Vista again
26-06-2007, 10:59 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Vista again
I have been asked by at least 10 people now if they should upgrade to the newest Microsoft Windows variant, Vista. Now, everyone is different so I can’t provide a blanket ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, but I will say that I don’t personally recommend it, I’m not using it, and I don’t plan on ever doing so in the future.
* What I do in the privacy of my own home, on the privacy of my own computer is none of Microsoft’s business. But for some reason, the most powerful software company on Earth has let media companies push it to add in all sorts of “Digital Rights Management” crap. This will cause several problems:
1. Let’s say you buy a movie on BlueRay disc, but want to take it to Mom’s house and play it back on her DVD player. Well, since a DVD player can’t play a BlueRay you slap it in your PC to convert it over, but wait! Vista says NO! It doesn’t matter that you legally own a copy of that content.
2. On the other hand, you invest in a bunch of HD DVDs, like Microsoft is pushing for their 360 gaming device, but in 3 years they are all obsolete because the new Super, Duper HD DVDs have been released, so you figure you’ll convert your legal copies of those to the new format, but again. NO! Microsoft ain’t gonna let you do it.
3. The cost associated with Windows DRM is absolutely astounding. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it’s not used directly with Vista.
* Multimedia performance under Vista is the worst of any modern operating system. Ever. And this is actually by design! So, even though people now watch TV online, have thousands of digital photos and even edit their home movies on their PC, Vista will actually do a worse job with all this than XP ever did.
1. Vista requires that any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a “constrictor” that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up-scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality.
2. Vista will silently modify displayed content under certain situations discernible only to Vista’s built-in content-protection subsystem. What happens currently is that Vista just refuses to play premium content rather than downgrading it.
3. If a copy protection weakness is found in a particular device (like your BRAND NEW ‘Vista Capable’ PC), it will have its signature revoked by Microsoft. This means a report of a compromise will cause all premium content ability for that device worldwide to be turned off until a fix can be found - rendering your expensive hardware completely useless just because Microsoft isn’t happy, and despite the fact that you don’t care about that ’security’ issue.
* Microsoft operating systems and software are getting more insecure and unreliable with every release. This is not because it’s “so hard” to design in security features, but because Microsoft is so interested in sticking their nose in every other aspect of your digital life that the real job of the OS takes a back seat.
1. Given the fact that Microsoft may push an “update” to you which disables your PC, people will disable updates in order to avoid this potential issue. The side-effect of this is PCs will become vulnerable to newly discovered malware, viruses, spyware, etc.
2. The massive DRM and other bloat in Vista will require more CPU, RAM, Video processing and other hardware. It has already been shown to run at least 10% slower than XP. It also unnecessarily utilizes more power at all times meaning increased energy consumption for every PC running it - further straining the electric grid.
So, in short. If a PC manufacturer were to send me a brand new top-of-the line computer for free and it came with Vista I would either re-format the hard drive and install XP, or refuse the system altogether. And that’s not an exaggeration. Just try me…
But worse than that, considering that eventually XP will simply be outdated I’ll have no choice but to migrate to a new operating system within the next few years. And that system will be Linux.
If you really want to read a complete analysis of why Vista sucks like nothing has ever sucked before, fall asleep reading this.
EDIT: This info added 3/30/2007
This just in. More evidence that Vista is unbelievably insecure:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Vist...sor/1175201875
Documentation and video of the cursor crash
http://www.avertlabs.com/research/blog/?p=233
http://badvista.fsf.org/
* What I do in the privacy of my own home, on the privacy of my own computer is none of Microsoft’s business. But for some reason, the most powerful software company on Earth has let media companies push it to add in all sorts of “Digital Rights Management” crap. This will cause several problems:
1. Let’s say you buy a movie on BlueRay disc, but want to take it to Mom’s house and play it back on her DVD player. Well, since a DVD player can’t play a BlueRay you slap it in your PC to convert it over, but wait! Vista says NO! It doesn’t matter that you legally own a copy of that content.
2. On the other hand, you invest in a bunch of HD DVDs, like Microsoft is pushing for their 360 gaming device, but in 3 years they are all obsolete because the new Super, Duper HD DVDs have been released, so you figure you’ll convert your legal copies of those to the new format, but again. NO! Microsoft ain’t gonna let you do it.
3. The cost associated with Windows DRM is absolutely astounding. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it’s not used directly with Vista.
* Multimedia performance under Vista is the worst of any modern operating system. Ever. And this is actually by design! So, even though people now watch TV online, have thousands of digital photos and even edit their home movies on their PC, Vista will actually do a worse job with all this than XP ever did.
1. Vista requires that any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a “constrictor” that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up-scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality.
2. Vista will silently modify displayed content under certain situations discernible only to Vista’s built-in content-protection subsystem. What happens currently is that Vista just refuses to play premium content rather than downgrading it.
3. If a copy protection weakness is found in a particular device (like your BRAND NEW ‘Vista Capable’ PC), it will have its signature revoked by Microsoft. This means a report of a compromise will cause all premium content ability for that device worldwide to be turned off until a fix can be found - rendering your expensive hardware completely useless just because Microsoft isn’t happy, and despite the fact that you don’t care about that ’security’ issue.
* Microsoft operating systems and software are getting more insecure and unreliable with every release. This is not because it’s “so hard” to design in security features, but because Microsoft is so interested in sticking their nose in every other aspect of your digital life that the real job of the OS takes a back seat.
1. Given the fact that Microsoft may push an “update” to you which disables your PC, people will disable updates in order to avoid this potential issue. The side-effect of this is PCs will become vulnerable to newly discovered malware, viruses, spyware, etc.
2. The massive DRM and other bloat in Vista will require more CPU, RAM, Video processing and other hardware. It has already been shown to run at least 10% slower than XP. It also unnecessarily utilizes more power at all times meaning increased energy consumption for every PC running it - further straining the electric grid.
So, in short. If a PC manufacturer were to send me a brand new top-of-the line computer for free and it came with Vista I would either re-format the hard drive and install XP, or refuse the system altogether. And that’s not an exaggeration. Just try me…
But worse than that, considering that eventually XP will simply be outdated I’ll have no choice but to migrate to a new operating system within the next few years. And that system will be Linux.
If you really want to read a complete analysis of why Vista sucks like nothing has ever sucked before, fall asleep reading this.
EDIT: This info added 3/30/2007
This just in. More evidence that Vista is unbelievably insecure:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Vist...sor/1175201875
Documentation and video of the cursor crash
http://www.avertlabs.com/research/blog/?p=233
http://badvista.fsf.org/
26-06-2007, 11:02 PM
#2
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Thread Starter
good article here on whats wrong with Vista
http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong...-windows-vista
even now its had time to settle its still getting really bad press
http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong...-windows-vista
even now its had time to settle its still getting really bad press
26-06-2007, 11:16 PM
#3
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i would not upgrade
did test vista ultimate about 1 month before the final release as my stepfather is a test person for Microsoft. or hi is actually a HP/Compaq technician on of few over here
but to my point
i did not like it then, yes have tested it later on too, and have a copy here, but not going to use it
did test vista ultimate about 1 month before the final release as my stepfather is a test person for Microsoft. or hi is actually a HP/Compaq technician on of few over here
but to my point
i did not like it then, yes have tested it later on too, and have a copy here, but not going to use it
27-06-2007, 10:45 AM
#5
Professional Waffler
Id still be using Vista if my creative control panel worked for my sound, and my webcam installed ok.
(i did have sound but i couldnt install the control panel which meant the sound was crap compared to what im used to in xp)
(i did have sound but i couldnt install the control panel which meant the sound was crap compared to what im used to in xp)
27-06-2007, 11:15 AM
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But its nothing new. We all know Vista has driver issues. Which is a bit weird since XP was fine more or less when it was launched 5-6 years ago now.
I would love to get it if only I knew all my hardware and software could run properly and with the correct drivers.
I would love to get it if only I knew all my hardware and software could run properly and with the correct drivers.
27-06-2007, 11:29 AM
#7
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It ran resonably ok my machine, the control panel for my sound card didn't work properly, but that soon got bypassed, firewall didn't work, and afew other issues but overall it looked nice and funky, Battlefield 2 refused to run, dunno if it will now or not, hopefully, if my laptop is unrepairable and i get a new lappy, it'll run BF2 and i can properly test it 
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27-06-2007, 11:38 AM
#8
Professional Waffler
I had the basic version on my pc and it ran just as fast as xp pro, but like you dan my firewall didnt work either(zonealarm) and also NOD32 antivirus didnt work either 
27-06-2007, 01:40 PM
#10
Professional Waffler
no, just the normal windows firewall like xp(which isnt much cop is it?) but it does come bundled with windows defender, thats the only difference.
so you still need a good firewall and av with vista
so you still need a good firewall and av with vista
28-06-2007, 02:04 PM
#13
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Re: Vista again
Originally Posted by UnseenMenace
I have been asked by at least 10 people now if they should upgrade to the newest Microsoft Windows variant, Vista. Now, everyone is different so I can’t provide a blanket ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, but I will say that I don’t personally recommend it, I’m not using it, and I don’t plan on ever doing so in the future.
* What I do in the privacy of my own home, on the privacy of my own computer is none of Microsoft’s business. But for some reason, the most powerful software company on Earth has let media companies push it to add in all sorts of “Digital Rights Management” crap. This will cause several problems:
1. Let’s say you buy a movie on BlueRay disc, but want to take it to Mom’s house and play it back on her DVD player. Well, since a DVD player can’t play a BlueRay you slap it in your PC to convert it over, but wait! Vista says NO! It doesn’t matter that you legally own a copy of that content.
2. On the other hand, you invest in a bunch of HD DVDs, like Microsoft is pushing for their 360 gaming device, but in 3 years they are all obsolete because the new Super, Duper HD DVDs have been released, so you figure you’ll convert your legal copies of those to the new format, but again. NO! Microsoft ain’t gonna let you do it.
3. The cost associated with Windows DRM is absolutely astounding. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it’s not used directly with Vista.
* Multimedia performance under Vista is the worst of any modern operating system. Ever. And this is actually by design! So, even though people now watch TV online, have thousands of digital photos and even edit their home movies on their PC, Vista will actually do a worse job with all this than XP ever did.
1. Vista requires that any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a “constrictor” that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up-scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality.
2. Vista will silently modify displayed content under certain situations discernible only to Vista’s built-in content-protection subsystem. What happens currently is that Vista just refuses to play premium content rather than downgrading it.
3. If a copy protection weakness is found in a particular device (like your BRAND NEW ‘Vista Capable’ PC), it will have its signature revoked by Microsoft. This means a report of a compromise will cause all premium content ability for that device worldwide to be turned off until a fix can be found - rendering your expensive hardware completely useless just because Microsoft isn’t happy, and despite the fact that you don’t care about that ’security’ issue.
* Microsoft operating systems and software are getting more insecure and unreliable with every release. This is not because it’s “so hard” to design in security features, but because Microsoft is so interested in sticking their nose in every other aspect of your digital life that the real job of the OS takes a back seat.
1. Given the fact that Microsoft may push an “update” to you which disables your PC, people will disable updates in order to avoid this potential issue. The side-effect of this is PCs will become vulnerable to newly discovered malware, viruses, spyware, etc.
2. The massive DRM and other bloat in Vista will require more CPU, RAM, Video processing and other hardware. It has already been shown to run at least 10% slower than XP. It also unnecessarily utilizes more power at all times meaning increased energy consumption for every PC running it - further straining the electric grid.
So, in short. If a PC manufacturer were to send me a brand new top-of-the line computer for free and it came with Vista I would either re-format the hard drive and install XP, or refuse the system altogether. And that’s not an exaggeration. Just try me…
But worse than that, considering that eventually XP will simply be outdated I’ll have no choice but to migrate to a new operating system within the next few years. And that system will be Linux.
If you really want to read a complete analysis of why Vista sucks like nothing has ever sucked before, fall asleep reading this.
EDIT: This info added 3/30/2007
This just in. More evidence that Vista is unbelievably insecure:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Vist...sor/1175201875
Documentation and video of the cursor crash
http://www.avertlabs.com/research/blog/?p=233
http://badvista.fsf.org/
* What I do in the privacy of my own home, on the privacy of my own computer is none of Microsoft’s business. But for some reason, the most powerful software company on Earth has let media companies push it to add in all sorts of “Digital Rights Management” crap. This will cause several problems:
1. Let’s say you buy a movie on BlueRay disc, but want to take it to Mom’s house and play it back on her DVD player. Well, since a DVD player can’t play a BlueRay you slap it in your PC to convert it over, but wait! Vista says NO! It doesn’t matter that you legally own a copy of that content.
2. On the other hand, you invest in a bunch of HD DVDs, like Microsoft is pushing for their 360 gaming device, but in 3 years they are all obsolete because the new Super, Duper HD DVDs have been released, so you figure you’ll convert your legal copies of those to the new format, but again. NO! Microsoft ain’t gonna let you do it.
3. The cost associated with Windows DRM is absolutely astounding. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it’s not used directly with Vista.
* Multimedia performance under Vista is the worst of any modern operating system. Ever. And this is actually by design! So, even though people now watch TV online, have thousands of digital photos and even edit their home movies on their PC, Vista will actually do a worse job with all this than XP ever did.
1. Vista requires that any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a “constrictor” that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up-scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality.
2. Vista will silently modify displayed content under certain situations discernible only to Vista’s built-in content-protection subsystem. What happens currently is that Vista just refuses to play premium content rather than downgrading it.
3. If a copy protection weakness is found in a particular device (like your BRAND NEW ‘Vista Capable’ PC), it will have its signature revoked by Microsoft. This means a report of a compromise will cause all premium content ability for that device worldwide to be turned off until a fix can be found - rendering your expensive hardware completely useless just because Microsoft isn’t happy, and despite the fact that you don’t care about that ’security’ issue.
* Microsoft operating systems and software are getting more insecure and unreliable with every release. This is not because it’s “so hard” to design in security features, but because Microsoft is so interested in sticking their nose in every other aspect of your digital life that the real job of the OS takes a back seat.
1. Given the fact that Microsoft may push an “update” to you which disables your PC, people will disable updates in order to avoid this potential issue. The side-effect of this is PCs will become vulnerable to newly discovered malware, viruses, spyware, etc.
2. The massive DRM and other bloat in Vista will require more CPU, RAM, Video processing and other hardware. It has already been shown to run at least 10% slower than XP. It also unnecessarily utilizes more power at all times meaning increased energy consumption for every PC running it - further straining the electric grid.
So, in short. If a PC manufacturer were to send me a brand new top-of-the line computer for free and it came with Vista I would either re-format the hard drive and install XP, or refuse the system altogether. And that’s not an exaggeration. Just try me…
But worse than that, considering that eventually XP will simply be outdated I’ll have no choice but to migrate to a new operating system within the next few years. And that system will be Linux.
If you really want to read a complete analysis of why Vista sucks like nothing has ever sucked before, fall asleep reading this.
EDIT: This info added 3/30/2007
This just in. More evidence that Vista is unbelievably insecure:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Vist...sor/1175201875
Documentation and video of the cursor crash
http://www.avertlabs.com/research/blog/?p=233
http://badvista.fsf.org/
michael
29-06-2007, 08:39 AM
#15
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I've had vista on my laptop but it didn't last long. Firstly i tested it with vmware workstation and it went ok but after a proper install as the host it crashed several times, was slow and plenty of things didn't work including my network wifi card. To add to this the graphical design with transparency and clocks/gadgets just seemed to be a linux wanabe, trying to be great but still getting pissed on by linux. Many Linux distros out of the box are very bare bones but with tweaks you can make it look amazing with either gnome, kde, fluxbox or beryl. Things that windows can never achieve.
Even people who post up their fancy desktops on windows have to use something like windowblinds and its crap. Linux you can do what you want and have more combinations. Most people would be best to get themselves a book or 2 like a linux bible download an iso image and use for a few months until they are comfortable with it like they are windows, just have windows on a spare pc or use vmware for those odd things you can't find a linux replacement for, which isn't a lot. Then you can load up windos xp/vista as a guest on the linux machine just like you would open up firefox or photoshop, save it and shutdown and return to your desktop, you can even use NAT and share the net connection so you can be using internet explorer on windows but on linux.
Windows xp/vista was/is hundreds of pounds then even more for office yet linux comes free with open office on it. Sounds silly to me not just for people at home but for schools and basic buinesses too. It comes with firefox and there not shitty WMP or IE loitering around. Firefox, VLC, Gaim and Skype and most people are all set.
I do agree though with the point made about XP having similar drama with things not working etc. It will get better for vista but just not good enough. You will always have security issues taking months to be patched and it will always crash from time to time.
Even people who post up their fancy desktops on windows have to use something like windowblinds and its crap. Linux you can do what you want and have more combinations. Most people would be best to get themselves a book or 2 like a linux bible download an iso image and use for a few months until they are comfortable with it like they are windows, just have windows on a spare pc or use vmware for those odd things you can't find a linux replacement for, which isn't a lot. Then you can load up windos xp/vista as a guest on the linux machine just like you would open up firefox or photoshop, save it and shutdown and return to your desktop, you can even use NAT and share the net connection so you can be using internet explorer on windows but on linux.
Windows xp/vista was/is hundreds of pounds then even more for office yet linux comes free with open office on it. Sounds silly to me not just for people at home but for schools and basic buinesses too. It comes with firefox and there not shitty WMP or IE loitering around. Firefox, VLC, Gaim and Skype and most people are all set.
I do agree though with the point made about XP having similar drama with things not working etc. It will get better for vista but just not good enough. You will always have security issues taking months to be patched and it will always crash from time to time.
29-06-2007, 12:42 PM
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isnt it systems that are upgrading that are experiencing most problems though, where the hardware was probably designed before vista was fully announced? As I know someone who has had vista right from Beta 2 and was part of the test program, and he reckons its the older hardware causing problems, and new systems that were designed with vista in mind are perfectly fine.
30-06-2007, 03:01 PM
#17
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
I've been on Vista, and only using Vista since about October 06 (beta version), i'm now running vista business on my main pc (apprently this is the only version you can connect to domains on, plus i got the copy free from work LOL), and vista premium on my laptop.
No probs at all, no crashing, no driver problems, no software problems.
I think the people who are having problems are either using older hardware, or just dont know what there doing.
all IMO of course.
No probs at all, no crashing, no driver problems, no software problems.
I think the people who are having problems are either using older hardware, or just dont know what there doing.
all IMO of course.
30-06-2007, 04:39 PM
#18
Professional Waffler
one of the things that wouldnt install on vista was the software for my newish x-fi soundcard, so thats not old is it.
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work
so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work
so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
30-06-2007, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GTi_iTG
one of the things that wouldnt install on vista was the software for my newish x-fi soundcard, so thats not old is it.
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work
so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
30-06-2007, 06:29 PM
#20
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Originally Posted by GTi_iTG
one of the things that wouldnt install on vista was the software for my newish x-fi soundcard, so thats not old is it.
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work
so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arentWebcam - http://www.labtec.com/index.cfm/serv...=68,crid2=1764
Sound card - http://www.soundblaster.com/language...port/downloads
30-06-2007, 06:45 PM
#21
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by roybacer
Originally Posted by GTi_iTG
one of the things that wouldnt install on vista was the software for my newish x-fi soundcard, so thats not old is it.
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arent
Also my webcam, that is pretty old but agian its a labtec job so its pretty popular id imagine, yet it wont work
so i dont think its all down to old hardware and thick users, some cases might be but others arentWebcam - http://www.labtec.com/index.cfm/serv...=68,crid2=1764
Sound card - http://www.soundblaster.com/language...port/downloads
Think i red something about other people having issues with the creative control panel software and they just havent bothered to make it work on vista
still had sound though but it sounded shit compared to xp because i couldnt tweak the settings
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