bn this year to £6.4bn next, partly because Tony Bliar and Big Gogs gave away 20% of the annual rebate. Nice job, guys.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8219344.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8219344.stm
01-12-2009, 08:14 PM
#86
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Sorry a bit OT but tags are funny... Chip seems common theme.
Iain, TBH you seem to be dead set into this, and not going to have big debate. But if people opp north want to speak then up to them. TBH i think it will be rejected, but what ever the outcome is its their choice. What really gets my goat about parties like SNP etc and plaid, while they may have some good polices i hate the fact they always blame "them down London" for all the bad decisions mistakes Chip on shoulder always springs to mind.
Also i think some of your facts are based on propoganda via SNP as you also claim mine are.
You claim about all the renewable energy, fine but i could not imagine the Scottish Govt paying for it, as its not the cheapest way at the moment
Oil money, well there is no reserves of cash like Norway. So are you saying you would now build up all revenue to start doing that? If so i am sure there would be a fair size budget deficit, as to match current spending you would need to use that money now.
Out of EU? lol yeah right!
At the end of the day there are positives and negatives as anything in life, If Scotland went indepandandt i think it would be a shame, but for England personal view i dont think the people would be that bothered.
Iain, TBH you seem to be dead set into this, and not going to have big debate. But if people opp north want to speak then up to them. TBH i think it will be rejected, but what ever the outcome is its their choice. What really gets my goat about parties like SNP etc and plaid, while they may have some good polices i hate the fact they always blame "them down London" for all the bad decisions mistakes Chip on shoulder always springs to mind.
Also i think some of your facts are based on propoganda via SNP as you also claim mine are.
You claim about all the renewable energy, fine but i could not imagine the Scottish Govt paying for it, as its not the cheapest way at the moment
Oil money, well there is no reserves of cash like Norway. So are you saying you would now build up all revenue to start doing that? If so i am sure there would be a fair size budget deficit, as to match current spending you would need to use that money now.Out of EU? lol yeah right!
At the end of the day there are positives and negatives as anything in life, If Scotland went indepandandt i think it would be a shame, but for England personal view i dont think the people would be that bothered.
01-12-2009, 08:15 PM
#87
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Oh dear. How about putting anything up to justify any single aspect of what you have written?
In 30 years Norway have built a fund that should last them forever.
With our population of 5 million, we would be ranked mid-table among the 223 independent countries, so that would make us an average-sized country, not a small one. Norway and others seem to cope just fine and, as I keep telling the wife, size isn't everything!"
Coal is just one of our natural resources and, despite Thatcher's best efforts, it is still an active industry in many parts of the country, not just in the south-west.
Ship-building is in decline - no getting away from it, but as an independent country free to decide whether we want to be in europe or not, we could take our own decisions on where to have public sector vessels like the auxilliary marine, ferries etc built taking proper account of the cost of building elsewhere and having to pay unemployment benefit to our own ship-builders while foregoing their income taxes.
"English" Army be damned - it is still the British Army. The funny thing about it is that the Jocks are very over-represented in the infantry in all major theatres of operations, but the actual military spend is about £4bn per annum light north of the border compared to what it should be.
Tourism will continue to be important to an independent Scotland, but who thinks anyone will stop coming because our politicians are sitting in Edinburgh instead of London?
We didn't ask for the nuclear power stations and have now blocked any new ones - good move in a country with abundant scope for wind/hydro/wave power - but will be stuck with the decommissioning costs unless you want the UK government to come and take their rubbish south of the border.
While they are doing it, they may like to collect the rusting nuclear subs tied up at Rosyth - just a few miles from here and Edinburgh. If they are so safe, why aren't they tied up in Portsmouth, Southampton or on the Thames?
We don't have to join the EU because we are already in and there is no mechanism for us to be ejected on independence. Personally I'd be happy to be out like so many other successful countries happily trading with EU states but not governed by them. Or maybe the remainder of the UK will also be ejected at that time and we all have to re-apply? With most of Europe's oil, wave-power technology, fisheries and who knows what else, do you think the EU would prefer to have Scotland or England as a member?
Show me ANY reliable figures on how much England has paid to build us up, or any plans they have to improve our infrastructure? You mentioned rail. That will be the high speed rail link that is planned to stop at Manchester?
Sorry matey, can't agree with anything you have trotted out here.
In 30 years Norway have built a fund that should last them forever.
With our population of 5 million, we would be ranked mid-table among the 223 independent countries, so that would make us an average-sized country, not a small one. Norway and others seem to cope just fine and, as I keep telling the wife, size isn't everything!"
Coal is just one of our natural resources and, despite Thatcher's best efforts, it is still an active industry in many parts of the country, not just in the south-west.
Ship-building is in decline - no getting away from it, but as an independent country free to decide whether we want to be in europe or not, we could take our own decisions on where to have public sector vessels like the auxilliary marine, ferries etc built taking proper account of the cost of building elsewhere and having to pay unemployment benefit to our own ship-builders while foregoing their income taxes.
"English" Army be damned - it is still the British Army. The funny thing about it is that the Jocks are very over-represented in the infantry in all major theatres of operations, but the actual military spend is about £4bn per annum light north of the border compared to what it should be.
Tourism will continue to be important to an independent Scotland, but who thinks anyone will stop coming because our politicians are sitting in Edinburgh instead of London?
We didn't ask for the nuclear power stations and have now blocked any new ones - good move in a country with abundant scope for wind/hydro/wave power - but will be stuck with the decommissioning costs unless you want the UK government to come and take their rubbish south of the border.
While they are doing it, they may like to collect the rusting nuclear subs tied up at Rosyth - just a few miles from here and Edinburgh. If they are so safe, why aren't they tied up in Portsmouth, Southampton or on the Thames?
We don't have to join the EU because we are already in and there is no mechanism for us to be ejected on independence. Personally I'd be happy to be out like so many other successful countries happily trading with EU states but not governed by them. Or maybe the remainder of the UK will also be ejected at that time and we all have to re-apply? With most of Europe's oil, wave-power technology, fisheries and who knows what else, do you think the EU would prefer to have Scotland or England as a member?
Show me ANY reliable figures on how much England has paid to build us up, or any plans they have to improve our infrastructure? You mentioned rail. That will be the high speed rail link that is planned to stop at Manchester?
Sorry matey, can't agree with anything you have trotted out here.
Funny ... Where's all your Facts / Figures?
End of the day. Go alone .. Say goodbye to Most of the UK Benefits ..
01-12-2009, 08:21 PM
#88
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01-12-2009, 08:25 PM
#89
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UK Gross National Income per Capita is shown as £33,630, Canada is £28,310 Australia is £27,070, and New Zealand is at £19,990.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...l%20Income.pdf
None of these countries appear in the list of those receiving aid.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...%20-%20Aid.pdf
01-12-2009, 08:27 PM
#90
PassionFord Post Whore!!
If necessary I can provide links to independent verification of most, if not all, of the points I've made. Can you?
What benefits do I get from being in the UK that I wouldn't have in an independent Scotland?
01-12-2009, 09:05 PM
#91
............
Wouldnt matter if he did, you'd rubbish them anyway unless they happen to back up your point of view.
I provided stats from the National office of Statistics, which have been quoted in a very well repected independant publication.
Unless you can show me the flaws in the data those figures are plenty good enough for me
01-12-2009, 09:28 PM
#92
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Scotland can and should go it alone.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3954031.ece
http://www.alba.org.uk/scotching/greatdeception.html
All the facts and figures you want right there.
SMG
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3954031.ece
http://www.alba.org.uk/scotching/greatdeception.html
All the facts and figures you want right there.
SMG
Last edited by Smiggy; 01-12-2009 at 09:29 PM.
01-12-2009, 09:47 PM
#93
............
Scotland can and should go it alone.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3954031.ece
http://www.alba.org.uk/scotching/greatdeception.html
All the facts and figures you want right there.
SMG
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3954031.ece
http://www.alba.org.uk/scotching/greatdeception.html
All the facts and figures you want right there.
SMG
Anyways, its obviously not as clear cut as quoting some numbers otherwise it would have been done, either by us dumping the Scots or the Scots wanting to break free.
The argument will rage
01-12-2009, 10:11 PM
#95
I'm not sure he's right. I've had a look on the Commonwealth website and the UK government one but can't find any mention of this funding.
UK Gross National Income per Capita is shown as £33,630, Canada is £28,310 Australia is £27,070, and New Zealand is at £19,990.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...l%20Income.pdf
None of these countries appear in the list of those receiving aid.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...%20-%20Aid.pdf
UK Gross National Income per Capita is shown as £33,630, Canada is £28,310 Australia is £27,070, and New Zealand is at £19,990.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...l%20Income.pdf
None of these countries appear in the list of those receiving aid.
http://www.commonwealth-of-nations.o...%20-%20Aid.pdf
Fair play chap just going by what he told me
Last edited by mechanic28; 01-12-2009 at 10:12 PM.
01-12-2009, 10:11 PM
#96
Professional Waffler
Too right, dig a big fooking river between the countries too or erect a berlin type wall up with lookouts and snipers to keep the jocks out LOL
Erm, dont give a toss really!
Erm, dont give a toss really!
01-12-2009, 10:26 PM
#103
basicly we have shit loads of oil in dorset the same as north sea oil but its all in the cliffs etc we jsut cant get it out at the mo,technology dont exsist at the mo,
Was watching a programme about it at the weekend on sky!
Plus we got all the stuff in the falkland islands
Was watching a programme about it at the weekend on sky!
Plus we got all the stuff in the falkland islands
01-12-2009, 10:30 PM
#105
basicly we have shit loads of oil in dorset the same as north sea oil but its all in the cliffs etc we jsut cant get it out at the mo,technology dont exsist at the mo,
Was watching a programme about it at the weekend on sky!
Plus we got all the stuff in the falkland islands
Was watching a programme about it at the weekend on sky!
Plus we got all the stuff in the falkland islands
Typical!
"england have lots of oil"
"we have lots of stuff in the falklands"
yeah the UK do you fuckwit
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
#113
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Wouldnt matter if he did, you'd rubbish them anyway unless they happen to back up your point of view.
I provided stats from the National office of Statistics, which have been quoted in a very well repected independant publication.
Unless you can show me the flaws in the data those figures are plenty good enough for me
I provided stats from the National office of Statistics, which have been quoted in a very well repected independant publication.
Unless you can show me the flaws in the data those figures are plenty good enough for me
I haven't rubbished anything where evidence has been provided, but I have and will continue to challenge some assertions made. You mentioned the NSO figures but didn't tell us what they were or how they were calculated and I said that they weren't necessarily reliable and gave jmy own income tax and company corporation tax as an example of what might be termed missapplied tax revenues to support my comment.
The Government Expenditure & Revenues Report Scotland was first published in 1992 and was held up by Tories and Labour for years as being the definitive report. Then some SNP economists asked the right questions and discovered things that were charged to Scotland that had no connection at all to us, such as the English High Court system, while parts of our revenues were allocated elsewhere.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6267881.stm
These anomalies were corrected and now the same report shows Scotland in surplus for the last three years while the UK ran a deficit throughout the period. The link to the Scottish (SNP) Government summary is here http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Rele...09/06/18155737
and from there you can click the link top right to go the raw data if you would like to check it. And just to be clear, the GERS report comes from Westminster, not Edinburgh/the SNP.
But do you know what - I don't know that either of us will trust this as accurate, so I'm going to give it a rest and let others take a turn at the debate.
01-12-2009, 10:39 PM
#114
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id just give them their independence tbh
cut them off completely,theyll only fall flat on their face
look at the unemployement,crime and poverty whats costing the government, is that miraculously gonna vanish with independence?
your 2 biggest football clubs are good indication of how much pride you got in your country,one carries a union jack and the other an irish tricolor lol
cut them off completely,theyll only fall flat on their face
look at the unemployement,crime and poverty whats costing the government, is that miraculously gonna vanish with independence?
your 2 biggest football clubs are good indication of how much pride you got in your country,one carries a union jack and the other an irish tricolor lol
01-12-2009, 10:42 PM
#116
id just give them their independence tbh
cut them off completely,theyll only fall flat on their face
look at the unemployement,crime and poverty whats costing the government, is that miraculously gonna vanish with independence?
your 2 biggest football clubs are good indication of how much pride you got in your country,one carries a union jack and the other an irish tricolor lol
cut them off completely,theyll only fall flat on their face
look at the unemployement,crime and poverty whats costing the government, is that miraculously gonna vanish with independence?
your 2 biggest football clubs are good indication of how much pride you got in your country,one carries a union jack and the other an irish tricolor lol
01-12-2009, 10:44 PM
#118
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