Miltz

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of planning a 4x4 conversion for my MK1 Escort and seeing as there's a few here that have done 4x4 conversions on various model Escorts and Cortinas I was hoping that I could get some pointers. The plan is for a full Escort WRC chassis build but being in Australia help is hard to come by. While the early cars are popular projects, British Fords from the mid 80's onwards are rare here and I haven't heard of anyone trying to convert an early model car into a 4x4 using Sierra/Sapphire/Escort RS Cosworth chassis. So on with the questions.....

What chassis is best, do I need a Sapphire RS Cosworth 4x4/Escort RS Cosworth chassis or are all Sierra (rear wheel drive/4x4/RS Cosworth) chassis basically the same? If not, but if the date of manufacture saw changes are there particular years to go for, e.g. were there updates made when the Sapphire RS Cosworth 4x4 was released in the early 90's that was applied to the rear wheel drive or lower spec 4x4's bringing them up to the same chassis spec? Basically did all Sierras/Sapphires/Escorts share the same chassis in terms of mountings etc?

If converting to an Escort WRC spec chassis does it matter what I start with, if the chassis of all Sierra/Sapphire/Escort RS Cosworths are basically the same (provided they are) does it matter or are there differences that will affect this despite all being fine to use as the basis for an 4x4 Cosworth conversion standard trim?

Also in regard to converting to a WRC chassis, does the wheel track increase over the standard Escort RS Cosworth as this will affect the amount of room you need for the wheels, I'm hoping to get them into standard MK1 bubble arches, and if not without having to make them too much wider, I'm aware the standard Escort RS Cosworth is about 6" wider than a MK1 and am hoping the bubble arches will account for this.

Secondly, what do I look for in terms of chassis condition, problems areas for rust etc? I have friends in the UK that can look at cars for me before bringing one over to Australia but it would be handy if I could give them a list of areas to check on the car that are of most concern.

And finally, for those that have done conversions, and I've been following the conversions of a few early Escorts (MK1, 2, 3 and 4) and Cortinas in this forum, are there any tips you're willing to share or things you would have done differently in hindsight? I've seen that there's been a few different approaches to get the same result and am trying to combine the best of what you have all done.

Thanks in advance!

Miltz

Hi again,

I've started a build thread for my conversion, not much to show so far and there probably won't be too many posts until this thread answers some of my questions but feel free to follow the link for a look.

https://passionford.com/forum/restor...onversion.html

AJC

iTrader: (6)

User Graham C has done this. Search in the resto room

Miltz

Hi Andy,

I've actually followed his build from start to finish, it was the first 4x4 conversion I found on the net before finding a few others on this forum that I have since been following too, his build was without doubt the main reason I'm now considering it myself! I don't recall him mentioning what he used as a donor car or whether it was suitable for a WRC conversion but the info he has provided and more so the pictures have been a great help.

I am intending on sending him a message, along with a few others, to make them aware of this thread and hopefully they'll be willing to share what they've learnt along the way when it comes time to build for both me and anyone else interested in a similar project. The threads I've followed most have been graham c's, andy ascos's, -beefy-'s and Cyril Sneer's, all have used slightly different approaches which have their own benefits and drawbacks and I'm hoping to use the best of each conversion for my own and share that information here for anyone else who is interested.

In the meantime the main piece of information I need relates to what shell to use that would allow a a WRC build to happen with the minimum amount of fuss, with any luck a base model Sierra of any year or spec will share all of it's mountings etc with an Escort RS Cosworth!

Miltz

Hi all,

Just found this over on the RS Owner Club forum, looks like a few from here have already seen it but thought I'd share it for those that haven't, unfortunately it seems he doesn't have anything on the passionford boards (correct me if I'm wrong!) so I'll have to send you over there.

http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/rsocbb...d.php?t=360088

This is the approach I was intending on taking for the floor although I'm still yet to work out how to tackle the wing, rs2000ginge has his inner wings mounting off the strut tower which I'm keen to avoid as I plan on using WRC top mounts and would like full access to them from the engine bay, once again if anyone has anymore info I (and I'm sure many others) would love to hear.

And once again, if anyone can shed some light on the choice of chassis could you let me know, the donor car is the biggest hold up at the moment and the sooner I know what to look for the sooner I can get my build under way.

Miltz

Hello all,

I've found another thread in this forum asking the difference between floor pans and wanted to see if anyone could confirm the information.

https://passionford.com/forum/genera...-cosworth.html

The suggestion is that there is a difference between a RWD and 4x4 in that the 4x4 has a larger transmission tunnel to accommodate the front prop-shaft and cut outs in the front chassis legs to take the front driveshafts.

Therefore I assume I'll be needing a 4x4 chassis regardless of manufacture date, the question is which one? Aside from the wheelbase, are Sierra XR4x4, Sapphire RS Cosworth and Escort RS Cosworth chassis' fundamentally the same remembering I want to build it up to Escort WRC spec?

I also dug this up while searching the net for more build info, does anyone know anything about this car and where I might be able to find some more info?

http://www.andysautobody.co.uk/mk1-escort-cosworth-4x4/

blake999

Hi
Just to say your a brave man to tackle this, however that said I am currently converting one at the moment and finding it relatively easy, I don't see you mentioning it on here. I used a 1988 Sierra Sapphire Cosworth shell It did not matter to me as I am bucking the trend because I am sticking to 2WD (more fun) using a Mondeo V6 power plant and Granada box just to be different. have a look see what you think http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...k1-MONSCORT-V6

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

hi mate there is a difference in a 2wd shell and 4x4 ,2wd has a different shaped tunnel ,witch would need modding to take the transferre box of the 4x4 gear box not a hard job really and probly need to mod the gear box cradle if you went down the 2wd tunnel route hope that helps

andy

Miltz

Hi Blake,

I take it that's your car at the bottom of rs2000ginge's thread over RSOC boards? I tried digging up some more info on it but couldn't find anything, I'm not signed up to Turbosport but will have to get around to creating an account for a look, cheers for the link!

Miltz

Hi Andy,

Thanks for that, confirms what I thought in that I'd be best off starting with a 4x4 chassis. The question now is which one will be best given I intend on building it up to WRC spec, if all mountings etc are the same on all cars then I guess I can pick any.

blake999

yep that's the one, it's moved on a bit from that shot, it's all dismantled now and in a home made roll over frame with the inside, underside. and engine compartment now painted

Miltz

G'day again Blake,

I've signed up to Turbosport and had a look at your build, great work!

The way you've treated the front inner wings is similar to what I'd envisioned, obviously as I'm yet to cut my car apart yet I had no idea as to whether that approach would work though. How did you go about lining up the panels before building up the new inner arches? I was planning on leaving the original hinge panels and hinges, upper inner wing and slam panel in place when removing the rest of the front end with bracing welded in to support it in the correct location as a guide, once again I have no idea how well this will work until I start cutting away at what I don't need.

Also, the way you've widened your bubble arches is also pretty close to how I was going to attack it, only at the rear I was going to extend the new chassis inner arches out to meet the widened bubble arches in a similar way to they did on the Group 4 cars with steel arches.

blake999

Cheers for that it is a lot of work but interesting work, as to the lining things up there is a photo of how I did this somewhere on the thread, but it involved a screwed rod frame that was bolted up through the original Sierra inner wings then kept central by bolting that frame to the engine, then the screwed rod was bolted through the very end of the wing drip rails the other end of the drip rail can only go in one place in relation to the scuttle panel, the idea with the screwed rod frame was it was completely adjustable to get height, and gaps spot on, then just fill in the difference between Sierra inner wing and Escort drip rail, you will also notice that wings and front panel are bolt on hope that helps
Blake

Miltz

Cheers for that info Blake! I saw the supports in a few shots on page 2 of your build, the ones connecting to the wing rails to the new chassis inner wings anyway, I didn't notice the final support going to the engine that kept everything in line though. With that piece of advice I may go along a similar route but will still have to weld supports in to keep the original wing rails and slam panel from breaking off while cutting out everything else. Obviously having the adjustable rods in place to get the right fitment between the Escorts front wings and the rails would have made work a lot easier when it came to lining everything up, it's tips like these that I was hoping this thread would bring out of the woodwork!

graham c

iTrader: (5)

piece of piss lad

blake999

As Graham says, it's a piece o piss really, it's about applying the mind to the problem in front, that's why people do the same task differently, but end result is the same

Blake

Miltz

I'm hoping so, Graham!

Have you got any more pics from earlier in your build that weren't posted in your build thread? If you do, I'd (and I'm sure plenty of others would) appreciate if you were willing to share them! Best of luck with your rebuild, I can't wait to see the finished product!

Miltz

Hi all,

I've come across a complete and running 1991 Sierra XR4x4 with Cologne V6 which is going for a good price that I'm thinking of snapping up for the conversion. As I mentioned earlier I'm planning on doing a WRC coversion on the chassis and was hoping someone could get back to me ASAP as to whether the non-RS Sierra 4x4 chassis shared the same suspension mounting points etc as the Escort RS Cosworth so that standard WRC parts can be used?

Cheers in advance for any advice!

jamie's

xr4x4 floorpan is the same as the cosworth 4x4 saphire, which is the same as the escort cosworth(the escort is slighly shorter but you'll be cutting it up anyhow so that dont matter

Miltz

Thanks for that Jamie, that's what I wanted to hear! I'll chase the owner up over the weekend.

Miltz

Hi all,

I may have hit a snag with the import of the 1991 Sierra XR4x4, being that the government doesn't seem to want to approve it as it doesn't meet elidgibility criteria with the options they've given me now being to import a Sapphire RS Cosworth 4x4 which does or bring in a pre January 1989 car which doesn't need to meet any creiteria apart from it's age. Therefore was hoping someone could tell me if the pre 1990 (or more to the point a 1988 or earlier) 2.8l chassis and driveline (including front diff and sump) is the same as the later 2.9l cars?


Cheers.

graham c

iTrader: (5)

Shoukd be just the engine's were different just dont buy an estate ! As they are not the same

Miltz

Cheers for that Graham.

Am still hoping to the the 1991 car over, should hopefully get a response from Department of Infrastructure later this week or Monday next week at the latest. Do you (or anyone else) know if the 2.8l sump is the same as the 2.9l sump?

Miltz

Hi all,

Been a while since I've posted here but I did end up getting the 1991 XR4x4 with the 2.9i engine to use as a base for my project. If anyone has any advice regarding the conversion or knows of any other similar builds please post links or advice, any information is much appreciated!


Cheers,

Miltz

blake999

Just a teaser to get you going, you have read the thread on this, have upgraded to Supercharger just to wake the beast up

Miltz

Hi Everyone,

Not too much to report other than I'm about to start cutting things up so was hoping for some answers regarding wheelbases before I make a real mess of things.

I've got conflicting info on the wheelbase of a MK1, while most seem to agree it's 2400mm there's a few reputable sources claiming 2315mm, quite a big difference...

And for the XR4x4 chassis I have (early 90s) the numbers range from 2608 to 2611, not much in this but I'd like to match them as close as possible!

If anyone has any firm numbers that would be great, at the moment there's an 88mm range (208-296mm) in how much I need to remove from the XR4x4 chassis which isn't exactly wriggle room!


Cheers,

Miltz

Caddyshack

Maybe line it up based on the Ackerman being right as that would determine the correct location. The “V” of the Ackerman needs to meet in the centre of the rear diff and the arms need to line up with the imaginary line through ball joint and steering arms..

Miltz

And does anyone have the wheel track measurements for a Sierra XR4x4 and Escort RS Cosworth WRC (tarmac spec)?

I believe the XR4x4 is as follows though I'm not sure how it's been measured, hub face to hub face or to the centreline of the wheels:
Front - 1480mm
Rear - 1485mm

Any help would be appreciated as I'm looking at machining up some spacers that will allow me to mount Escort WRC tarmac wheels to the Sierra XR4x4 chassis at the correct width so I can widen the forest arches enough to allow for a future conversion to a WRC spec chassis.


Miltz

Caddyshack

Mark at MK motorsport has a jig of the WRC escort

Miltz

Hi Caddyshack,

I have a rough understanding of Ackerman but I'm not sure how you'd use this to calculate the wheelbase. The Escort is completely disassembled so can't really take any measurements off of this car, the XR4x4 is still intact though.

Miltz

Hi again,

Do you think Mark would be happy to pass out this information?

Caddyshack

I do not see why he would have an issue with it, ping him an email: sales@mkmotorsport.co.uk

ossie cossie

this is for an escos

Miltz

If I could get something like that for a 90s XR4x4 (and a MK1 escort for that matter) that would be awesome!