Martyn

My missus has just got a new manager/shop owner at work and she is saying she wants to change from weekly pay to monthly at the drop of a hat, no written or advance warning. She went in today to be told that she wouldnt be paid tomorrow as its going to be monthly now, so shes fucked with one weeks money to last 3 more weeks!
Shes also said they have to put a deposit down on their new uniforms and has taken 20 quid out their wages to account for it.
Shes not given any advance or written warning for either of these things, can she legally do that?

Ginge !

can they fook
time for legal advice, they should have to allow for a loan atleast to get them by thats payed back
if not as its new year theres loads of spare money in the till
as for deducting money from wages , ya gotta sign permission for it
butb then most people dont wanna argue incase they loose there job
big nige is a fooki g gem with all this type of infomation, dont think theres anythign about employment kaw he dont know ( or driving offence laws either )

EDITED TO TAKE ALL THE FOOKING GAPS OUT

TIFF

Aye ,Ginge is right there

NO-ONE can remove funds funds from your account without written permission

S2martin

At my place they planned to give us 3 months notice plus pay us a bridging (spl) loan to cover the 3 weeks of no money and pay it back at peanuts a month as the boss said they have to give notice and have a loan availible (spl) and no they cannot take a penny off of her apart from stopping tax and nat-ins





Martin

Ginge !

hey im nopt as dumb as i act then

Ian M

no one can make deductions from your wage without permission.
no one can make you pay for company clothing especially if you need to wear it for health and safety.
you are entitled to be paid weekly if that is your wish.
you are entitled to be paid in cash if that is your wish.
your employment contract cannot be changed without giving 90 days notice.

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

and you do not have to accept your new terms on your contract.. if you dont agree withe them .. i they cause you to have a diverse difference in conditions

Anonymous

But keep in mind that she might not want to fall out with her new boss straight away over something so trivial as a couple of weeks of wages.

Ginge !

well depeneds as that could be the start, my firm have taken a few people for a coont at times, they even tried with me and i had to set em straight, otherwise why have a contract


its a bit likw saying to ya boss " im not gonna work monday to friday from next week as its not convinient "



bet hes not gonna stay nice to ya and avoid falling out with em


belive it or not empolyment law is there to protect ya from the new boss deciding new things like this !!!!!




if they aint a fan of it they could always sack her, then she would have a even better case

Ginge !

oh and chip if you boss decided to remove money off you anf then said im now gonna stop the money ya need to live on for 3 weeks tomorow when ya expecting to get payed



i prob would have done more than tell me other half and ask advice

Martyn

Hi, I'm Martyns missus

The new owner started on December 15th, which was our weekly pay day also
we were all paid from the previous owner and she dropped the bombshell on the very first day she took over that she would be changing payment to monthly, we weren't asked, we were told.
SHE decided to change the uniforms at work to different colours, we all had perfectly fine uniforms beforehand, there was no need to change them, and again she told us that she would be deducting £20 from our wages which we will get back when we leave the company, not asked, told.
We get paid on Wednesdays and last week on payday she said we would "hopefully" be paid by the end of the day, and offered me a cheque instead, which wouldn't have cleared till after the new year!
I stand my ground and finally get the cash (as we were paid that way by the previous owner), should have been £127, I check my envelope when I get home and all I had in there was 3 £20 notes so I had to go back to work to get the right money.
Tomorrow is payday, she's now paying directly into bank accounts, which is fine, but what is not fine is that she said she only did it last night so they won't clear into our accounts until Friday.
Shes transferring to monthly pay (which no-one has given written permission for) over the next month, tomorrows weekly pay has to last us 2 weeks, and the next fornights pay has to last us the month.
So not only are we getting paid late this week, one weeks worth has to last 2 weeks, AND, she's deducted the £20 for our uniforms, of all the fucking weeks to do it.

It turns out she does indeed have written permission for the uniform deduction unfortunately, we had to sign and date the form she gave us all that wanted name/addy/bank details etc, and in fine print at the bottom was the notice about the decuction, which until I thought about today, didn't realise I'd signed for tbh.

I'm furious, yet at the same time unable to speak up about it because she has a habit of sacking people willy nilly, she sacked one staff member for calling in sick over 2 days, no verbal/written warning, just sacked him...by all means he can take her to court and get it sorted, but in the meantime he's out of a job

I'd be more than willing to take her to court if she sacked me, but I can't afford to be out of a job in the mean time and quite frankly I don't want to be driven out of the job I adore by her

Ginge !

why not get legal advice before ya speak to her, nice letter off ya soliciter, im sure shes not totally stupid



oh and if shes the manager is there a higher boss to speak to or not


otherwise time to skim the tills on her lunch break



if shes like that though in 6 months time ya gonna hate the job as all ya mates are gonna leave and then she will replace with staff she likes ect


i say get legal action as she fooking needs it !

Graceland

new management then? look up he TUPE law - conditions gotta remain the same, or betterrrrrrrrrrrr, by law for 9 months

TONY C

call ACAS, there are very helpfull on these things,

08457474747 or there web site,

WWW.ACAS.CO.UK

TC

Ginge !

tupe is for when new companies take over and ya have a new employer


then what they do is offer a pay rise of a smal tiny ammount and ya sig a contract that then turns ya holidays half, wok bank holidays for same money and ll other crap like that


they tried that when i was a traffic warden and they offerd me a extra 30p per hour, then after 6 months all the silly fookers that signed a contract stating they hve to work 3 different shifts that finish as late as 10pm now have to work till 10pm


even though they was told at the time the companies contract is the same for all contracts they have, hence the 10pm finishing time


me and me mate never signed it as we didnt trust the whole " dont worry that will never be a thing where planning to do " we was told off our duty managers



good luck and keep us informed in what happens

Martyn

I work at Subway, and all stores are franchise I've just got off the phone from the DA (development agent and her boss) and he's basically said that as she's the owner she can basically run it how she wishes, and it's his job more on the brand side of things, making sure all menu items are available, blah de blah, the ins and outs of wages etc is up to her, so he was about as uselful as tits on a fish

No contracts have ever been signed also, I didn't sign any with the previous owner, or this one

tonyk

Here is a quote from the brisitsh employment site that should help you;

ERA 1996 s.4 is entitled "Employer's duty to give statement of changes".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BASIC POSITION
Adverse (to the employee) changes in existing terms of employment are usually made in one of three ways:-

by agreement with the employee(s), possibly with a cash "sweetener";
by unilateral variation of contract terms (or of works rules applied by the contracts); or
by giving required notice to terminate existing contracts and offering new contracts on new terms.
Choices open to an employee are:-
go along with the employer's proposals;
reject them and quit, perhaps claiming constructive dismissal , or
reject them but continue to work on a without prejudice basis (ie "uinder protest") on the new terms, reserving all rights, negotiating if possible and ultimately bringing court or Tribunal proceedings if agreement cannot be reached.
A unilateral change to terms and conditions of employment made by an employer without agreement of the employee will normally be a breach of contract. One result is that the ordinary civil courts will have jurisdiction as well as (or instead of) an employment tribunal (see notes at Employment tribunals/jurisdiction of ). This can be important because the courts have greater powers than tribunals to award compensation in breach of contract cases and because legal aid may be available in the civil courts but (save in exceptional cases in Scotland) is not available in employment tribunal cases. Employees in particular would be well advised to take expert legal advice in any such case.
It should be noted that even a clause agreed by an employee giving the employer the right to make unilateral changes to contract terms or works rules will not normally give the employer a total carte blanche. An employee may still be able to claim constructive dismissal if the employer makes significant changes (see eg Bass Leisure Ltd v Thomas [1994] IRLR 104 and Lee & ors v GEC Plessey Telecommunications [1993] IRLR 383 and Star Newspapers v Jordan 1993 EAT, unreported). Employers in particular would be well advised to take expert legal advice in any such case.

For application of the continuity of employment rules when there is a change of terms of employment, see CONTINUOUS EMPLOYMENT/change of terms with same employer . Special rules apply if a change of terms occurs on change of ownership of a business (see Transfer of business or undertaking/change in terms of employment after ).

Changes in terms of employment must be notified to employees within one month, or sometimes sooner if overseas work is involved (see Statement of particulars of employment & ERA 1996 s.4). It is essential that employees are fully aware of, and accept, any detrimental changes to their terms of employment if the changes are to be legally binding. Acceptance can sometimes be inferred by the employee's conduct (eg continuing to work without objecting to the change -see Bainbridge v Circuit Foil (UK) Ltd CA 1997 ICR 541, CA for a general review by the Court of Appeal).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the position where there are changes in terms of employment after a business has been sold or transferred see Transfer of business or undertaking/change in terms of employment after .







FINISH>
updated April2004.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dates appearing after the "FINISH>" sign above refer to date of preparation of, or most recent update to, this page. Content of the site generally is updated approx 3 weekly save during law vacation. The most recent general update is based on law as known at 8th December 2004 .
Throughout this site main notes are on this colour background. Recent developments (currently approx 9 to 12 months before 8th December 2004 ) are on this colour background and marked "rd" in the index(es). The New! tag indicates a change within 3 to 4 weeks before 8th December 2004 .

This advice should be used as a basic guide and is not a substitute for professional legal advice, which should always be taken in any event. I am still only studying for my full law degree.

Big G

I am not in the know as to the legalities of all this BUT,
Having not signed a contract with the previous owner then signing something kind of official with the new owner sounds like youve been caught by the short n curlies.

Youve said that you adore the job and cant afford to lose your job, It may be a bitter pill to swallow but surely its better to ride the waves for this short term for a long term advantage.

IE - Be skint for 3 weeks and keep your job OR kick up a stink and have no job, Harsh but could be true.

BigNige

Thinks its pretty much been covered off to death

No one can make and unathourised deduction from wages unless YOU agree to it

The changing of weekly to monthly CAN be done only with reasonable notice and then it would be a change to you working conditions

This would then become your contracted payment method

Teh usual process is to ensure that the employee IS NOT put out of pocket so they shoul give an advance on salary or a bridging loan that is repayed at an agreed level

the uniform bit they CANNOT take the money upfront they can only get you to sign to say you HAVE the uniform and if it isnt retuerned at the end then they will deduct salary to cover it

The recovery has to be on a sliding scale that basically says after approx 12mths the uniform not being returned would mean ZERO deductions

Call ACAS they are VERY good , You would have a reasonable case of constructive dismisssal if you were to leave

Nige

Ginge !

see told ya nige knows everything



sooooooooooo glad hes not my boss

saff_cossie

I had the same issue when I worked for the NHS about 6 years ago. They wanted to put us on monthly pay instead of fortnightly. They were willing to give us 2 months notice which was not unreasonable but could never give us a definate date. Instead a lot of scaremongering (sp?) went on with rumors flying around about how we were currently in that 2 month period and the monthly pay would start next week.

I would see a union rep if you have one, UNISON were really good for us and may even offer you advice if you are not a member, perhaps for a small fee.

Hope you get it sorted

BigNige

Thanks BigBal

this stuff is a daily occurence for me being an Ops director so its easy to repply to them

And YOU would love me to be your boss

You would be fine until you fucked up then oh boy oh boy .....

Nige

Ginge !

ops director, though ya was a pizza delivery boy


i wouold hate for you to be my boss as the only reason im never sacked is i make up imaginary employment laws and once used my pc for a headed paper from my union rep to avoid getting sacked



dont think that would work somehow woth you

BigNige

LOL i think your right


It wouldn't work with me but good to hear people try that and get away with it

Id ask you to confirm the law you had quoted then use the actual law on you

It would make for a fun disciplinary meeting

N

Ps i started in catering as a pizza delivery boy 10 Years ago so correct

neilm

And people think in this day and age there is no need to be a member of a Trade Union ? ? ?


Things like this are incredibly difficult unless you have some form of backing or you can get a united front with other employees and sadly in this modern culture of 'Thatcher Children' its all me me me and looking out for number one so you often find that to your face everyone is behind you... however, infront of management that can all soon disappear.

If you kick up a stink then your card will no doubt be marked and the employer will just find an excuse to get rid of you a few months down the line with something like 'redundancy'.

Handle with care, be tactful, and good luck.

BigNige

Neil M

I agree with you on unions

However the unions were their own worst enemy ????

Ni

Ginge !

very veryu true

they aint that bad nowadays, sometimes they are very very useful too


redundancy is hard in a shop though


nige thats alot of hard work for 10 years , fair play to ya

Martyn

I spoke to ACAS this morning, unfortunatly nothing can really be done about the wages, because if you wanted to file a complaint then by the time it gets to being sorted, you will of had your pay anyway, which cancels out the complaint!
Sounds abit backwards to me, cause you would be doing it because your wages dates have changed, so even though you have now been paid the fact still remains that your dates were changed
All he said you can really do is make the new owner aware of TUPE, but even then there is no set amount of time that they cant change things for.
Just have to make her aware of it and hope she takes more notice in the near future

SapphyMike

with redundancy you cannot employ anybody in the same position for a set amount of time as well.. so if she were made redundant, then her boss couldnt replace her for so many months, all iirc.

Ginge !

yeah but thats why they employ new job descriptions


they layed out staff employment department all off and then the started a personel deparment with all graduates to employ the staff and train staff in the same department


that was a old job of mine




i still say plan B, rob the bitch till shes asking you for spare money for electric in her house

BigNige

TUPE is about the protection of your missus's rights at work and the uniform is a right they cannot change especially taking cash upfront

Also the ACAS bit is bollox about nothing to be done because she would have been paid thats a crock due to the fact that her pay cycle is still changed without her agreeing

I suggest she speaks to the new owner and tells her the concerns she has and how they can work together around this without the involvment of ACAS escpecially to help with the change in pay cycle

n

svony

iTrader: (3)

In addition to what was said above I would suggest having a copy of the laws and guidelines to show the new owner so she doesn't take you for a moron.

neilm

Mate this isnt the winter of discontent you know...

And as for Arthur Scargill... everything he said came true, every word of it.

But people conveniently forget to mention that part of it all.

And Ford should be grateful that BL spent half their lives on strike and when they were at work they produced shite like the Marina and Allegro.


Modern Unions operate in a much more 'sensible' fashion with some of the slickest lawyers in the game, if you have a genuine case you will have all the protection in the world and if you cant get your job back then you can be sure of a decent settlement.

People should think of union subs in the same way they pay Legal Protection cover along side their other insurances etc, its just an 'insurance' so if an employer tries to have you over you are protected.


The only other alternative is just to get another job.

Billabong

Neil, is your new nickname "Wolfy" ?

neilm

Bill, you best pass round the chairs mate as that will have just sailed over so many peoples heads...

Billabong

Neil, with your good self, I reckon I could've put "Foxy" and you'd have still got it.....



"See, he's still got it!! OOOOOOOH!"

BigNige

"power to the people"

nige

great program