Hi Folks, This is my second attempt today to try to post this query, but so far no luck!!. I have a fuel pump problem with my 1990 2 litre non-injection GLS owned for nearly 14 years and 73K miles!Basically it's been suddenly just dying both when hot and when cold, but with a good spark. I think it's the submerged pump, so changed the tank and then the ECU as the tank change didn't work. Now it's died completely and had to be towed home. There is no fuel coming through, though the line is clear. I cannot hear the pump running at all EXCEPT when I blow hard down the fuel line with the ignition on - - then it runs for a couple of seconds only, but still no fuel comes up!. I have cleaned all the Relays - as I don't now which one works the pump (or I would try a replacement new one!), but no joy yet.Does anyone have any suggestions please? Thanks, Richard

 

If you can see the wires/colours to the pump then they will tell you which relay it is, by having the same colour(feed one) in the relay holder at pin 87(relay output) of the relay.
Try a direct live down here and the pump will run, if ok, if not it won't of course, so then it's either a pump or wiring problem.
Relays can be troublesome on sierras, but just get a new one if needed, from auto electrical place, lot cheaper than ford, so long as terminals are in the same place and it's same or higher amperage it will do fine, does not have to be a ford one.
tabetha

 

Many thanks for that. I will try tomorrow!, Richard

 

Not doubting the guy but I found this strange.Ok owned for 14yrs so he should know what he owns but 2Lgls non injection with an ecu?.I swear my mum had a 89 F or G brand spanker GLSI and didnt think you could get non injection at that time.Ours wasnt a twin cam just ohc 2.0 efi.Between about 83-95 we owned a garage with sales and hire cars,most of the cars that we had were 2-3 year old fords/vaux thingys ovlovs and rovers.you know mostly run of the mill stuff some sports but mainly ex rep and I have never seen one non injection that late on GLS anyway. Must be rare any thoughts,Tabs ?.

 

Hi, I can assure you that my car definately has an ECU and also that it's not fuel injection!!. That's why I bought it in the first place as I didn't then trust the complications of FI !!.I think that you will find that that syastem came in in 1991..However, any ideas as to how I can identify the correct Relay for the fuel pump - in case it's just that playing up - as looking at the fuse box there seems no way to visualise the colours of the wiring to be able to cross check with the Haynes wiring charts???. Thanks, Richard

 

I think by ECU he may mean more basic management like ESC although I am pretty sure this would be EFI it it had electric fuel pump?

Martin

 

you didnt check to see if the inertia switch in the boot was pop'ed or cross the 2 wires out with a scotchlock to see if it runs then?

 

89 can be had as above without efi, the cu just has the ignition side of things, plus the idle control for the carb which has a stepper motor.
Must admit only seen a few though.
tabetha

 

Hi again, Yes, maybe it's just a 'limited' Control Unit and not a full ECU!. But it's certainly only a carb - - apparantly a much better setup than the FI which followed it. Certainly I used to get up to 44-45 mpg on long continental runs at French moderate speeds, but doubt that FI would have bettered that figure with the loads we used to carry!I have tried jumping the boot mounted 'cutoff' with no luck and still cannot see how to 'see' the wires under the fusebox unless I try to unbolt it from the bulkhead.Petrol tank's off again, so know which wire code to look for.That's tomorrows job!, Thanks again, Richard

 

Hi,

Does your car have air conditioning by any chance? As these were the models with an electric fuel pump excluding FI. Fuse number is 11, the relay for the pump is IX in the fuse box.

Hope this helps,

Martin

 

Hi Martin,
Once again thanks for info. No she's not an A/C model ( as I have more than once wished over the years, especially when in France!).
However, am sure that the relay you have identified will be the one to try swapping so that's a task for today!.

These models certainly have a submerged electric pump as I have had it out of the tank and tested it on a separate battery!.(and it works Ok that way)

I also have a 2000 Mondeo but overall despite the A/C and Power Steering on the latter I still sometimes prefer to use the Sierra - - especially as it's such a good load carrier. I has - even now late in life - a bit more torque for a start compared with the 1.8 Mondeo.

Cheers for now, Richard

 

Oh i see, yours is DOHC then.

 

Yup, that's the bird!. I have had a succession of Fords for the last 20 years or so and reckon that the old girl has been about the best of the lot.
Once I get this glitch sorted out I hope to be able to keep here a long while yet. Terrible to get attached to a car, eh?,
Richard

 

If you identify the relay for the pump, look at it's terminals, number 30 or 30/51 is power input from battery/fuse, no 87 is the output, so if putting a live down here starts the pump it gets you a lot nearer, then see if it is lack of feed to relay from fuse/battery, lack of earth at relay(85) or lack of switching signal to energise relay(86).
NB some makers get mixed up over 85 and 86, makes no difference it works eithe way round as it just causes a magnetic pull inside relay to pull contacts closed.
tabetha

 

Dear Tabetha/Martin!,Guess what – the old girl obviously just likes to b----r me about!.I put the tank back in place and went to try the various checks as suggested and I just thought I would check that still no fuel was coming through and that she remained ‘dead’. BUT - - the damn thing started first time and has so far lasted for a couple of short local runs, so that’s really thrown me. I identified the Relay with those pin numbers ( in position II as a matter of fact and I also found Fuse position 11 is a 30 amp ‘spare’ !!). This model certainly did vary, didn’t it?.Any way, I tried ‘pulling’ the Relay and she still started – then tried pulling it whilst running and she continued happily (same with the 30 amp fuse - - in fact with all fuses taken out one at a time!). I then pulled each Relay out in turn and no difference – she just ‘runs’ OK. How can that be????Where in heck do I go now?. Apart, I guess, from going on a long run and just waiting for problems so as to be able to see what’s then ‘not’ working. You can bet that would happen in the most awkward road situation possible, of course!).Anyone got any ideas to add to this ‘saga’ please?. Cheers, Richard

 

Thats strange perhaps they changed fuses/relay locations for 90 onward spec.

How long did you pull the relay for, it may be you pulled the relay and fuse but there was enough fuel in the carb to keep it going for a short while. I would think if you drove away without either of them the car would soon die. With fuse 11 you mean it is seated but has no circuit connected to it?

Remove relay and turn ignition on and see if you can still hear the pump if you cant them this defently identifies the relay.

Keep smiling shes at least running at the moment

Martin

 

Hi Martin,. Good point!. I had played around with stopping and starting several times thinking she would again die on me, and just maybe I didn't leave the Relay out long enough in my frrustration!. (the oddity of the fuses not terminating the running still baffles me!. Position 11 is shown on the underside of the fusebox lid as being 'blank' (ie:'Spare'?) by the way).

I went for a drive of some 3 miles ans needless to say it went perfectly - - but that's par for the course with this darn fault!!
Once I get home today I will have a bash at trying to start her with the Relay out and also listening for the pump whine first.(couldn't hear it before with the engine running, of course).
I do now have a set of all Relays from a Breakers, so will start carrying them now!.

Thanks for sticking with the Saga!,
Update later, Richard

 

Tuesday night update - Mission Impossible continues!:Hi Martin, I have had a continuing frustrating time with ‘pulling’ Relays without effect!.I reckon I ought to name the darn thing “ Christine” for the way it runs without power - - there is only one relay that seems to fit the pin-pattern and numbering , but she will happily start without it and will run for 5 –10 minutes with it pulled. It will also start and run without the 30amp fuse. I must have spent well over an hour and a half trying these sequential removals, so am stuck again. I then went for a decent drive without problems, but I just know it’s going to happen again at the least convenient moment. I actually again removed ALL the relays (and fuses), one by one, and she starts immediately each time and will run well over the 5- 6 minutes that I left it in each case, so it’s not using residual fuel in the carb/lines, and I have never heard of a carb able to ‘suction’ fuel from a tank once running. It’s just a crazy situation, but a fact!.The only relay that seemed slightly odd was a red one in position II which was rated at 70 amps and which got well and truly very hot to the touch after half an hour. None of the others was more than even slightly warm-ish, so I changed that one. Apart from that, I cannot see why she runs or what to check next. Until it packs up again and I can start some sort of step by step checking (and knowing my luck that’ll be in the rain, at night and on a motorway!!!) I guess I am stumped.Wish I had a friendly Ford agent within reach, but the only one near here that I tried wouldn’t even discuss parts or systems, simply shrugging and clearly wanting to make it into an expensive ‘investigation’ !.What a pain, Cheers, Richard

 

there is a relay and fuse under the glove box for the fuel pump, in the owners handbook it says it is for fuel injected engines but it might be worth looking into.

cheeRS nick.

 

Hey, thanks for that. It's nearly 11pm but I am almost tempted to go out and look now!.It's jogged my memory that that was the fuse arrangement on a 1.6 Sierra I had many years back, but there's been nothing in the Haynes manual on this one to remind me of such a unit. Cheers, Richard

 

Dear Nicksaph,Hey!, that was inspired. I went out first thing this morning at 7am and found the right Relay labelled 'Benzinepompe' under the glovebox. Changed it and she started at once. A long test run tomorrow is called for, and even if it does turn out to be somethng else in the system at least I now have identified the right Relay so can check continuity, etc, as per Tabetha and Martin's suggestions. A major step forward so VERY many thanks. Cheers, Richard

 

Good stuff, was the relay purple by any chance?

Martin

 

I think they might be black in this location ?, if any relay is getting HOT as opposed to warm then something is wrong.
tabetha

 

Hi Folks, Yes it's Purple!. I managed a 20 mile run today without problem so just maybe all is well again. Time wil tell.Tabetha I am just down the road!!!!. Home is Weeting, and would love to pop up to you when convenient. Home number is 01842-819969. do give me a call to fix up a meet.Regards to all who offfed advice, Richard

 

Will do matey, Roosie is from weeting too!!
tabetha

 

Glad it's sorted, so did you actually replace the relay?

Martin.

 

i am fookin good i am!!!!!!!

cheeRS nick

 

Nicksaph - Yes mate, you are good!!. Yes Martin, I did replace the fuel pump Relay and one other that was feeling darn hot!Tabetha - lets get the May holiday out of the way and then give me a call one evening and I will nip over., Cheers all, Richard