Anonymous

Am intending to run in the 330bhp or so region from my 3 door, but will (like on nearly all my other cars) run nitrous on it as well.

Ill be looking at a total output of probably no more than 450bhp, what do i need to be looking at doing to make it reliable at that level?

Obviously i know i will need a cometic or WRC gasket for it, but other than that what else will be needed?


Thanks in advance for your help


Chip

Disabled Account

AFAIK If the wire rings are done properly, they will be OK, even beyond 450 BHP........

No need to use expensive head gaskets either as when the block is wire rung you can use the cheap late Es Cos head gasket £ 19.98 each.

I would hope that 1 or 2 of the pro tuners/engine builders on here can confirm the above.......

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Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Wire ringing still uses the standard head bolts which stretch over time and have a finite life 8-12k miles depending on use.

Go for the WRC gasket and long studding. I have NEVER had a failure with this set up.

NOS is for spazzers .

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Wire ringing, done well, is very effective, but then so are numerous other methoids, although none so cheap as wire ringing.

WRC gasket is fine for almost any power level but can NOT be used with wire rings

Anonymous

LOL, nice to see some anti nitrous feeling here, i get that on other forums too.

Ideally i would prefer not to have to remove the engine and wire ring it as this is only a bit of a runaround car and i dont want to be spending time working on an old sierra that i could be spending on my nova instead, so a WRC gasket and the correct studs sounds like a plan.

Thanks for the advice lads.





Chip

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The Cossie can have the power you want to gain with NOS, by just changing turbo injectors etc, so you can have the power required ALL the time. The only reason I don't like NOS is that it runs out and you then go back to the power the car had without it .

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

engine normally has to come out if you wanna long stud it as well though mate

I use a genuine Mountune WRC gasket and longstuds by the way... no problems at all so far

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Mike, your car wont be too quick when your petrol runs out either

Anonymous

Agreed, but this way i get 450bhp and NO lag at all.
Without nitrous to get 450bhp i have to put up with lag, or start running expensive and damaging anti lag.

Also my economy would be far worse.

IMHO 350bhp in a rwd only cossie is plenty for 99% of the time, so im quite happy with that power level, then for the other 1% of the time im happy to have a bottle that will run out.

Im afraid im not the enthusiasts that you boys are, to me its just a fairly quick old car that is good fun.
The thing i enjoy most from a car is the 60-100mph performance, and the mini im building will never be competed with by any cossie in that region cause they are just too heavy.

The other thing is the nova i need to spend some time on im along way into working on and just want to get finished, if i start "getting into" the cossie too much it will distract me and i wont finnish the nova which would be a real shame.

I'll probably come back to the cossie in a year or two when the other cars are done and do the cossie properly though

Anonymous

Im not familiar with "long stud" conversions, is it not just a case of drilling the holes deeper and helicoiling them then?

Whats involved?


Whats the best gasket i can run with the engine in the car, i KNOW that if i pull the engine out then it will be 2 years and 5 grand before it ever goes back in again so i want to avoid that.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

WRC gasket, std bolts. You will be fine.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Stu,
That has go to be the most stupid comment that I have ever seen you write . I can just see the size of the bottle required to provide the NOS for the same amount of time a tank of fuel would last .

Also, I can just pull straight into ANY garage to fill up with fuel - how are you going to do that with NOS? .

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Behave Mike, most folk cant hold WOT on the road for more than a few seconds

Especially not a road full of roundabouts

Anonymous

Stu, thanks WRC + standard bolts it is then.


Mike, ive never had a problem with the nitrous running out, i have a refill bottle at one of my workshops so its dead easy to keep topped up, even at 4am when the local petrol station is shut, LOL

Disabled Account

Long studding can only be done in a proper engineering shop on a bare block. Very expensive, especially when you add the cost of the long studs and WRC gasket. It is however the "proper job" for big power conversions.

On a budget the "O" rings (wire ringing) makes much more sense, with the correct jig the grooves for the rings can be cut into the block while engine is still in the car (as Paul Bailey did on both my Saphs).....then with a late Es Cossie gasket and perhaps better quality head bolts (i.e. not the standard stretch bolts), you have a solution that wont cost a small fortune and importentaly will do the job

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Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

A few pics:


This shot shows the length required to get to teh crank webs. Also beware of copy studs, buy genuine only: (Black is genuine)

Anonymous

Doug, if i can find someone down south to wire ring it in the car that sounds like a good option.

How will that compare to a WRC gasket with ARP head studs though?

Anyone on here use cometic gaskets?
They work find on vauxhall engines with 450bhp and ARP studs, is it worth considering one for my cossie too?

Anonymous

Ah, Stu it all makes sense now!

I didnt realise that when you lads used the term "long studding" it mean strapping the head to the crank webbing, thats a technique im familiar with and is WAY over the top for what i want from my cheap and cheerful 3 door, if im going drag racing i'll be in the mini anyway.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Ive so far only had one Cometic gasket failure to my knowledge and run them on many engines, my own included.

Anonymous

Well, better the devil i know!

So ARP's and a cometic it is then.

Disabled Account

Pricewise it works out a lot cheaper to use wire rings in the long term. Ones the grooves are machined into the block face.

Example: If you have to remove the head in the future (for whatever reason) then all you have to do is buy is a new cheap late Es Cos head gasket (£ 19.98), new head bolts (not sure if the ARP ones are reusable) and fit new wire rings.

On big power/high boost YB engones, normally you would not want to use a fibreous head gasket as the boost cylinder pressures pushes the h/gasket steel rings outwards (so the gasket fails), but with "O" rings they bite into the steel h/gasket rings and prevent them from moving outwards.

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Anonymous

The cometic ones are metal anyway

Disabled Account

As Stu said they are good.

I think the main problems that people have with Cometics is when they try to reuse them..........

AFAIK they are often sold as a "reusable" gasket, in practice a failure is much more likely when you have reused one for the second/third time

Anonymous

Ive reused a cometic one before and not had a failure, but i only re-used it after it was compressed and then the head came off before it had run, so not really re-use in the greatest sense of the word.

It was fine after coming off and back on again though from that.

Cant comment on what happens after you have run the engine for a few thousand miles first, but i cant see it making any difference to how i did it.

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Evening Chip,

I ran a Cometic one on stage 3 / 320bhp with standard bolts - no problems for 5 thousand miles. Then cracked the head after a water hose split whilst on track, spent a fortune buying a new head, and have so far done around 2000 miles on a £6, yes £6 headgasket bought from Woodford Garage - again on stage 3 closer to 330/340 bhp now with standard head bolts.

All good so far, as I reach for the nearest piece of wood to touch!


Ref your other post about which Turbo to use, I have T34 with .55 housing and another T34 with .63 housing - the difference isn't huge in the way they feel, but the .63 is slightly laggier.

Hardly a techinical breakdown, but just my experiences!

Have a Wizards Of Nos Nitrous kit here to go on the Cossie soon, but a little concerned about the clutch at the mo so that may have to wait. Maybe a run aginst your car running nos will convince me to get the gas on and clutch sorted - get that Cossie going ASAP!!

See ya at the next South West meet!

Si

Anonymous

Trust me mate the cossie will be on the road as quickly as i can possibly make it legal, hopefully not more than a few weeks but its all down the speed the dvla work (or dont work, lol) at.

I think once you go in a car with gas you will probably want some for yourself, the difference is very noticeable.

See you at the SW meet, ill be easy to spot, ill be the one in the volvo estate, lol.