Keep having to add coolant each month
08-06-2011, 09:44 PM
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Keep having to add coolant each month
Hello, i have a 95 M reg Mondeo Automatic, 60k on the clock and i check the coolant in the expasnsion each month.
I would say i have to add a cup full of water each month as standard, this last month i had to add over half a litre as the water was quite a bit below the minimum mark.
I took the car to a local garage today, they left it running and checked for leaks and said they could not find any, they also say the heater matrix (?) was not leaking, there was no dampness on my carpets and my coolant showed no fumes in it (not sure the exact term they used) and said my head gasket would be fine.
So why do i need to keep adding water?
Where is it going?
I typically only drive 80-100 miles per week, short local trips 3 or 4 times a week, i rarely use the heater in the car.
Thankyou so much for any help/advice.
I would say i have to add a cup full of water each month as standard, this last month i had to add over half a litre as the water was quite a bit below the minimum mark.
I took the car to a local garage today, they left it running and checked for leaks and said they could not find any, they also say the heater matrix (?) was not leaking, there was no dampness on my carpets and my coolant showed no fumes in it (not sure the exact term they used) and said my head gasket would be fine.
So why do i need to keep adding water?
Where is it going?
I typically only drive 80-100 miles per week, short local trips 3 or 4 times a week, i rarely use the heater in the car.
Thankyou so much for any help/advice.
Last edited by Breambasher; 08-06-2011 at 09:48 PM.
08-06-2011, 09:52 PM
#2
my guess is waterpump, its usually difficult to diagnose without a visual inspection as being in a hot area of the engine the water tends to evaporate and leave a powdered residue on the pump so is not normally seen as a drip from the car until it is really bad
08-06-2011, 11:27 PM
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Thankyou for the reply, i would have hoped that when the mechamic was looking for the loss of water (leak as he called it) that he would have checked the water pump as a likely cause? he did do a carbons test and checked the heater matrix so he seemed thourough?
I have been doing alot of googling and one thing came out that seems possible, someone mentioned a faulty expansion cap not holding the pressure so the water simply evapourates over time, i do remember quite some time ago that when i undid my filler cap that some thiN circular thing fell out and i couldnt find it, i didnt think anything of it at the time...
Where can i buy a replacement filler cap please?
I know its most likely not my problem, but at the moment no-one seems to know whats happening to my water/coolant so its worth a shot?
I have been doing alot of googling and one thing came out that seems possible, someone mentioned a faulty expansion cap not holding the pressure so the water simply evapourates over time, i do remember quite some time ago that when i undid my filler cap that some thiN circular thing fell out and i couldnt find it, i didnt think anything of it at the time...
Where can i buy a replacement filler cap please?
I know its most likely not my problem, but at the moment no-one seems to know whats happening to my water/coolant so its worth a shot?
08-06-2011, 11:36 PM
#4
if you dont have a seal on the filler it will leak when hot as the water under heat and pressure will expand and come out, you can usually see evidence of this on the bottle
your mechanic as thourough as he may be could easily miss a water pump leak as to get a proper look at the water pump on your car would have to remove the auxillary belt and engine mounting
your mechanic as thourough as he may be could easily miss a water pump leak as to get a proper look at the water pump on your car would have to remove the auxillary belt and engine mounting
09-06-2011, 03:29 PM
#5
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If the seal on the cap is missing, it allows the water to boil, and expand much more than it should, first thing that the garage should have checked imo.
Just try a new cap, and although this sounds odd, don't worry if the level settles below the minimum mark, the important thing is that you can see some in the bottom of the tank.
My old 2L mondy auto was the same, never used a drop, but water level settled about 1 1/2" BELOW the minimum mark, so I merely used a marker pen and put a new mark on it, it never moved from there, but everytime if topped up to "min" it would chuck it out, and settle where it wanted, even with a new cap.
The caps don't seal 100%, they're set to a certain pressure at which they open, this can and often does occur after switching off as the water heats up much more absorbing heat from the engine, so don't be surprised if you can hear a slight, and I mean slight hiss when you put your ear near the cap after switch off.
tabetha
Just try a new cap, and although this sounds odd, don't worry if the level settles below the minimum mark, the important thing is that you can see some in the bottom of the tank.
My old 2L mondy auto was the same, never used a drop, but water level settled about 1 1/2" BELOW the minimum mark, so I merely used a marker pen and put a new mark on it, it never moved from there, but everytime if topped up to "min" it would chuck it out, and settle where it wanted, even with a new cap.
The caps don't seal 100%, they're set to a certain pressure at which they open, this can and often does occur after switching off as the water heats up much more absorbing heat from the engine, so don't be surprised if you can hear a slight, and I mean slight hiss when you put your ear near the cap after switch off.
tabetha
09-06-2011, 06:42 PM
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Thankyou. I will buy a new cap tommorow, i got one ordered and it will be in stock then.
After i have driven the car should the water be higher or lower in the expansion tank and again after the car has been sitting a day or two should it be higher or lower in the expansion tank?
I still dont know why i have to top up... the level never seems the same from day to day, it can be on the minimum, then it can be half to max next week, then below the minimum... so i add some...
I dont know if i am doing the right thing or if i should be worried...
What i do know is that after i add some water to bring it to say half way between min and max and then use the car for a month and then re-check the level it usually always is below where i topped it too so i add more...
This last month it was below the min for the first time ever... so i added quite alot and had it checked (unsuccesfully) for leaks.
After i have driven the car should the water be higher or lower in the expansion tank and again after the car has been sitting a day or two should it be higher or lower in the expansion tank?
I still dont know why i have to top up... the level never seems the same from day to day, it can be on the minimum, then it can be half to max next week, then below the minimum... so i add some...
I dont know if i am doing the right thing or if i should be worried...
What i do know is that after i add some water to bring it to say half way between min and max and then use the car for a month and then re-check the level it usually always is below where i topped it too so i add more...
This last month it was below the min for the first time ever... so i added quite alot and had it checked (unsuccesfully) for leaks.
Last edited by Breambasher; 09-06-2011 at 06:46 PM.
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09-06-2011, 06:57 PM
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you need to be checking the level when the car is stone cold so before you use it in the morning. if you check it hot and cold then you will get different readings. definately replace the cap though as that does sound suspect!
EDIT: beaten to it
EDIT: beaten to it
09-06-2011, 08:42 PM
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Another thing to check and quite common on the mondeo is the coolant pipe in the drivers wheel arch. There is a metal coolant pipe that runs right by the drivers wheel arch it comes from the front and runs around to the back of the block.
mine was like it for ages and the garage couldn't find it, the pipe tends to corrode and in mine was just a little pin prick hole, it never leaked much so you couldn't notice it on the floor but was just enough to keep dropping the level. i only noticed it when i was doing the front discs and pads.
a new pipe from ford was about 80 quid iirc but i just cut out the damaged part and put a bit of silicone hose in and it never happened again. and lasted another 2 years til i scrapped the car.
it's worth checking it just incase.
mine was like it for ages and the garage couldn't find it, the pipe tends to corrode and in mine was just a little pin prick hole, it never leaked much so you couldn't notice it on the floor but was just enough to keep dropping the level. i only noticed it when i was doing the front discs and pads.
a new pipe from ford was about 80 quid iirc but i just cut out the damaged part and put a bit of silicone hose in and it never happened again. and lasted another 2 years til i scrapped the car.
it's worth checking it just incase.
Last edited by Dave howe; 09-06-2011 at 08:44 PM.
09-06-2011, 09:28 PM
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Thankyou for the replies.
Is there supposed to be a small circular piece of thin black rubber resting on top of the coolant neck where the screw cap fits onto? or is that small circular thin black rubber from inside the cap itself?
The reason why i am asking is cos as i remember that i took off the cap one day last year to top up fluid and i noticed the black rubber thing just resting ontop of the neck of the expansion tank where the cap would screw into.
Not sure what happened to it but i cant see anything inside my cap and theres just clear plastic on the neck of the expansion tank and i dont see a seal anywhere, not sure if that small black circular rubber was the seal and where it was supposed to be?
Ford have priced me Ł13 for a new part, my local parts shop priced me Ł6 so i went to look at that part but it looked nothing like my existing part so i left it there, and i did not notice any rubber seal inside the cap for Ł6...
Im not sure if the seal should be in the cap or attached to the expansion tank... and if it is supposed to be in the cap itself would i actually see it?
I am trying to figure out if i do need a new cap or not.
Thankyou
Is there supposed to be a small circular piece of thin black rubber resting on top of the coolant neck where the screw cap fits onto? or is that small circular thin black rubber from inside the cap itself?
The reason why i am asking is cos as i remember that i took off the cap one day last year to top up fluid and i noticed the black rubber thing just resting ontop of the neck of the expansion tank where the cap would screw into.
Not sure what happened to it but i cant see anything inside my cap and theres just clear plastic on the neck of the expansion tank and i dont see a seal anywhere, not sure if that small black circular rubber was the seal and where it was supposed to be?
Ford have priced me Ł13 for a new part, my local parts shop priced me Ł6 so i went to look at that part but it looked nothing like my existing part so i left it there, and i did not notice any rubber seal inside the cap for Ł6...
Im not sure if the seal should be in the cap or attached to the expansion tank... and if it is supposed to be in the cap itself would i actually see it?
I am trying to figure out if i do need a new cap or not.
Thankyou
09-06-2011, 09:37 PM
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I can see a small thing which looks like copper in the middle of the cap, but im not sure of any seal, i cant see anything, but would i see it?
And coolant could leak out even if i had the cap screwed on tight?
I havnt noticed any coolant leaking from the expansion tank, and ive never seen any fluid on the floor after parking up, unless it only comes out when i am driving which i wouldnt see.
And coolant could leak out even if i had the cap screwed on tight?
I havnt noticed any coolant leaking from the expansion tank, and ive never seen any fluid on the floor after parking up, unless it only comes out when i am driving which i wouldnt see.
Last edited by Breambasher; 09-06-2011 at 09:39 PM.
24-01-2012, 10:01 AM
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I really need some more help on this if possible please.
Firstly an update.
I have changed the filler cap to a brand new one which cost over Ł13 and there has been no change since i last posted over 6 months ago except that i am now losing/using more water/coolant than before, not loads more but still more and i now typicalyl have to keep topping up each week, other than that the car works perfectly.
I know Tabetha you said that your old Mondy used to like to settle below the minimum but i dont have the balls to let mine do that, because of how much water i am using/losing... i am worried if i let it settle below the minimum and i use/lose half a litre then i could knacker something up if i did have a problem somewhere.
As you can see i still have the car and i still have the problem, which has progressivley gotten worse i think... i have to add a little more now frequently now than i did 6 months ago. Please help. Thankyou.
Firstly an update.
I have changed the filler cap to a brand new one which cost over Ł13 and there has been no change since i last posted over 6 months ago except that i am now losing/using more water/coolant than before, not loads more but still more and i now typicalyl have to keep topping up each week, other than that the car works perfectly.
I know Tabetha you said that your old Mondy used to like to settle below the minimum but i dont have the balls to let mine do that, because of how much water i am using/losing... i am worried if i let it settle below the minimum and i use/lose half a litre then i could knacker something up if i did have a problem somewhere.
As you can see i still have the car and i still have the problem, which has progressivley gotten worse i think... i have to add a little more now frequently now than i did 6 months ago. Please help. Thankyou.
Last edited by Breambasher; 24-01-2012 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Spelling mistakes.
24-01-2012, 10:22 AM
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I am sorry i have no idea what those are, i know next to nothing about cars.
I have just called another garage who have it booked in for tommorow where they will apparently do a pressure test to check for leaks.
Should i mention core plugs to them or is it something they would know about?
I have just called another garage who have it booked in for tommorow where they will apparently do a pressure test to check for leaks.
Should i mention core plugs to them or is it something they would know about?
25-01-2012, 10:43 AM
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Ok i just got back from the garage. The guy did a pressure test and he said there are no external leaks.
He said the only other thing could be a possible head leak where some water is entering a chamber (i think he said)... but this wasnt tested. I did mention to him that i was told by someone that they had a similar Mondeo where the water would only want to sit below the minimum mark and if it was higher than that it would throw the coolant out or discard it until it sat at 1 inch below the minimum... the mechanic just looked at me and said 'well, where is it going to get thrown out, its a concealed unit... it cant go anywhere unless there is a leak' to which i had no reply, i just wanted to mention it to him as a possible thought.
He did mention a product called Sol-X which he said is trade only and is the best to seal any small leaks and recommended i buy it as he said it was fantastic stuff that has never failed him before in 8 years, so i paid Ł15 and he poured it into my filler cap... all i have to do now is just see if it helps at all... i am always unsure that these things will block something that they shouldnt... but he said that wont happen. Any thoughts on all this please?
He said the only other thing could be a possible head leak where some water is entering a chamber (i think he said)... but this wasnt tested. I did mention to him that i was told by someone that they had a similar Mondeo where the water would only want to sit below the minimum mark and if it was higher than that it would throw the coolant out or discard it until it sat at 1 inch below the minimum... the mechanic just looked at me and said 'well, where is it going to get thrown out, its a concealed unit... it cant go anywhere unless there is a leak' to which i had no reply, i just wanted to mention it to him as a possible thought.
He did mention a product called Sol-X which he said is trade only and is the best to seal any small leaks and recommended i buy it as he said it was fantastic stuff that has never failed him before in 8 years, so i paid Ł15 and he poured it into my filler cap... all i have to do now is just see if it helps at all... i am always unsure that these things will block something that they shouldnt... but he said that wont happen. Any thoughts on all this please?
Last edited by Breambasher; 25-01-2012 at 10:44 AM.
27-01-2012, 09:08 AM
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Just got it back from another garage, the same one i took it too first, way back in June last year.
They put a pipe into my expansion tank to check for fumes, he told me the reading should read 0 for no fumes and anwhere between 250 and 1000 for a blown head gasket, my reading was 17.
I had put in some Sol-X this week so i dont know itf that has kept the reading lower than it would be. He suggested that i just run the car as in his words 'its not that bad' and if it got worse to take it to him for a head gasket change, which he quoted at Ł350-390.
What do you think? if anyone here knows what the reading is, and if 17 is bad, not so bad or anything then please let me know... or any other advice please.
They put a pipe into my expansion tank to check for fumes, he told me the reading should read 0 for no fumes and anwhere between 250 and 1000 for a blown head gasket, my reading was 17.
I had put in some Sol-X this week so i dont know itf that has kept the reading lower than it would be. He suggested that i just run the car as in his words 'its not that bad' and if it got worse to take it to him for a head gasket change, which he quoted at Ł350-390.
What do you think? if anyone here knows what the reading is, and if 17 is bad, not so bad or anything then please let me know... or any other advice please.
Last edited by Breambasher; 27-01-2012 at 09:10 AM.
30-01-2012, 09:26 PM
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Since i put the Sol-X in the car seemed happy to sit on or very near to the max mark, it dropped just 5mm in 6 days.
I however traded it in against a W reg 2.0l Auto today, had to a pay a little on top (not alot) and the guy who took my M reg Mondeo was very happy to do so, he seemed quite thrilled with it, i always did say it was a great runner tho.
My new Mondeo has (amazingly) got the same mileage as the one i traded in, both have got approx 66.400k on them, and this one has 5 years of Ford garage stamps... no sign of a cambelt being done tho (do they always put a sticker on the side of the engine to state a cambelt change?).
Only got the car today, so i know nothing about it... seems ok at the moment but i can only lock and unlock all the doors on one key turn via the passenger side door for some reason, when i try the key in the drivers door it only locks and unlocks the drivers door... any ideas why please?
I however traded it in against a W reg 2.0l Auto today, had to a pay a little on top (not alot) and the guy who took my M reg Mondeo was very happy to do so, he seemed quite thrilled with it, i always did say it was a great runner tho.
My new Mondeo has (amazingly) got the same mileage as the one i traded in, both have got approx 66.400k on them, and this one has 5 years of Ford garage stamps... no sign of a cambelt being done tho (do they always put a sticker on the side of the engine to state a cambelt change?).
Only got the car today, so i know nothing about it... seems ok at the moment but i can only lock and unlock all the doors on one key turn via the passenger side door for some reason, when i try the key in the drivers door it only locks and unlocks the drivers door... any ideas why please?
Last edited by Breambasher; 30-01-2012 at 09:29 PM.
31-01-2012, 11:13 AM
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Not sure who is following this thread but i like updating it as it may help someone else at some point.
RE: the newer Mondeo i bought yesterday, i had some service histroy with the car and i had a brain wave to call the garage that had undertaken the first 5 years of servicing on this Mondeo and see if they had any recent history at all as the book was last stamped in 05.
The guy i spoke to was amazing, he went thru everything with me and informed me that they had renewed the cambelt in 09 at 57,000 miles and i can rest easy that it had been done, he also said that the last 2 MOT's had been conducted by them but no recent servicing since July 09.
It just goes to show how a simple phone call to the right person can be so rewarding.
I still have not sorted out how to lock/unlock all doors via the key in the drivers door so if anyone can offer any advice on this i would be very appreciative please.
Thankyou.
RE: the newer Mondeo i bought yesterday, i had some service histroy with the car and i had a brain wave to call the garage that had undertaken the first 5 years of servicing on this Mondeo and see if they had any recent history at all as the book was last stamped in 05.
The guy i spoke to was amazing, he went thru everything with me and informed me that they had renewed the cambelt in 09 at 57,000 miles and i can rest easy that it had been done, he also said that the last 2 MOT's had been conducted by them but no recent servicing since July 09.
It just goes to show how a simple phone call to the right person can be so rewarding.
I still have not sorted out how to lock/unlock all doors via the key in the drivers door so if anyone can offer any advice on this i would be very appreciative please.
Thankyou.
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