Hello all,

what do i have to need and change if i want distrib.less ignition on my saph 4wd cossie.

what are the good and the bads about it.

thanks

 

 

the main advantage is supposed to be a more powerful spark at the plug as it doesn't have to first jump the gap between rotor arm and distributor cap. secondly, you can forget about maintenance of the cap and rotor arm. thirdly, you can use different plug leads, or even install a coil on each plug so that you don't need HT leads at all (if you're clever enough ).

to do it, you still need a phase sensor somehow, so either keep the one in your distributor body (which would be a bit crap), make one to run from the same place, or make one to run from a camshaft (both camshafts and the auxilliary shaft all run at the same speed - i.e. crankshaft / 2, so you can fit a phase sensor on either of them).

then you need some electronics to change the pulsed output from the ecu that normally operates the coil to give an output from each coil. normally you can do this with a second ignition amplifier and run what's known as wasted spark - where you have 2 spark plugs connected to one coil that fires twice in the cycle - one for each time the spark plug that is in the cylinder under compression is ready for it, and one time on one that is in the opposite phase of the cycle (hence the spark is wasted as there is no compressed mixture to ignite).

 

To trigger off the camshaft you need a 909 trigger and the cam machined...I have a drawing somewhere.....the plhase sensor is a standard item and as per foreigneRS you will need a second ignition amplifier....the only other problem is your rev counter will need to be able to read as a 2 stroke!!!

HTH

Ian

 

I can supply a module that does all this for Ł200 and even drives the rev counter
properly and does NOT require any chip mods or extra sensors

 

what do you mean?

only a module with the standard stuff on my 4wd saph?

 

Yes, it works on ANY cossie (with weber managment) and requires only
the extra ignition amplifier. No modifications to the ECU or chip are required.
No extra sensors or engine mods are required apart from the ignition leads to
suit the coilpack you use. (Zetec type recomended not supplied)
It works by connecting 7 wires to the existing ecu connector
(solder wires on back off hairbrush connector)
the unit intelligently increases the coil dwell time based on RPM which gives a
stronger spark during mid to high rpm (2800 - 9999) rpm.

Some tuners here on PF have used this device.
It can be fitted DIY but you do need reasonable electronics experience.
I would always recomend it to be fitted proffesionally.

This device is made to order only and takes about 5-7 days delivery

 

SECS, could you modify the module so it has 4 ignition triggers i.e. so you could run a coil per cylinder?

Also does this mod work on pectel modified webber ECU's? (Super 8)

 

Yes and Yes.
The ecu type is irrelavant as long as its a YB engine
with the standard configuration sensors (Map sensor excluded)

Crank sensor: 4 tooth type
Phase sensor: distributor 2 tooth type

The distributor must still be fitted as this drives the oil pump and
phase sensor.
The ignition cap becomes little more than a cover.
It really freaks people out to see a dizzi cap with no leads and the
engine running.

 

So Ł200 gets me a module which i solder into ECU connector, and this will enable me to run a coil on each cylinder, and has a proper RPM trigger for my tacho?

Would i be able to run 2 of these dual ignition amps to run the coils instead of having to use 4 std cossie ign modules? :



Or even one of these Bosh Quad ign modules? :

 

you don't need 2 dual ones, or 4 single ones. you can use just 2 drivers and use the wasted spark principle.

 

Yes, That is spot on either method can be used as long as
I know when order is placed

 

As long as the golden rule is followed...

1 coil, 1 driver irrespective of how many plugs that coil drives.


Follow this and all will be ok.

 

ok....i guess im not so electric technical afterall

 

Coolio

What i was thinking about doing is mounting 4 coils direct into the cam cover like they do in some BMW's / Nissans / Ferrari's etc so i can do away with ignition leads altogether.

I'll do some investigation as to what i need to do exactley to get this lot to fit and if it's viable i'll definately have the module

Does the wasted spark method effectively halve the life of your spark plugs?

 

Yes it does, but you can run bigger gaps for an improved idle and
no spark blow out under boost.

 

So if i wanted to run a wasted spark setup with one coil per cylinder i would use your module (2 driver version), one dual ign module and have trigger A going into coils 1 + 4 and trigger B going into coils 2 + 3 ?

 

a little bit to technical for me.

 

simon will this work with a FRST coilpack ?

 

wes,

No this breaks my golden rule 1 coil 1 driver (amplifier).

For 1 seperate coil per cylinder, you will need 4 seperate ignition amplifier drivers.
Then you either use ....

1) Normal/standard unit (2 outputs each driving 2 amplifiers inputs)

2) 4 output version unit each driving a seperate amplifier input

Hope this makes sense.

 

Yes

 

Is this worth doing whatever spec your engine Simon?

 

I think i get it yes, so i'd need the normal 2 driver module, a quad bosch ign module, and wire it up as per the diagram for a wasted spark system?

 

On all the YB engines we have done with the phase sensor on cam....the dizzy is replaced by machined plug which has a bearing in the top that accepts a modified shaft and oil pump drive.....but for less hassle your system sounds fantastic !!

 

I got an ignition amp on the way Si.

Will try and sort a coil pack this weekend.

I'll give you a shout when I have it all

 

Darrone3dr, I would recomend this for stage 3 onwards but would
do this anyway as it is better than the dizzi cap which dont forget,
has 4 spark gaps and moving parts that all wear out too.
Plus the king lead (coil to dizzi cap) is an organic carbon product which
wears out. Also, it is less suseptable to damp starting problems.
Generally, the only part that will ever need replacing is the spark plugs
provided high quality metal cored leads are used.

One word of caution though, coil packs generate significantly higher energy
pulses which can kill. Never places your hands near or on any part of
the high tension system whilst the engine is running.
I have seen gaps of 2 inches jumped by a spark on my engine with the lead off !

 

Hmmm, interesting. Could be my next mod!

How much am I looking at for the whole lot?

 

Darrone3dr,
I will have a think about the price for a complete kit as usually I only supply
the converter module.

 

im waiting for my leads as we speak then i have one of simons modules to go on

 

Rs Gus, I had better pull my finger out then

 

youve not made it yet im booked in saturday

 

Dont panic, I will give Stu a call tomorrow

 

dont let me down simon

 

Cheers mate!!