MikeR

I would be interested in hearing Stu's veiw and Karl's on this subject but understanbly we never will (this is not a diss or what ever you call it)


Mike

Anonymous

Stu surprises us all from time to time by commenting on stuff we dont think he will do for political reasons, so maybe we will get lucky in this instance, cause i would also love to hear his views

MikeR

I think when people like Stu and Karl and even Tony Mannock comment on these things people seem to have a respect for them that stops them giving them abuse and questioning them about there knowledge,

Mike

Anonymous

I think its more a case of they explain it well enough you dont need to question them, and because what they say makes sense.

Ive personally got an enormous amount of respect for those 3, but if any of them said something i didnt agree with i would question it (I would expect them to be right and me to be wrong, but i would question it anyway!)

Anonymous

..yeah thats my philosophy PMSL

MikeR

Chip you are slightly more clued in then most people on here about engines though lets be honest,


Mike

SapphyMike

Karl doesnt use PF anymore.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

For this particular thread that may be a good thing because if Karl was here, then Dingy would start posting and this thread would have been locked ages ago

MikeR

SapphyMike i am aware of that but with some threads i am sure he is made aware of there content and people involved,

Mike

Anonymous

Was that a "i dont like PF im leaving" thing from Karl then or is it just a case of he is too busy to bother?


Shame if he has gone for good, his replies were ALWAYS interesting IME

justin.e

CossieRich,
we're very sorry that the spec of the engine does not suit you
bloody hell we could of used a stroker if need,but as Chip has already said 4x4 transmission and all that goes with it

Anonymous

The reason why Karl dont come here is cause he is too busy now that he is running a full time company...before he was doin it from his house and working full time elsewhere...this gave him time to interact.

Barry_GTi

I assume he means he doesn't want the huge torque spike, remember that's what kills trans not bhp. So maybe he doesn't want to spend large amounts on FFD boxes and the like, and I can totally see his point

Kinda similar to an Evo FQ-400, I can see the only reason for the huge lag being for the sake of transmission, after all they offer a warranty.

SapphyMike

As phil said, hes ver busy, and quite rightly so

justin.e

Barry GTi,
exactly
this car and engine was built for both road and some track use not for 8k launches etc....thats why its fitted with a new rd front diff and not the 8.5 inch ford motorsport front diff and sump(which go for about 10k second hand)...

MikeR

I always thought Karl did it full time from home much like Mark,

Shows what i know

Mike

SapphyMike

he pretty much did, but now he has a proper unit, hes got even more to do, plus with Ollie and Mark there, theres other jobs to do too.

Anonymous

Mark doesnt work from home these days either mate, he has a unit he works out of instead now.

SapphyMike

It is possible Karl could be busier than Mark, and therefore Mark has the time to come on the forum?

Anonymous

Its possible the Karl could be working part time as a male escort for an agency called "short and sweet" but like your above question ive no idea if its true or not.

MikeR

I know his work shop could do with a tidy though


Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rich,
This is a really simplistic explanation in an attempt to show you what I mean, and I don't doubt that SOME of it IS down to spec, but not ALL.

Lets say the given idustry standard for correction is 20°C. Let's say that in April a T4 engine made 500bhp and 400lb, but the dyno cell temperature (as recorded by the Superflow sensor) was an accurate and true 10°C.

The computer then says, hang on a cotton-picking minute, you made 500bhp and 400lb in better than normal conditions, so if the temp's had been 20°C, you wouldn't have made so much power etc, and so corrects the power to what it thinks you would have made in those conditions, pulling it back to 480bhp and 375lb ft.

In the unit next door, is another dyno, that has not be set up to strict TUV type approval . The engine makes the same uncorrected power, but due to where the temps sensor is, it thinks that it is 30°C. Again, it says - hang on a cotton-picking minute, you made 500bhp and 400lb in worse than normal conditions, so if the temps had been 20°C, you would have made much more power etc, amd so corrects the power to what it thinks you would have made in those conditions, topping it up to 520bhp and 425lb ft of torque.

Owner A then puts his dyno sheet up on PF and owner B puts up the same. Owner A gets slated for having too little torque - get my drift?

As I said, this is not a dig at Mark, but for you to compare dynos, Simon would have to have his set up to the strict TUV type approval. It would then be the same as Harvey's, Mountunes and Ford's own at Dunton.

Also, FYI, the Superflow dynos read in metric and have to have the figures changed over to imperial in a conversion table that is set up in the software. If this is not entered correctly (1.35491), then again, it can give hi or low torque readings.

Anonymous

Translation of what mike just put:



BLAH BLAH BLAH excuse excuse BLAH BLAH





Justin is saying that torque is low to preserve the gearbox, now you are making out it isnt and its just down to the dyno showing wrong?


Which is true?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I said SOME of it was down to spec, but I hardly think 455lb ft is gearbox saving, perhaps if it had made 355lb ft, I would have agreed .

justin.e

Chip,
what Iam saying is the engine is specced for road use with some track days if Tony wanted more power or torque it would have been specced accordingly just seems odd that some people are not happy with the end result bar the person who comissioned the build

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I give in. All engine dynos are identical, all rolling roads are identical, there is no such thing as correction factors and no such thing as conversion factors. All engines are equal or power figures are equal. There are absolutely no discrepancies from rolling road to rolling road and engine dyno to engine dyno what-so-ever. Apples can be directly compared to chalk and cheese can be compared to oranges .

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Justin,

It seems your sarcastic reply to me early has gone very wrong and has actually made you look rather silly mate. Either it is down to saving the gearbox or as Mike has just said 455 lb/ft isnt about saving a gearbox. So which is it accept that like a man

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Barry_GTi

Well thank fuck for that!!

Anonymous

Keep kidding yourself matey, you may believe it some day. Its another Gibb gearbox saver is it, give him one thing hes a salesman . '

justin.e

Tony's engine was designed to be a rev monster which it is so those cams will dictate what torque it makes which partially explains the difference the rest of the difference is due to the fact that Harveys dyno is tuv type aproved hope this clears that up Rich?

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Justin,

that I have no problem whatsoever with how the engine is as one its not my engine and 2 the owner is happy. People must look past the fact that i am part of MAD CAMP and then the subject can be discussed properly

Anonymous

Sounds fair enough, what many of us have been saying anyway

Sounds fair enough, what many of us have been saying anyway

I think many of us who have seen the results from the MAD cars compared to the dyno figures will not agree with that.

But hey 2/3 is pretty good





Group hug?

justin.e

Yum
you take the piss out of Tonys mid range what did your make at 8k...
going back to the crank pulley issued you had on the dyno would that have swung your cam timing??

MikeR

Chip you are actually being quite witty here

Mike

Anonymous

It happens now and then, must be a full moon out

Mark Shead

The crank pulley caused a input lead angle problem with the Ecu which was causing the problem this was due to it being modifed for use with a SM2 and not the SM4,
I only realised this after the dyno and this happed as the engine was biult before we was going to use SM4,
The result was the ignition problem on the dyno about 7K which caused the power to drop as the Igntion angle was changing and the ecu was cutting it,
Which means if we went back to the dyno it would produce more power higher and more power in the midrange as we could only run X amount of ign with the cut.

Mark