Captain Cotswold

Good evening everyone
Decided to give the throttle body, linkage and ISCV a clean up today as I had it removed to fit a new pf09. Used aerosol degreaser, toothbrush and elbow grease. Came up great, put it all back on and when I struck it up, idle went up to 1500. I let it idle like this for a little while and a couple of blips (and I do mean blips) on the throttle didn't settle it back down. Stripped it all off again to make sure I hadn't nipped the sensor down with a bit of spring pre-load. Maybe the smallest touch of tension, so re-adjusted and rebuilt. Struck it up and same. Unplugged ISCV, normality restored.
So, I have clearly either filled it with degreaser, or just given it the touch of silicon death.

Question is, Will it be ok to run with it unplugged? Will the ecu be wondering where the fuck it's got to? I've driven it unplugged and it does seem ok. Just don't want to give it an Eppy after I've just got my misfires sorted. Any advice welcomed.
Cheers Gents.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Will do no harm with it disconnected at all just need to give it a little throttle for cold starts to compensate. Do the revs drop even when upto running temp or is it constant 1500RPM? Must of moved TPS slightly.

Martin

Captain Cotswold

Hello Martin,
Struck it up this morning for work and it started first time, just idling at about 650-700, lumpy lumpy for a couple of minutes then up to normal, it's about 850-900ish.
Yeah, I don't know wether it wasn't clear, but I replaced the tps so defo moved.
Did think that maybe I had positioned it wrongly, so stripped out and checked again. (The Destructions for fitting it state that you turn it till you feel some spring tension, and then back it off a gnats cock and tighten there. Main warning is not to have any tension on it when it's nipped in position.) Happily be corrected on this of course! When I put it back on, it was the same high idle. I unplugged idle valve and it settled.
After I'd been for a spin and pulled it up on the drive, I popped the bonnet to see what effect plugging it back in would have now that the engine was at op. temperature, again, plugging it in caused the idle to pick back up to 1500. So, I'm thinking I've damaged the valve??

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

You haven't damaged the valve, rather it's being told to to move this much since it's only TPS you have touched it must be something to do with this. Does the car otherwise drive fine?

Martin

Captain Cotswold

Yeah, it does appear to drive well.
Do you think I've maybe rotated the tps on its locating screws the wrong way.
ie; i've turned it clockwise to feel the point of spring tension, then backed it off a touch to nip it down (This is exactly how I did it)
When I should have been turning it to it's anti-clockwise limit, backing it off a touch, and nipping it down in this position?
Wouldn't be so bad if I could adjust it in situ, but I have no chance getting my sausage fingers in there with anything useful for undoing and doing up the screws.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

an incorrectly adjusted tps can cause the iscv to open

some clowns even drive around with the iscv unplugged all the time as they dont know how to set the cars up properly

tabetha

When I was using the old L6, I just used to put it on, leaving say a 3-5mm gap between it and the body so free to move, twisted it then let it spring back and screwed down in that position.
I don't use the iscv on mine(K3) even though I have manual control of the idle speed at all times, not found a problem, though tps set up is only press the accelerator and release for me, if disturbed to recalibrate it.
tabetha

Captain Cotswold

Nice one Martin. You've very clearly informed me that my iscv is opening because of my set-up of the tps being arse about face. Helpful.


Mmmmm.... Ok then James at Cosworth Mecca Motorsport Developments. Obviously with the wealth of technical experience and information you have around you, just restating what Martin said already really blew me away. Any chance of you actually describing how to do it properly then? Maybe read what I posted at 2.23pm yesterday and give me some genuine useful pointers based on where I'm at??

Captain Cotswold

Hello mate,
I thought (??) that the pf09's voltage was read by the ecu, and that it used the lowest value as a reference point to ascertain closed throttle position, and set it to this value plus a small margin as a base?? I have a good understanding, although clearly not perfect. I'm not even sure if I rotated the bloody thing the right way when I was trying to set it's position.
Although doing it your technique, I can't really fail to be turning it the right way. Thanks alot Tabs.

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

If you are using the corect tps/ecu/wiring combo, then you need to measure the sensor signal output, and set it to the figures given in the workshop manual.

alternativly, use a live datastrem and set the throttle angle as we do here.

its important to check the WOT reading aswell, and check the sweep is steady.

Andreas

Whats the recomended throttle angle on idle and full?

Mine sits at 3 degrees and have around 1200 rpm.

Captain Cotswold

I am using the correct TPS, ECU, and wiring combo, yes.
So to try and sum up your advice, You mean measure the voltage output, following the figs in the workshop manual to get the position right?
I'll be honest, I didn't have a multi-meter on it when I positioned it so I'll do that.

Yeah, erm, letting me know how ill educated I am in the subject, and how very well 'equipped' you are is not a sure fire way of getting me through to Blackpool when the time comes. Classy though, cheers.
I honestly do not know what the WOT reading is and would hate to hazard a guess although I'm sure it's relevant and quite easy to explain without the

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

i aim for 0.2 degs at idle, and 82 degs at WOT,

if the idle is high with the iscv shut, reset the base idle or check for air leaks if it wiill not come down.

Captain Cotswold

Look here James...
I'm not trying to wind you up, but you don't really seem forthcoming with laymans terms.
I had a tps on, my car idled fine. I put a new one on, car doesn't idle fine. Thought I'd damaged the iscv with cleaning agent, but clearly I've just balls'd up the install.
I will at the weekend take the throttle off again, and try to reset the tps with a multi-meter.

Captain Cotswold

Wide Open Throttle

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

This statement seems to be missing the "Thanks for your valuable time and help trying to help me for free James..."



This statement also seems to be missing the "Thanks for your valuable time and help trying to help me for free James..."


You seem to be very negative towards someone spending their free time trying to help you here mate. James's terms ARE laymans terms. He has told you:

• What is causing your high idle (TPS)
• what degrees to set it to at idle to fix it
• what degrees to set it to at wide open throttle to ensure fuelling is good.
• To check the sweep is clean so you know sensor is ok.
• What to do if this work doesnt fix your problem.

And you take the piss out of him? Classy.

The fact you cannot grasp them is hardly his fault is it? Had you not stated:

Then maybe he woudl have tried to explain it in slightly simpler terms but again, it is you who said you had a good understanding...

tabetha

Or just get a ecu where you don't have to bugger around like this, and take MUCH cheaper tps in the process, that involve no metres just a 2 min job on laptop.
tabetha

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

If his replies to james are anything to go by you best get your flame suit on to deal with the flack this guy is about to give you for suggesting he spend several hundred quid on an ECU, More on a loom and More again on a remap instead of just twidling his TPS to read less than 1 degree of angle which is of course free. LOL

Captain Cotswold

Steady on...

James... I whole heartedly apologise to you for coming across as an ungrateful fuckwit and giving you a hard time for providing information to me. Once I've taken your advice used it, and had success with it, rest assured I would have been back on here blowing sunshine up your arris.

I do not have the knowledge of my car that you do when it comes to management parameters etc. I know that. So, Thankyou for the advice you gave me for free. It is of use to me, and I DO appreciate you taking the time out to help.

stu,
Stating that I have a good understanding, but not perfect is I think pretty fair. It says 'I don't think I know it all', 'I'm a learner on the yb', 'I'll understand a lot of your terminology, but not all of it so you don't need to talk to me in really simple terms, like a man who's never seen under a bonnet, but I WON'T GET some of it'
Or at least that is what I was trying to convey to him with that statement.
Yeah, it was maybe not edited in the best way, but it is just flat words on screen, and you have percieved me saying it out loud like a gobby tool. Had we been face to face, James would have been assured from my body language, voice and facial expression that I bore him no malice, and was in fact just stressed at the car and seeking his help.
You're not so shy of giving it on both barrells so you will understand I'm sure.

Captain Cotswold

Thanks for the advice Tabs, I may go down this route in the near future.

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

to set up a PF09 :

1. With the ECU multi-plug plugged into the ECU, turn on the ignition.
2. Connect your negative probe to ECU Pin 1
3. Connect your positive probe to ECU Pin 17
4. Adjust the sensor to read <0.35volts at idle position.

Toe Knee

iTrader: (2)

is that the same precedure and values a PF01?! have a problem with mine sticking etc and althou ahve cleaned it still does it, swapped it with another one but if ive got an accurate way to check the TPS is set right with a multimeter will help me alot!

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

PF01:
1. Disconnect the ECU multi-plug from the ECU itself and then with a multimeter:
2. Connect probes to ECU Pin 1 and 17
3. Adjust the sensor until it is just open circuit and ensure it drops to a resistance reading the moment the throttle is moved, but be certain it always goes open circuit with the throttle released.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thats as good a description as you will get but that doesnt always work sadly, especially with P8. However, if you still have issues, drop lower by 0.1v at a time until its ok.

dom123

iTrader: (1)

ive got a autodata cd rom and it says the resistaces at closed and at fully open is this a good way of doing it with the throttle housing in your hand and a ohm meter?

cheers

col93saphcos

iTrader: (2)

thats what i did,ended up 0.27v(im pretty sure)to get it right,bloody manual says 0.6v i think so took me alot of tries to get it

Captain Cotswold

Alright Jon@work,
Thanks, thanks alot. This kind of instruction I understand. Brilliant.

Just on the subject, I didn't know if I'd turned it the right way while trying to set the tps by feel alone. I turned clockwise. Dug out my w.s. manual last night to check it's opinion, and in very clear english it says 'rotate anti-clockwise etc' (My FAIL!! so with your info, I should be able to get her as near as dammit to original. Sweet.

Captain Cotswold

Ok, nice one. Thanks Stu.

Captain Cotswold

Awesome help guys.
Particular thanks to Jon@work.
and Stu,
'However, if you still have issues, drop lower by 0.1v at a time until its ok.'

Re-set my tps to 0.26 and idle is spot on again.

Thankyou again.

Tabs, how the hell do you get your car to be so efficient?? My car has standard blue injectors, standard etc, etc and yet running a bigger turbo and greys yours manages much more out of the tank than mine.
You don't have some kind of Tardis Tank on yours do you?? lol

Can I get a good tuner to get to that level with a chip and set-up only, or will I have to get an ecu the same as you have? ( I will have greys and my t34-43 and cooler on at set-up time)
If so, does the new unit have the same 35 pin plug as the oem ecu, or will I have to alter it?
Thanks for your time mate. Genuinely appreciated.

midnight_man

Hi boys,

I have problem with cold idle...I must rev engine to 3000-4000rpm on cold until its get some temp.

I think that my ISCV is not working propertly. ( I cleaned it, no result).

I am thinking about....Are 2wd and 4WD ISCVs same?

Thanks a lot.