T66 power - super unleaded / solid lifters
#281
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I would be interested in hearing Stu's veiw and Karl's on this subject but understanbly we never will (this is not a diss or what ever you call it)
Mike
Mike
#282
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Stu surprises us all from time to time by commenting on stuff we dont think he will do for political reasons, so maybe we will get lucky in this instance, cause i would also love to hear his views
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#283
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I think when people like Stu and Karl and even Tony Mannock comment on these things people seem to have a respect for them that stops them giving them abuse and questioning them about there knowledge,
Mike
Mike
#284
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I think its more a case of they explain it well enough you dont need to question them, and because what they say makes sense.
Ive personally got an enormous amount of respect for those 3, but if any of them said something i didnt agree with i would question it (I would expect them to be right and me to be wrong, but i would question it anyway!)
Ive personally got an enormous amount of respect for those 3, but if any of them said something i didnt agree with i would question it (I would expect them to be right and me to be wrong, but i would question it anyway!)
#285
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Ive personally got an enormous amount of respect for those 3, but if any of them said something i didnt agree with i would question it (I would expect them to be right and me to be wrong, but i would question it anyway!)
..yeah thats my philosophy PMSL
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#291
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CossieRich,
we're very sorry that the spec of the engine does not suit you
bloody hell we could of used a stroker if need,but as Chip has already said 4x4 transmission and all that goes with it
we're very sorry that the spec of the engine does not suit you
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bloody hell we could of used a stroker if need,but as Chip has already said 4x4 transmission and all that goes with it
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#292
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Originally Posted by justin.e
CossieRich,
we're very sorry that the spec of the engine does not suit you
bloody hell we could of used a stroker if need,but as Chip has already said 4x4 transmission and all that goes with it![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
we're very sorry that the spec of the engine does not suit you
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bloody hell we could of used a stroker if need,but as Chip has already said 4x4 transmission and all that goes with it
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What about 4x4 and all that goes with it?
#293
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The reason why Karl dont come here is cause he is too busy now that he is running a full time company...before he was doin it from his house and working full time elsewhere...this gave him time to interact.
#294
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Originally Posted by MAD YUM
What about 4x4 and all that goes with it?
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Kinda similar to an Evo FQ-400, I can see the only reason for the huge lag being for the sake of transmission, after all they offer a warranty.
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#296
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Barry GTi,
exactly
this car and engine was built for both road and some track use not for 8k launches etc....thats why its fitted with a new rd front diff and not the 8.5 inch ford motorsport front diff and sump(which go for about 10k second hand)...
exactly
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this car and engine was built for both road and some track use not for 8k launches etc....thats why its fitted with a new rd front diff and not the 8.5 inch ford motorsport front diff and sump(which go for about 10k second hand)...
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Originally Posted by Captain Mike
I always thought Karl did it full time from home much like Mark,
Shows what i know
Mike
Shows what i know
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Mike
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Mark doesnt work from home these days either mate, he has a unit he works out of instead now.
#301
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Originally Posted by SapphyMike
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Mark doesnt work from home these days either mate, he has a unit he works out of instead now.
#302
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Mark doesnt work from home these days either mate, he has a unit he works out of instead now.
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Mike
#303
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Rich,
This is a really simplistic explanation in an attempt to show you what I mean, and I don't doubt that SOME of it IS down to spec, but not ALL.
Lets say the given idustry standard for correction is 20°C. Let's say that in April a T4 engine made 500bhp and 400lb, but the dyno cell temperature (as recorded by the Superflow sensor) was an accurate and true 10°C.
The computer then says, hang on a cotton-picking minute, you made 500bhp and 400lb in better than normal conditions, so if the temp's had been 20°C, you wouldn't have made so much power etc, and so corrects the power to what it thinks you would have made in those conditions, pulling it back to 480bhp and 375lb ft.
In the unit next door, is another dyno, that has not be set up to strict TUV type approval
. The engine makes the same uncorrected power, but due to where the temps sensor is, it thinks that it is 30°C. Again, it says - hang on a cotton-picking minute, you made 500bhp and 400lb in worse than normal conditions, so if the temps had been 20°C, you would have made much more power etc, amd so corrects the power to what it thinks you would have made in those conditions, topping it up to 520bhp and 425lb ft of torque.
Owner A then puts his dyno sheet up on PF and owner B puts up the same. Owner A gets slated for having too little torque - get my drift?
As I said, this is not a dig at Mark, but for you to compare dynos, Simon would have to have his set up to the strict TUV type approval. It would then be the same as Harvey's, Mountunes and Ford's own at Dunton.
Also, FYI, the Superflow dynos read in metric and have to have the figures changed over to imperial in a conversion table that is set up in the software. If this is not entered correctly (1.35491), then again, it can give hi or low torque readings.
This is a really simplistic explanation in an attempt to show you what I mean, and I don't doubt that SOME of it IS down to spec, but not ALL.
Lets say the given idustry standard for correction is 20°C. Let's say that in April a T4 engine made 500bhp and 400lb, but the dyno cell temperature (as recorded by the Superflow sensor) was an accurate and true 10°C.
The computer then says, hang on a cotton-picking minute, you made 500bhp and 400lb in better than normal conditions, so if the temp's had been 20°C, you wouldn't have made so much power etc, and so corrects the power to what it thinks you would have made in those conditions, pulling it back to 480bhp and 375lb ft.
In the unit next door, is another dyno, that has not be set up to strict TUV type approval
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Owner A then puts his dyno sheet up on PF and owner B puts up the same. Owner A gets slated for having too little torque - get my drift?
As I said, this is not a dig at Mark, but for you to compare dynos, Simon would have to have his set up to the strict TUV type approval. It would then be the same as Harvey's, Mountunes and Ford's own at Dunton.
Also, FYI, the Superflow dynos read in metric and have to have the figures changed over to imperial in a conversion table that is set up in the software. If this is not entered correctly (1.35491), then again, it can give hi or low torque readings.
#304
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Translation of what mike just put:
BLAH BLAH BLAH excuse excuse BLAH BLAH
Justin is saying that torque is low to preserve the gearbox, now you are making out it isnt and its just down to the dyno showing wrong?
Which is true?
BLAH BLAH BLAH excuse excuse BLAH BLAH
Justin is saying that torque is low to preserve the gearbox, now you are making out it isnt and its just down to the dyno showing wrong?
Which is true?
#305
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Translation of what mike just put:
BLAH BLAH BLAH excuse excuse BLAH BLAH
Justin is saying that torque is low to preserve the gearbox, now you are making out it isnt and its just down to the dyno showing wrong?
Which is true?
BLAH BLAH BLAH excuse excuse BLAH BLAH
Justin is saying that torque is low to preserve the gearbox, now you are making out it isnt and its just down to the dyno showing wrong?
Which is true?
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#307
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Chip,
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
just seems odd that some people are not happy with the end result bar the person who comissioned the build
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
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#308
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I give in. All engine dynos are identical, all rolling roads are identical, there is no such thing as correction factors and no such thing as conversion factors. All engines are equal or power figures are equal. There are absolutely no discrepancies from rolling road to rolling road and engine dyno to engine dyno what-so-ever. Apples can be directly compared to chalk and cheese can be compared to oranges
.
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#309
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Justin,
It seems your sarcastic reply to me early has gone very wrong and has actually made you look rather silly mate. Either it is down to saving the gearbox or as Mike has just said 455 lb/ft isnt about saving a gearbox. So which is it
accept that like a man
Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
It seems your sarcastic reply to me early has gone very wrong and has actually made you look rather silly mate. Either it is down to saving the gearbox or as Mike has just said 455 lb/ft isnt about saving a gearbox. So which is it
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Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
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#310
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I give in. All engine dynos are identical, all rolling roads are identical, there is no such thing as correction factors and no such thing as conversion factors. All engines are equal or power figures are equal. There are absolutely no discrepancies from rolling road to rolling road and engine dyno to engine dyno what-so-ever. Apples can be directly compared to chalk and cheese can be compared to oranges
.
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#312
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Originally Posted by justin.e
Chip,
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
just seems odd that some people are not happy with the end result bar the person who comissioned the build
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
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#313
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Originally Posted by MADRod
Originally Posted by justin.e
Chip,
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
just seems odd that some people are not happy with the end result bar the person who comissioned the build
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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#314
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Tony's engine was designed to be a rev monster which it is
so those cams will dictate what torque it makes which partially explains the difference the rest of the difference is due to the fact that Harveys dyno is tuv type aproved hope this clears that up Rich?
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#315
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Originally Posted by justin.e
Tony's engine was designed to be a rev monster which it is
so those cams will dictate what torque it makes which partially explains the difference the rest of the difference is due to the fact that Harveys dyno is tuv type aproved hope this clears that up Rich?
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that
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#316
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Originally Posted by justin.e
Tony's engine was designed to be a rev monster which it is ![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
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Originally Posted by justin.e
so those cams will dictate what torque it makes
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Originally Posted by justin.e
which partially explains the difference the rest of the difference is due to the fact that Harveys dyno is tuv type aproved hope this clears that up Rich?
But hey 2/3 is pretty good
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Group hug?
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#317
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Yum
you take the piss out of Tonys mid range what did your make at 8k...
going back to the crank pulley issued you had on the dyno would that have swung your cam timing??
you take the piss out of Tonys mid range what did your make at 8k...
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going back to the crank pulley issued you had on the dyno would that have swung your cam timing??
#320
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Originally Posted by justin.e
Yum
you take the piss out of Tonys mid range what did your make at 8k...
going back to the crank pulley issued you had on the dyno would that have swung your cam timing??
you take the piss out of Tonys mid range what did your make at 8k...
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
going back to the crank pulley issued you had on the dyno would that have swung your cam timing??
I only realised this after the dyno and this happed as the engine was biult before we was going to use SM4,
The result was the ignition problem on the dyno about 7K which caused the power to drop as the Igntion angle was changing and the ecu was cutting it,
Which means if we went back to the dyno it would produce more power higher and more power in the midrange as we could only run X amount of ign with the cut.
Mark