havv

as above. engine has been rebuilt, the followers were replaced as they had popped out but the camshaft wasnt. ive been told they should be replaced together. so got the car back and it was completely powerless and was a hell of a tart to start up especially from cold.

when it did i had to hold the revs at 2000+ for 4ish mins till it will idle down to 1500 and stay there, wont ever go lower.

now it the starter motor turns, but the car wont fire up. sparks are coverd in black soot, but the mechanic said he has set it to be run rich for some reason. replaced them but still wont work.

sound like the camshaft complelty gone?? or any ideas??

thanks all!

Aaroncast

first idea!!!!!!!!!-take it back>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

havv

loll yea believe me its on my mind lol. but theyr just going to say yea its your cam, thatl be another 200 blah blah and i cant be bothered with them anymore. any ideas what the problem could be. its nothing simple// as in i have more than enough petrol, the fuel pump seems to engage, battery is charged. just wont start up!

tabetha

What car ?
This setting rich bit is crap, don't need to be, if mix is way too rich, this will prevent it from starting, as mix won't be combustable.
More details on the car needed, if you are sure you want to do it yourself.
Hopefully something easy but, confused folowers popping out ?, if car was gutless could be valve timing out, but it should cough and fart a little occasionally ?
tabetha

havv

sorry its a erst 89. i am sure i want to do it myself, i am a capable mechanic as long as i have step by step instructions.

the timing is -2 off tdc. i dont know if that is of any help.

and talking about farting, the car pops when i try to start it, that was before, now it wont even do that. Itd pop from the exhaust, sounds like air is in there somewhere. could say its as loud as a misfire, but the revs dont drop.

also, when it started, for me to get it to rev at all, i had to have the accelerator pedal completly floored, and the revs would increase very very very slowly from 500 to 1200, and then after that it would rev normally.

about the followers, when i took the car to the garage, thinkning the only tapping/knoking sound wass coming from under the rocker cover, they found a couple of the follwers pushed out. so they replaced them, but then we heard the actual knocking coming from the bottom end. thats been complely rebuilt, but the cam hasnt been touched. ive ive been told that signs of camshafts going are being powerless major running problems. and believe me it was POWERLESS! now it wont start!

can i adjust the mixture myself without a CO2 reader? or is that a pro job??

SafeChav

It won't be the cam it would have to be fucked beyinf belief!

Take it take back and tell them what a bunch of bullshitting cunts they are!!

havv

cool im giving them a call now.

any other ideas please let me know!

are you sure its not the cam because then i wont spend money on a new 1! When the mechanic took it out, he said there was no execcive wear on the lobes or anything...

but then again thats from the same guy who gave me a recondidionted engine which doesnt work.

i just had a word with him 10mins ago and he said the had to run it rich otherwise the car wouldnt idle (which it now does at 1500) and he is 10000000% cerain the reason for lack of power is because it needs a proper tune up, where theyl be able to retard and adjust the timing so it will idle and drive properly. so far the cars only done about 40miles since recon.

SafeChav

Is the cam noisy?

Running rich is bad for the engine full stop. Theres obviously something silly wrong with it and he couldnt get it set up right, possibaly an air leak or similar. Has he not set the ignition timing and CO to their basic settings?

Sounds a bit shit to me personally

tabetha

Trust us he aint no mechanic who has done this to your car.
It will need checking from the ground up, ie first thing, cam/valve timing, then ignition setting to static.
This is what I would do, to start with, by the sounds of it you are more clued up than the man you have been using, might as well sort it yourself as you can't rely on him to do a good job anyway ?
tabetha

havv

believe me from reading nearly every post on in this section ive learnt a hell of a lot, infact ive been telling him what to do! any more help will be great... if any ideas on these problems come up please tell me..

should i reset the ig timing back to tdc?

SafeChav

if your guna do it yourself mate, start with the basics.

Time it to TDC and check the cam belt timing. Obviously if thats out it will cause problems, if not you need find why it won't idle right and so forth, ignition timing will be tricky if the engine isn't running right.

But in the long run yes you want to set the ignition timing to standard settings and then take it to have the emissions set up.

havv

will do!

found out a little more whilst playing around... fuel pump or relay has gone... i took out the inlet injector from the carb and put it into a bucket, and started the car...

at 1st click when the fuel pump engages (which it does with a buzz) there is a rush of fuel.. but as i crank the engine there is no spurts of fuel...

now i dont know if the fuel pump under thecar near the fuel tank has gone (i dont think so as it makes noise when in 1st click and when cranking), the relay or the fiel pump in the engine (im not to sure on this atm). any ideas?

also.. checked the spark from the HT leads... 2 and 4 are dead, 2 being non existant, and 4 being very very very weak...! so i think im running on 2 cylinders, which may explain a HELL of a lot. and youd think HT leads would be replaced during a rebuild!

SafeChav

Firstly..........."inlet injector from the carb" Thats a non existent part of an RST.

Now im guessing you mean the injector pipe? If no fuel sprays check to see if the flap moves when you crank the engine (it wont if you remove an injector though)

spark - you checked the dizzy cap/rotor arm?

havv

yea i meant that! been reading so much on injectors im getting confused. the flap moves wen all connected up. but the haynes manual says there should be rushes of fuel. i only get the one rush when its priming.

dizzy cap and rotor arm look fine. there was a bit of deposits on the 4 metal things in the cap but i cleaned that right off...

rotor arm looks fine, but i dont know what to look for lol .

im changing the fuel pump relay (the 1 that should be pink but mine is black), and the ht leads, hopefully thatl fix a good few problems.

havv

o just a quick question... what is the firing order of the car?

erst 1989 cvh?

at the dizzy cap does it matter what order the ht leads are plugged in, because atm the are just 1,2,3,4...

SafeChav

the relay sounds like its working.

Now......you say this rush of fuel. What pipe is that from. You shouldnt get ANY fuel into the injectors when it primes, fuel should only spray in when the pump runs and the flap is pushed down (hence why i ask if it moves when you crank)

havv

o... umm

well its a thick red pipe carrying fuel, much thicker than the injector pipes... i think its coming from the fuel filter (like a grey thing on the right side of the car...)

im pretty sure its an inlet pipe from the filter actully into the carb...

havv

when you say it moves, it moves up and down. it doesnt just move and stay down.

SafeChav

Thats the main fuel line coming from the accumulator. You need to test to see if you get fuel to the injectors although if it runs you must be.

Personally if you are sure the spark is weak i would concentrate on that first, it must have fuel getting in if it runs yea?

yea thats correct

havv

well when i took the injectors off to see if there was fuel there (at the fuel distributor) there was fuel in all of them, so im sure fuel is getting there. when it did run (as you know after the rebuild), it wouldnt idle or even like going below 1500, it would just cut out and die unless i floored it, then it would take a 5-6secs to return back up to 1500rpm.

fuel must be getting in, but with a lack of rushes of fuel, doesnt that mean the engine is not getting enough fuel to start up.

o yea and also i looked in the fusebox and the INJ fuse was melted. it had like lots of bubbles in the fuse so i replaced that...

a relay and ht leads cant be 2 expensive so i mayaswell replace them to take them out the equation right?

SafeChav

The INJ fuse is for the fuel pump i believe, classic sign of the fuel pump drawing too much current i expect.

I'd start with the dizzy cap and rotor arm personally - Ł10

stevo123

firing order is 1-3-4-2 (anticlockwise looking at end of dizzy from passenger side)

havv

so at the dizzy they should be in that order, or in the actual engine?

i dont know why this is confusing me lol

SafeChav

If you time the engine up to TDC, remove the dizzy cap and the rotor arm will be pointing at a contact on the cap, thats number 1.

The from there as you look at the cap, anti clockwise the leads go on in the order 1 3 4 2

havv

right, am in the process of sorting out the timing and correct oorder of firing.

how many relays are there for the fuel pump? i can only find the purple one under the dash. anyone know how to bridge this just to see if its the relay thats gone or the pump???

havv

im just thinking, could it be my fuel pump, as when its under pressure, if its clogged up, it wont allow those bursts of fuel? or is that rubbish lol ??

SafeChav

I thought you were concentrating on the weak spark issue?

havv

well i cant really get to the bottom of that untill the car starts !

leads are coming tomrrow...

AAman

sounds to me like the plug leads were in the wrong order, causing it to only run on 2cyls and the "mechanic" has set it so rich that it's fouled the plugs up...

havv

thats exactly what i think. hopefully no damadge has been done, just new sparks, leads and the right firing order should solve that... but am a little baffled to why im not getting those fuel spurts. havent changed the relay yet, but i dont know if that is the problem. its not the metering unit, or the filter or the accumulator i dont think as fuel is rushing past all of these with the 1st click. when cranking i dont get a drop though...

so the relay i think is charging from the initial burst of electricity (1st click) but then is freezing itself.

i heard these relays are very common to go... and i cant seem to find any... anywhere!

AAman

going back to your rush of fuel... that sounds to me like the cold start injector pipe, you will get fuel there as you turn the ignition on, as it pressurises the system.. this would indicate to me that the relay and pump are working..
you need to start with the basics, the car did run, albeit badly, so there must have been some fuel and some sparks... you just need to find out which you have lost!
trust me, this will be something very simple, I deal with these kind of faults every day!

havv

yea i know its something simple, just dont know where to look... for the fuel issues anyway..

i know the spark is bad because there isnt one from 2 and 4, and on op of that, the firing order is wrong, so that should hopefully solve my starting/idle and hopefully power issues. its just the fuel now...

the pipe that i tested for the rushes was the one coming from the bottom of the fuel filter (right of the fuel distributor) into the fuel distributor... is that the right one.??..

what does the accumulator do. i read it dampens the pressure of fuel coming through.. so how could i test the accumulator??

AAman

to be honest i wouldn't worry at all about the accumulator or fuel pressure or any of that at the mo.. if all you have had done is the engine rebuilt, then it will be something actually on the engine... providing the car ran ok before the re-build..
I would make sure all the boost pipes are connected properly, all the wiring plugs are on and the leads are in the right order. where in the world are you ?? is there no-one close that could have a nose at it for you??

havv

lol im in croydon, surrey... well i cant take the car anywhere as it wont start, and im tight on money as it all went on that shity mechanic.

car was fine before rebuild... but relays etc can go whenever they want.. and although he was rubbish, the mechainc did say that id need to look at the fuel pump as its on its way out... fuel pump seems fine from the tests ive done but it may be something along the lines.

will the car ever start if i dont get those rushes of fuel??

AAman

i would be inclined to take an injector out of the inlet manifold and stick it in a tub, still attached to the pipe. turn on the ignition so the fuel line is pressurised (better still, by-pass the realy) and push the flap in the metering head down a little, this is where you should see fuel spray from the injector..

havv

how could i by pass the relay?? its a 5 pin one

AAman

your relay should have terminal no.s on it, 85,86,87 & 30 and one other 87a i think, take relay out of the plug, and bridge the plug across terminals 87 & 30 that should power up the fuel pump..

havv

ok will do some tests and let you know! cheers for the help so far!!

SafeChav

Those numbers are wrong for the relay thats the numbers a SPDT relay will have on it, yours is a tachometric relay.

To bridge it insert a wire between the Red & Black/Red wires on the relay holder.

The pump will run continuously without a key in the ignition however

havv

ok cool. am going to do this later today, do the tests (injectors etc) and hopefully the car should start every time. still doesnt solve my problem on why im not getting those bursts, but getting closer i suppose.