Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I thought that's what they said about blokes with big noses ?

POPEYE

lucky you are ugly with a big nose then

justin.e

Yum,
just read about your top speed run with your old engine
what kind off gearing are you going to use for your new attempt as your engine seems to hit a brick wall at 7100k??does this become an issue for top speed run's??If so how do ye get around it?
sorry if its a stupid question but Iam not big up on this top speed stuff

DaveEscos

Does it chafe your nose Mike as it hangs down?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Justin,
Rod had the same issue with one of his earlier engines, and they had to alter the gearing with different tyres / wheels etc, to get it spot on . So Dave may have to do something similar if he finds that it won't pull beyond a certain rpm barrier . However, although the power tales off, it is still making significantly more than his T38 engine, so it is all in perspective .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Are you "allowed" to clarify ?

ballin

iTrader: (1)

rod your sig is too big

foreigneRS

good post this. interesting and entertaining reading for any outsider

if it affects torque, it obviously affects power by the same amount in percentage terms as they are a direct factor of each other

whatever the arguments are, the owner of the engine obviously had some requirements to his builder/mapper that he is happy with. if he uses the engine on track, his requirements may well have been a lot different to a road users (i.e. wants power to hang on at the top end vs. lower end torque). perhaps that may explain some things?

and has a few missing " ' "

Anonymous

Mike you still didnt answer why you think Jullian Godfrey is a no no...i know you dont like hi comp BUT i am sure he would build what you asked..BUT he dynoes them and has many many customers so surely you cant argue that what he does wont be reliable?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Doesn't quite work like that . There is a relationship bewteen the two, but it isn't identical .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Please feel free to explain then .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

No other reason than what I stated. Building engines designed to run on race fuel is totally different to building engines designed to run on road fuel.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to try and explain things, but i still dont understand or grasp what you are saying? Daves old engine made 470 bhp with a max of 430 lb/ft i think using a T38 at 2.3 bar. Regardless of what dyno you use or what setup the dyno runs surely a T66 turbo pushing 2.3 bar with the correct cams and inlet will make over 500 lb/ft? I dont see how it cant tbh. Maybe i am missing something here but I shy away from asking questions about others engines for reasons that have already been said, but i started it so i will keep asking until i understand.

Anonymous

Yes it fucking is in percentage terms.


The relationship is

BHP = Torque / 5252 * RPM


So if torque increases by 1.3456783% at any point then BHP will increase by 1.3456783% at that point as well


Its IDENTICAL, not similar, not kind of related, not linked tenuously, but IDENTICAL like Nick says.

Anonymous

Any of the engine builders mentioned in this thread are capable of building a good strong reliable road engine.

Anyone dismissing Julian on the grounds he normally builds race engines is totally missing the point that someone who can build an engine correctly for racing can also build one correctly for road use if they wish, just the spec would be different and its not what he specialises in.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I meant from the perspective that the torque curve can change dramatically and increase by say 60lft at it's peak, but the power may only increase by 30bhp at it's peak, because they peak at totally different places . So it's not a direct correlation, to say that if the peak torque increase by 60lb ft, that the peak power would also increase by 60bhp .

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

So Mike, taking the above calculations and adding in my question, why does the engine make 600 bhp but relatively low torque? If its all about correction factor and where the temp sensor is placed then that engine either has an over inflated bhp figure or a problem with the spec/setup surely?

foreigneRS

Mike Rainbird i know perfectly well that an engine dyno measures torque only and calculates bhp (from the engine speed using the formula that chip has posted) that is directly proportional. i am a mechanical engineer ffs. please accept a with some grace

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

EXACTLY my point .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

See my reply .

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Who? Me, Chip or Nick or all 3

foreigneRS

me i think. doesn't wash with me though. you still need a cap up your ass

MikeR

Mike with regards Phil question about High comp engines and relating it to my own car which runs 8.1-1 am i right (not sure of the exact figure) and we all except that Evo's are fast cars and deliver the power well, why would this not be a popular and plauseable way to build a Cosworth engine ? I once had it explained to me the High comp drive like a natrually aspirated engine of boost then like a forced induction on boost in the crassiest possible way,


Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

All three .

Anonymous

Do people not understand that torque is effectively a product of:

Airflow / rpm



So a 500bhp turbo can make 1000lbft if you get it spooled up by 2500rpm




I fail to see why its viewed as such a black art or why there is so much contraversy over it, Mark's engines make loads of torque because they are setup (cam specs and head specs) to spool the turbo as early as possible, while (educated guess) having minimal lift on overlap to ensure efficient use of the air that the turbo does flow once it gets into the engine.

Ultimately this will result in a slight loss of top end though, as it means you require more boost per BHP at the top end, and if you look at any compressor map you will find that a more moderate amount of boost will allow a small amount more flow.

Personally i think the way mark does it is absolutely perfect for a road going engine, but ultimately if you want the peak bhp you can possibly have, its not the way to get that figure, nasty peaky engines with narrow power bands all at the top end tend to win that one.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

lol,

I wish i could get a PROPER answer to my question though. Have been asking for 4 pages

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You can have a higher compression with a smaller bore .

Anonymous

Because the engines are completely different so what works on one doesnt work directly on the other.

Just copying the CR from one motor to another doesnt give the same results.

If your engine was a cosworth motor it would be generating higher EGT's because it would have to have less ignition advance because it would be an old 80s boat anchor with a bore thats too big a stroke thats too small and a cylinder head designed by a couple of blokes in a shed to use on an N/A motor with no consideration for turbo charging it when they designed it.

Anonymous

What more info would you like that i have given?

Anonymous

Mike he does many road engines and as Chip says if he can build a race engine i am sure he is capable of a decent road engine

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Does that mean I HAVE to use him then?

I would prefer to use Mark over them any day of the week .

justin.e

what do you mean Dave you booked more dyno time
or you had an engine issue on the dyno?

Anonymous

You can use the Queen Mother for all i care,i am just saying you are quick to diss on one issue without thinking bigger picture

Hell bring your car over i will build you an engine....we use ass dyno and a Rottweiler to map

Anonymous

I know people who use both JG and MAD, based on their comments, i would happily use either of them but like Mike i would choose MAD personally as I do not beleive there is any tuner who gives more support to their customers than Mark does, i think the basic ethos MAD seems to have is build a small number of engines for a small number of people and be able to focus on each one with a massive amount of Marks personal time.

Anyone doing it more "commercially" who is practically production lining engines cant put the same level of commitment into each one IMHO, im sure that Harvey does forspecial cases like Mike, but i dont believe that a normal member of the public going to Harvey can possibly get the sort of support from him that people i know (not just the YB lads) have got from MAD

justin.e

didnt see reply

MikeR

Thanks for explaining that Chip would i be right in saying Paul Hills has built a couple of relativly high comp road going cossie engines with big power to a fair degree of sucsess ?

Mike