adam151082

Awsome project this, been fancying one of these lately.

turbotoaster

Mini update, having the subframe mounts waterjetted this week so hope to have the seats in by the weekend, also we made our last trial fitment of our turbo to check everything clears, looks pretty good and ill probably use the roof scoop to either feed the air filter or to blow air on the turbo to keep engine bay temps down

manifold on

turbo mounted




then just need to sort oil line and return then the downpipe which will run over the top of the gearbox, the guys making everything have put alot of thought into so aslong as the engine holds together I can see light at the end finally.

andym

iTrader: (1)

Fantastic project I can't wait to see it on track, I must admit I'm not convinced about the aero package but I'm hoping you will prove me wrong!!
I was thinking about having a crack at time attack next year too, we are still using the elise body and Audi power, just upgraded the turbo to a Gt2867r so should be around 440 BHP and around 800kg.
Have you raced before or just track days?

turbotoaster

I havent raced before so it will be a new experience to me which im looking forward to, ive done a few trackdays before, the last one being at donnington so that will be where we are doing some testing as I know that circuit best and it has alot of run off areas.

It will be interesting to see how the aero package works, some of it is wind tunnel data, others are copying other cars and some is just a feeling for what the air will do.......it will either be very very fast in the corners or be all over the place.....noone will know until the first day on track.

Your car looks very quick, if you can get the traction then in club class you would be competitive, might be worth having a go at a One Hit Wonder

andym

iTrader: (1)

We have been to Donnington a fair few times this year, drop me a pm when you have your first outing as I would love to see how you get on.

turbotoaster

Will do, Randy from Hofmanns is helping me set the car up so when hes finished with it, it should handle pretty well.

Another little update, earlier in the thread I showed some pictures of the wheels I have bought, well the measurements I was told werent correct and would mean that the wheels wouldnt fit over the front calipers unless I ran massively thick spacers.

So they got sent back and i got a refund and bought a set of rota slipstreams.


The plan is to use these only on the front under 2 conditions, the 16x8s will have a set of kumho v70s which ill use in dry weather and the 15x6.5 will have normal road tyres for wet conditions.

The rear ill be running a set of rota gtrs(as its the closest looking 5 spoke in 4 stud i could find) in 17x9 et 25 with a 35mm hub adapter

Carlos-Titx

Love this !

Subscribed.

turbotoaster

Also cut my seat subframes out today, tomorrow ill put them in the bender to put a 50mm 90 degree bend in them so they can bolt to the chassis


At the moment I havent lightened them yet, mostly because im not sure how much I could pull out of them without weakening them to the point where they might flex in the corners, im hoping somebody might give me a few clues on that front, looking at other companies I can either put holes into it or take more out of the centre to give it more of a U shape.

But for the moment I stuck them on the scales and they weigh 1.46kg for a pair so added to the 3.02kg for the seat means im saving 10kg on a pair of seats over stock.

Next thing I did was try my 16x8 on the front to see how if they work.


When the wheel is down and the suspension compressed, on the outside the wheel is inside the edge of the arch by 15mm, then when moving the wheel through its steering arc it clears the steering arm joint by about 3mm!! and under full lock clears the brake line about about 10mm.

So they are et12, I would say in an ideal world they would be about et5 as that would allow just a bit more clearance, but they should work as they are, might have to trim the splitter on the inside aswell but will know when my tyres are on.

turbotoaster

Made a plate today for my crash structure.



The testiment of a good component is that it does more than one job hence im starting to rethink the car now on what else I can remove, lighten or get it to multiple jobs.

The plate is from 5mm ali that I used to make my seat subframes and wing uprights.

Its cut out to follow the shape of the crash structure.

I have 3 tie rods bolted through it and on the middle on my tow strap is attached(decided I needed the middle one as that was a potential droop area at speed)



This means the splitter downforce is distributed through out the crash structure rather than just one hole. What it also means is that worse case scenerio I end up in the gravel again when getting pulled out the strain is dispersed.

Its a much lighter setup than the original mild steel towbar and strengthens my tiebar points.

The splitter now has 5 tie bars connecting it and 9 bolts so will be going nowhere

turbotoaster

Also did some final checks on my front wheels(16x8 225/45/16) today after a stuck some tyres on them to check that my tyres dont hit the splitter or any other parts and good news is Its got the all clear for track, when the car is on full lock the tyre just skims the chassis, now since I dont really need full lock apart from parking then its fine.



On this one you can see my completed canards and end fence to put the force back into the splitter, also how the offset of the wheel fits in the arch, ill be taking the clam off to have the vents cut out, have the arches trimmed as i dont need a 35mm lip on the inside and some vents ontop of the arch to get any excess high pressure air out, the lower sill extensions will be removed to stop drag and let air out of the wheelarch.


Will be putting my rear wheels on later this week, im waiting on home hub adapters to arrive, for the moment I through a couple of old tyres on them so I could check clearance on my bodywork and chassis


Another little update,

Fitted my seats tonight, took me 5hrs because I had to make all the subframes(designing and making your own takes alot of thinking about!!) and drill all the holes etc, did the passenger one first just incase I did something wrong and ended up with the seat at the wrong angle, for the passenger im not to fussed as sitting at in incorrect angle wont make any difference.



I did have a bit of a think about weight distribution while doing this.

One of the biggest benefits of a centre driving position is the better weight distribution, at over 100kg im the heaviest thing in the car so whereever i sit I massively effect the balance.

Now the time attack rules state that you have to have a passenger seat(im guessing to show that its still based on a street car so I cant just convert it, but what I can do is move the seats further over to the passenger side, this will sit me a little closer to centre, so I have stuffed the passenger seat as far over as possible

The thoughts are that if im carrying a passenger im not going to care to much about lap time so having them further out from the centre wont make any difference, but when im on my own I want the best distribution I can, moving 4kg over a couple of inches wont make a difference, but moving 110kg towards the centre will.

Also because the passenger seat is over as far as possible it gives me extra elbow room when driving on the road with a passenger, the biggest issue I had was rubbing elbows with my friends when driving which made it difficult to change gear, im hoping this will help.

Since the seat has no padding and is sitting on the floor Im also sitting at the lowest position I have managed to get since ive had the car so I can now finally see all of the rev counter/speedo(the drivers seat is tilted bringing the eyeline down by about 2inch which also seems to help me feel ive got more lateral support aswell)

Since the seat is also touching the harness bar aswell as the floor, there is no flex anywhere which is good news being a fibreglass seat

Changing the seats saved me 10kg which is always a bonus, just need to mount my harnesses to subframes and get some short m8 bolts to replace the random collection ive used

just waiting on the engine bits, kevlar doors and final aero pieces then and ill be able to start getting the car setup properly by someone who knows what they are doing(loads of suspension fiddling to help me run a lower wide height aswell, like wishbone spacers, bump steer mods, quick rack etc)

turbotoaster

Another little update,

Got myself a toe link kit with a brace, I think because of the high levels of grip and downforce the car will experience having the brace will help stop some flex in the subframe, I do have another idea to remove any flex as per the 260 cup but thats for another time



Also there is alot of talk about my wing upright and how they will flex all over the place and give babys cancer if you stand to close to them so tonight I got around to bracing them up.

Now what I wanted to avoid is anymore drag on the car, the car will be pretty draggy anyway but adding more to no reason isnt clever, so ive done these braces as high as possible while not being in the direct air stream or risk them interacting with the air going to my wing.

I was going to use threaded bar but came up with a more lightweight solution from my carbon stock pile, 8mm unidirectional carbon tube, its very strong in compression and stretching so will take up all the potential flex my uprights had plus its very light, a 80cm long piece weighs 27g!

So there they are fitted



Hope this keeps the masses happy to share a trackday with me now.

Also fitted my harnesses properly now the drivers seat is very angled to get my head lower and I had to flip the harnesses around for them to come through the slots properly, after sitting in them I think im going to invest in a 5/6 point for myself as I dont feel I can get enough tension on the lap belts to stop the should ones pulling upwards


Now I have alot more room im going to go up to a 300mm from a 280mm wheel to allow me to see the clocks better.

turbotoaster

Fitted my rear wheels and spacers tonight, as usual something that should take 5mins ended up taking 2hrs!!!




Turns out my spacers outer hub was 0.5mm to big so that they wouldnt fit inside my wheels, I dont have a lathe to hand i grabbed my angle grinder, put in a slitting disc and slowly ground the outer edge until they fitted into the wheel.

now ive been given a pair of 235/45/17 tyres so that I can check clearance and adjust accordingly, ill be running 255/40/17 but couldnt find any free to use.

Now thats not much different than the standard exige runs so you can imagine my surprise to find that the tires rub on the rear section of the clam! So since I had the angle grinder out I hacked out the inside of the clam until they fitted, will need to trim and tidy them properly with a dremel when I get chance




But they look good and fill the arches nice, my calculations so that I clear my diffuser worked out correctly aswell, 17x9 et-10 so the cars track is now 68mm wider at the front and 79mm wider at the rear, I might mill 5mm off the spacers but ill wait till I have a set of 255 kumhos before I do that to make sure there is still clearance to the diffuser

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

This is insane
I can't help but think a little ott on the aero though? Do you have any thing to base your designs off or is it a guess and see what it feels like and go from there?

Harryh24

iTrader: (1)

that's what I thought, I mean I know nothing about aero but looks way ott!

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

first time i've looked at this thread, some good efforts, but have to agree with the aero stuff, some of it looks quite extreme for something that already handles well.
some of the part swill actually allow side winds to dictate some of the control, wind grabbing the uprights on the rear spoiler will pull car as will the diffuser itself, sometimes less is more.
i'm sure when you get out in it you'll be able to tweak where needed anyhow.
still, good efforts

turbotoaster

Well if your going to have a go you may aswell go all out.

Some of my designs are based on standard aero dynamic theory, like running wing further back and higher up and the large splitter to create a big surface area so you have a large low pressure zone, then some of it is what i feel is the best solution like how my diffuser is designed(the layout of those strakes inside the diffuser arnt placed randomly for example)

Im hoping the car can produce around 300-350kg of balanced downforce at 100mph, the wing itself when complete can create 350kg all on its own but making sure the car is balanced is important else ill just have lot of high speed understeer.

People will think that aero is extreme and they are right, but to be able to compete in time attack, just being a light car with a good chassis isnt good enough, having massive apex speeds will make up for my lack of power, ill only have about 260-300bhp so what i loose down the straights I need to make up in the corners

Hence the front is pretty mad looking as the more downforce I can create at the front, the more of the wing I get access to, im hoping that at 150mph the car should almost double its own weight

turbotoaster

We are then going to try a big intercooler where the numberplate goes that is being fed by the side scoops(also the low pressure side of the wing will help put a low pressure area right behind the cooler helping to help cooling)

I will then put the numberplate where the OEM exhaust outlet goes.

This will remove a potential reliability issue of a chargecooler, remove the weight of front rad/pipework/water/pump, take weight off the front end to help the balance(as most of the weight loss has been at the back) and mean all the fresh air gets the front rad to keep the water temps down.

Ill be running a carbon panel between the exhaust and intercooler to keep the heat soak down

CrOwSoN15

However, without the aero, you'll be doing more than 150mph

Corners are where these things are won and lost though, so good luck to you, I hope it works well

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Top fab work matey..

turbotoaster

I wont be able to do 150mph actually, because of my shorter rods im limited to 7000rpm so because of my shorter ratio box ill be doing 146mph, I think the only place ill be able to hit that will be at silverstone mind, im thinking 135mph is more realistic around most uk circuits

thanks, its slowly getting there, ill be happy when the doors are on and the engine is running, least then I can see the light at the end of the tunnel

turbotoaster

My exhaust/downpipe components arrived today



3 90* bends, a flexi pipe 1.5m of straight and a reducer.

The reason for the reducer(only Ł3) is my current back box is 2.25" so the plan is in the short term to fit that while we are low boost and see what sort of noise we are making, that way when the boost is turned up ill know whether my current size is big enough rather than buying blind.

From testing the good news is the reducer fits perfectly over the 2.5" pipe so I wont need to buy a v band kit, I can just use an exhaust clamp, this means i only have to one more reducer for when I put the cat on come MOT time.

turbotoaster

Well some more parts arrived today from eliseparts



Got my polycarbonate windows, very light and also wobberly so ill use a velcro pad at the top edge to stop them moving at speed.

Also got my full bump steer kit which should help as im running the car fairly low and allow me to dial in 3 degrees on camber on track

And got a lightened flywheel and crank pulley, the flywheel should help with response and make the engine rev a bit more freely and pull some more weight out of the vehicle as the turbo setup will add a fair bit of weight to the car.

also stuck a magnetic sump plug on aswell, it might be worth nothing but having a big magnet in the oil cant hurt.

Also had a bit of time to fit some end plates for my wing.




Now ive designed them in terms of size so that I can set the twin element wing at its maximum setting to produce downforce which is 28 degrees(12 main and 35 upper) which worked out to be 320mm from cord to cord, ive still got to fit the upper element hence the maskin tape still on there.



Now I have no intension to run them at that angle as it means the wing would produce close to 400kg of downforce at 100mph in free air which will be impossible for me to be able to balance, so Ill be able to run it at a very shallow angle and hopefully have fairly low drag

Im sure ill have the hate coming my way in terms of the size of the plates but reading aerodynamics books shows the larger the end plates are the more they magnify the power of the wing so ill be able again to run the wing at a less of an angle.

Of course if I find there is an issue with them I can shorten them, but for the moment the calculations say they will work, only thing I might do is make a brace from the bottom of the plate to the upright, but we will see how they react first before adding to it

turbotoaster

Not much of an update as I have to go and fetch some parts on saturday and im going to a concert sunday night so I dont know if ill have time to fit the kelvar doors and upper wing element.

But in the mean time my Quaife ATB diff arrived, feels like its made from the suns core its so heavy for something so small!


Next to my favourite book haha

Also mocked up all my downpipe and exhaust system and welded it all together.





The turbo is v-banded with a 2.5" outlet, that then turns into a 90* bend, straight over the gearbox, through a flexi down to another 90* into the backbox then a 90* exiting where the fog lamp would normally go(bit like an s2 gt3 box), I did think about directing it vertically down into the outer element of my diffuser(set at 100mm as a sacrificial barrier to let the inner elements work without any high pressure air interference) as the sound would bounce down the strakes cancelling the sound, but in the end decided that the risk of potentially upsetting my underfloor ground effects and the fact that a turbo should quieten the engine down a bit made me keeping it point out the back for the moment.

Ordered some m10 stainless bar to make the back box hangers and also make a bracket from the gearbox to help stop and snag when its hot.

Got some 15mm ID stainless tube aswell for making the oil drain

Finally I wanted the turbo core running vertical to help oil evacuation to hopefully not blow an oil seal and the outlet of the turbo comp housing running horizontal, that way when I sort out a chargecooler there it should look a nicer that having to twist silcone pipe to weird angles.

But when I had finished the actuator was in the wrong position and moving it around didnt get it as straight as I liked, so the bracket was bend to get everything lined up, but to make sure it didnt flex when used a little brace was added.


Also the wastegate outlet has been massively ported out so allow maximum flow to help control boost and creep, this should hopefully allow us to run really low boost, ie about 6-7psi, which means we can spend time testing doing the suspension and aero rather than worrying about the engine.

Jackstrath

Wtf :/ I'm all up for mad aero, and will openly admit I have very little knowledge on it, but that's just stupid , super overkill I think for such a small light car

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Aero certainly looks pretty crazy, though I think it's verging on looking a bit Heath Robinson. Perhaps try adding some design to the spoiler supports? Be interesting to see how well it works.

And did you consider going for a plated diff over a Quaife?

turbotoaster

Why should the size or weight of the vehicle dictate how much downforce it should produce?

F1 cars are 150kg lighter than my car yet produce 3 times the level of downforce.

The more downforce I can produce the more grip I will have, the faster the lap times(assuming the gain in cornering speed is larger than the speed reduction down the straights due to drag)

The spoiler supports arnt permanent, they are temporary thing will I work out where to position the wing for maximum efficiency, they will be replaced with double thickness properly curved pieces with weight saving cutouts once the placement is finalised

I did consider a plated version, but the judgement is that a plated one will cause more understeer into the car compared to a ATB, yes it can be adjusted through geo and setup but I wanted a very strong mechanical front end in the car to help with the low speed cornering which can then be calmed down in the high speed sections by alot of rear wing angle.

Jackstrath

You didn't just compare what your doing to a f1 car?

A f1 car also has way more than 3 times your budget

Also there hole car is a aerodynamic dream, not just some carbon wings stuck on

Also there wings are probably 3 times smaller that what your making , and still work far better than any one of those aero mods you've stuck on


And a LSD wouldn't cause under steer unless you bought the wrong LSD , the correct 1.5 would out perform a atb all day on track .....

turbotoaster

Im comparing what im doing to any type of aero dependant race car, I just f1 car as an example as you mentioned about it being light.

An f1 car has a budget 40,000 more than mine.

They also have access to CFD and wind tunnels so of course there aerodynamic effeciency will be better than what ive come up with.

Though funny enough my rear wing and upper element im fetching in the morning is moulded from a 2006 honda f1 cars wings.

Also there front wings are 1800mm wide, with up to 15 seperate elements, hence massive more downforce.

From reading about LSDs wouldnt a 1 way be better than a 1.5 so that it just acts as an open diff when your off the throttle allowing easy rotation of the car?

The car is very rear biased in terms of weight and traction so im only looking for traction under accelaration, and from what ive been reading on an ATB it works by sending power to the wheel with the most resistance(traction) which sounds like a better solution for post apex full WOT rather than just spreading the power between both wheels.

Plus its hopefully a fit and forget item rather than messing around with ramp angles etc and then potentially have to replace the clutches every so often

turbotoaster

Picked up my kevlar doors and upper element wing yesterday,

Fitting the upper element was fairly easy and I followed simons suggestion about spacing between the elements.

Currently they are both set to maxmum downforce 29* AofA which is how ill run it for the first couple of laps and see how much out it is, then turn them down to get a better balance




Next i attempted to fit my drivers door, took some fiddling to get on and its not a perfect fit but for the cost if them and the weight saving I cant complain to much, total weight saving is 17kg, I was going to get them cleaned up at a bodyshop and polished but I may aswell wait until the full car needs painting after a few seasons of abuse
Also fitted the poly window but as you can see its no where it needs to be, so im going to get some ali plate to where the old cant rial used to bolt to with velcro on it, then attach velcro the window and see if it will hold



Next will be putting my lightweight mirrors on and getting the engine running

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

You need to have the windows heat bent to shape. use your original glass as bending formers.

JonnyBravo

Cool project but the last diff I'd fit to one of those is a ATB

Sell it on and get a good plated unit in there.

Aero looks the part, I guess time will tell if it works, I believe in some race series the wing cannot extend over the most rear part of the car, I guess whatever your building it for doesn't have that rule.

turbotoaster

I think due the mounting ill actually have to bend them more than the stock ones as i need to put a 2inch bend in them.

Im guessing throwing them in your oven at work would help, how about if we made 2 pieces of wood with a curve equalling 2inch, in with each end having a thin section so we can clamp between it and the window, one for the front of the window and one for the rear of the window, clamp it to them and throw it in the oven?

Only thinking wood as im not sure what else to use, i dont think I have any ali let thats big enough

What sort of temp does it need to be done at, then pull it out and let it cool naturally?

Is there a reason for not using a ATB diff? your the second person mentioning it but not the reason why.

A few people have used them in road and race situations and made positive comments about them saying that it gives the traction benefits without the major push understeer that can happen with other types of diffs

For time attack there arnt any aero rules, pretty much if you think it up you can do it, hence im running the wing further behind the car to help get access to cleaner air, I can of course move the wing closer to the body if I ever need to with an angle grinder, a drill and 10minutes.

I will be remaking the uprights anyway once the position is finalised after a bit of aero testing

JonnyBravo

The ATB is unpredictable, certainly at speed and on anything but super smooth Tarmac, I've driven a big power vx220 with one and it was not a pleasant experience. I've also had one in my own car in the past and although I rated it at the time I found the Gripper are far more predictable unit to drive with.

Jackstrath

Atb is good for road use as it's fit and forget and you don't have to worry about servicing It or using expensive oil

LSD is far better for track, one example is if your getting keen with the curbs and clipping them , as soon as a wheel comes off the Ground or even gets light , the atb will actually stop drive and act as a open diff .... So for that split second you lose drive and that is all it can take to send you off in the wrong direction if your properly on it! LSD you don't have this issue and unless it's a 2 way under steer theory is rubbish

nevsrevs

I 2nd or 3rds with the atb, went to a gripper and the difference is night and day on track,
plus as jack says if you lift a wheel all drive is gone. not good.

turbotoaster

ok guys, ill take your comments on board about them and have a think

Front is getting there now, just need to put my canard end plates on and get the clam trimmed to let the high pressure air out of the back and top like yours. That should mostly cover it.

It looks pretty mad from the front but its all functional so I hope it all comes out as planned, due to the size the splitter that should be effective no matter what happens.



Im looking forward to seeing what it looks like on track as all time attack cars look pretty mad in the confines of a garage.



I also added to the splitter end fences today, ive made them the same height as the lower canard so that if that does flex from the airflow then it pushes down onto the end fence and into the splitter which is transfered to the chassis, no point having aero if any downforce they create never gets to the chassis


I have thought about actually making them higher than the lower canard and then shrink as the get closer to the canard(which would help more against any washover of high pressure but I could really do with someone like Simon to tell me it that is ok or that the front edge of the end plate will cause issues with clean air getting to the canard.......I could spend hours in a wind tunnel testing stuff if money was no object!!

Also added the mirrors, very easy to fit, weigh hardly anything and after checking adjustment I can see clearly behind me

turbotoaster

Did a little bit more work on my car tonight.

Fitted my throttle body adapter plate, the easiest option would have been to fit a vvc inlet manifold but ive been told the turbotechnics inlet manifold has much better flow rating than the vvc one so I thought it was worth working a bit harder to keep it, you can just see it bolted to the red inlet manifold.



Also test fitted my downpipe and exhaust again to make sure that it had all been cut and angled correctly, then marked up all the hangers for box

You can see how its going to exit like an S2 elise/exige, we will see how it copes with the noise levels, its a 2.25" box hence the reducer, which ill use for the short term until we finally turn the boost up to full where ill change to a 2.5" and decide whether to go bigger if its noisy for all tracks



Oh yeh, also got a picture of the inside of my doors........mmmm kevlar, be useful to hide behind if my girlfriend gets mad for spending all my time in the garage and tries to shoot me

turbotoaster

Fitted my other door and mirror today




reminds me something from Predator for some reason


Got my turbo feed oil line made up, was a bit of a pain as we spent ages trying to work out what fitting was in the turbo


Also I know its not scientific but for fun while I was blasting off my car with the air compressor I blew air into the canard and wind air stream and you could feel the air being attached to both sides and turning the air up and out at the same angle, was interesting to see and imagine how it will react when the car is moving

blueovalman

This car is looking mental, just a bit of advice from someone who supports time attack racer's, if possible make spares as most cars running one off part's have had bigger problems when things go wrong. Best of luck with the project

turbotoaster

Thanks blue oval man, ive got all the moulds for the aero parts and have a spare set of canards made just in case. Havent got a spare carbon splitter or diffuser though.

Little update

Started making the brace for the turbo, there is 3 threaded holes on the block that we are going to bolt a plate to, off that will be a bar connected to the turbo, this will take some of the weight off the head as the manifold, turbo and downpipe add up to a fair bit of weight.


Finished the hangers for the exhaust, we are going to hang it off the wing uprights(the horizontal section is higher than the longeron) may aswell make use of them for something else.


Made an adapter plate for the throttlebody and ported the inlet out so its a better transition from round to rectangle


Bought and mocked my chargecooler, this seemed the simpliest solution, with the shortest pipework and gives me something to mount it off(again horizontal upright) It looks close to the tyre but is actually 10cm away so should be fine, especially when im running very hard springs.



This is a quick doodle of the layout so you can see how I have done it


Being happy with my design I started working out all the bracket components and silcone pipe lengths, some of you might be thinking about having a fixed chargecooler but a 'rocking' engine but i was going to add silcone inflated joiners to cover for that.

Anyway later one in the evening I sat and thought about Djwillmas car a bit more and what he had done mounting it underneath the inlet manifold, so I went back out there to see if I would do the same thing but have it standing upright(inlet/outlet pointing up) but due to the size of it, it wouldnt work, there would be noway I could get a pipe between the outlet and the throttle body without doing a massive load of angles and pipework.

So I placed the chargecooler ontop of the inlet manifold, and it seems the perfect solution, very very short pipe runs will help with throttle response, weight and keeping heat soak from the pipes, the engine cover fits and there will be no concerns about engine movement