jacko

That sounds like one of those things that inexperienced people find out the hard way, and if they are decent folk its then them that pays for their mistake not the customer!
I get things wrong in my job from time to time, thats what people do as none of us are perfect, but when I do so, the customer never suffers as a result!

from 13 to 29 iv been painting cars i bet thats moe experiance than you have had with the oposite sex
maybe once iv had the experiance with paint you have with pleasuring your self ill be that good ill never getanything wrong

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Seems more like you have spent most of that time sniffing the products

Well one things for certain mate, you would make more money as a male hooker than me, as Im sure I wouldnt get paid 1500 quid to fuck something, and you seem to have managed it

jacko

you wouldnt get payed enough to cover your dinner

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The amount I eat, I dont think a pornstar gets paid enough for fucking to cover my dinner

You on the other hand appear not to need food or drink in the first place so less of an issue to you, as you seem to get by instead by drinking paint and then pissing it out onto customer cars instead of using a spray gun.

Hman205

Get a ******* Room you too and leave Martin's thread for the Car!!!!!!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, Ive no idea why Jacko decided to start on personal insults when the discussion was only about what constitutes professional treatment of a customer or not!

timrud

Jacko I think your lucky you only charged 1500 or whatever it was instead of 4k. Because clearly martin would then be getting an even lower proportion of his money back.

You took the piss getting it done, fobbed him off with plenty of excuses as to why it was late, promising greatness. The paint job was totally wank tang. You will only give him half the money back.

Can't you not see why some people are getting a little irate?

Here is somebody you can try for business advice https://passionford.com/forum/member...apacitor-.html

Hman205

Most likely to do with you and others trying to drag any shred of his remaining reputation through the mud

We all make mistakes its how we learn unfortunately Jacko has made his rather publicly and it has more than likely done irreparable damage to his reputation\ Business

I see myself as rather unbias as im never going to either use Martin or Jacko for any work as they are to far away and specialise in the wrong Brand for me

ShiftyOldScoob

iTrader: (3)

I would love to write a reply here, but I think all angles of this argument have been covered

All I have to add is, does anyone else on here think Chip is an arsehole???

jacko

ill explain it this way then


martins paint job was verry verry cheep and just about covered the cost origeonaly

it then had to be painted twice whitch left me way out of pocket

if i was to take it back and do the whole job again

id be out of pocket of what the origeonal work should have cost ontop of what im out now

so this way is actualy far better for me financialy

if i had charged a proper price in the first place id have done as beefy sugested and took it back stopped all work and got it redone and would have still been out of pocket but not that bad

so my best option at the moment is to do other customers work that pays properly and pay martin back as that way it dosnt upset the customers i whos cars i have in now and its the better financial option

chip what work could you get wrong that could cause you to take 3 weeks sollid unpoaid work for 2 people to put right

if it was just redo something small it would have been done without martin ever knowing it had gone wrong

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Chip only appears an arsehole to people who think they are right ALL the time. Quite simple really - Chip only enters into debates/discussion/arguments when he fully understands what he is talking about.

People on the receiving end of Chip and his fact based discussion often dont like it and therefore resort to personal insults.

I know chip well in real life and he is exactly the same on here as he is out there - ugly, bald and knowledgable

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Jacko,

It seems so simple to an outsider like me. Why cant you put your other customers on hold so you can sort Martin's car? So what, other people have to wait another 2 or 3 weeks. Why wouldnt they be understanding? You've had a problem you need to rectify. I bet 75% of customers are either on this site or look at it anyway, so know what is going on.

The only reason you shouldnt put others customers on hold is if they are the Mafia!

ShiftyOldScoob

iTrader: (3)

Dont rise to Chips bait Jacko, he's only trying to make you look bad

People are just trying to damage your buisiness but your past reputation will superceed that, just look at the sheer amount of happy customers you have..its just a shame that the one un-happy customer is quite famous in the ford scene

As soon as I get enought time off work, I will be bringing my saff to you for an engine freshen up and a touch up on the body work..I will be bringing it to you because of the work I have seen you produce and the fact you come highly recomended off more than one person (not just on this ''be all and end all'' forum I might add)

I hate the ''a man is only as good as his last job'' bullshit and I'm sure in saying this, I speak for countless others out there

jacko

i bet he knows nothing about paint or how to paint or what can go wrong

i bet if he typed a full feature on some thing then ane of the keys that was just onother key whiped the whole lot it wouldnt be his fault would it


same as i have used that paint a fare few times and didnt think the black would cause so much hastle

the reason chip seems an ass is he dont listen to reason he seems like a spoilt kid that dosnt shut up even though what he is saying has no bearing dosnt help and makes no sence in this case

Alps Pacino

He said earlier in the thread that if he did this he would go bust as he has need the money from the other jobs to pay wages, bills etc.

Catch 22 for Jacko, dont take martins back to re do and go bust cause there is no money coming in or refund the money that needs to be used for bills/wages and get a bad rep, or get a bad rep cause he has no money at the min to refund.

snOOpy86

iTrader: (1)

I think Jacko and Martin should be discussing this by PM or Phone from now on and find a resolution between them with out all the bitching from anybody else.

There certainly is no need to keep digging at Jacko and harming his reputation/business any more, like people keep saying its how you deal with problems thats important.

Jacko has already said he can not afford to re-do Martins car at the moment and needs the customers cars to keep his business afloat, No business = No money!
How will that help anybody?

Just to add i do not know either persons personally just giving my out side view on things, Jacko will im sure repay Martin as soon as he possibly can to put this all to bed.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

beat me to it

damn'd if he does, damn'd if he doesn't

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Im not making Jacko look bad at all, the person making Jacko look bad, is Jacko.

Other than a bit of jokey banter where he decided to get personal, I have stuck purely to talking about what is fair customer service or not.


I have no reason to want to damage his business, im not in competition with him.
My only interest is the fair treatment of other enthusiasts and members of this website.


I am not of that opinion, I am of the opinion that EVERYONE fucks up at some point, and what defines the good from the bad companies, is how they handle those fuck ups.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

So anyone else dropping their car off at Jacko's does so knowing that if the job goes wrong, he will just say "sorry, cant afford to put it right, go away"


Likewise, I have no previous axe to grind with either party.
My interest in this subject is purely in terms of dicussing what people think is fair treatment to receive.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I am certainly not a paint expert, although I know a little more than nothing on the subject.


If I fail to supply work to an adequete standard, I dont invoice for it, I check that the customer is happy first, then send an invoice in after.
On occasions that has meant that I have worked for nothing as I have put together stuff that hasnt been wanted, thats just part of the job though, and I take it on the chin.



It is an unfortunate situation that you are in as a result of what seemed like a safe assumption on your part, im am positive that I and many others would have made the exact same assumption in your position.


You couldnt be further from the truth.
I absolutely do listen to reason, however the reasons you are giving for taking half of a customers money and him having nothing useful to show for it which I have listened to you that you have given are just totally invalid in my honest opinion.
I stick to being honest, open and fair, if feels like im being pikcing on you, the only reason is that you are falling so far short of what I (and for that matter consumer law in this country) considers acceptable behaviour for a tradesman.

Ollie.

The only very very annoying thing about Chip to Jacko and his mates is that he is 100% right. Doesnt matter what anyone knows about painting... his customer service is shocking. It proves he knows he's in the wrong as well when he had to resort to trying to slag Chip off.


ps. Jacko. Use a spell checker for fuck sake.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, it is very clearly a case of "the truth hurts"

If Jacko had paid for somone off PF to come and plaster his house, and the plaster all fell off cause the plaster bought in some substandard materials, I bet the same people on here who are defending Jacko for telling the customer to get fucked for half the cost, would be the same people telling the plasterer that he should give Jacko all his money back or put the job right out of his own pocket.

Where as myself, as a completely objective observer with utterly no personal agenda, would be giving exactly the same advice in both cases, not being a total fucking hypocrit just cause "its my mate jacko and i must defend him at all costs" even though he's blatantly a total fucking cowboy when it comes to customer care!

Jacko supplied martin with a substandard job, so Jacko should put it right or refund in FULL, go to citizens advice and ask them and they will tell you EXACTLY the same thing!
I know this, because I spoke to a friend about this who is a citizens adviser funnily enough as I was chatting to her the other day about customer rights for a different subject and I mentioned this as an example.

Rs Craig

anyway martin do we have updates yet mate

kawi-mad

+1

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

i tend to try and stay out of these things, but coming from a service industry i had to say something.

Jacko: irrespective if the job cost Ł1500 or Ł15000, you priced the job at Ł1500. Despite there being an issue with the paint, that is of no concern to Martin. He's paid you for a job which you priced, to turn round and only offer a full refund if you get a refund is truly shocking.

if you paid for a builder to build an extension, and the walls turned out wonky and the roof sagging & leaked, would you be happy? its the same principle

I understand you are a very good painter from reading other peoples threads, but my advise to you would be to stop replying on here and speak to Martin directly - you're not doing yourself any favours by trying to defend which is morally undefendable.

-beefy-

iTrader: (6)

ok folks heres my opinion good or bad for what it counts,

now ive been mates with jacko for over 7years , and have always been a supporter of blue oval ,. also ive met chip in person on a few occaisions had a natter ect ,and followed plenty of his threads on pf over the years

but ......

i have to totally agree with what rich is say above .....thats how chip is ,



shifty , thats absoloute shite mate , im sorry but you got you head in ur ass, the only thing making the whole situation look bad is the poor paintjob ( which is the case of the whole debate ) you dont see chip posting in the gd room " dont use blueoval "

daves a nice bloke mate , if you want to know how salty his spunk is just ask him ?? ( no need to keep verbally wanking him off )

couldnt agree more with that mate , dave your obviously frustrated at the whole situation , and i know your fucked either way , , its martins option to leave this on the thread or not , as he said its the trials and tribulations that come with a project ,

but i do genuinely feel that by not having the car come back and repainting it your skills will always be tarnished,

it is in a way the same as paul hills, hes a very talented man , and in the past worked for the best , and when he fucked a few folks engines up , it wasnt a case that he blew the motor that happens

it was with the way he dealt with it , passing the blame , not willing to refund and resolve the problem, now he cant even advertise on another site without word getting here and a lynch mob going for the jugular ,

you dont want that rep dave , and rightly you shouldnt , but saying things like " financially this way is better for me " make it look like u dont give a shit at this point , and that aint the dave i know ..............

chips a hard pill to swallow , but hes speaking facts here ill give him that , if you dont have a constructive reply thats fact based , theres not point replying ,

and slagging full stop just shows folk your taking the bait and biteing ,



i 1000% agree with the above statement


hence why i think the car should be redone , i know if it was mine id expect it to be rectified or a full refund, same if it was building work , engine work , fuck even if it was as parmo i had deliverd , if it was cold or uncooked ,the fucker who made it would be getting it bk in his face !!!( mabey after a couple of bites )

i know daves in a situation where hes caught out with regards to finances but even if you had to work nights or draught in some mates on the cheap or something .

for me its the only way to put this to bed once and for all and keep you reputation is to re paint the car ,

even a refund which martin has been willing to agree to wont save your rep , it may passify martin and call off some of the dogs , but it will always be brought up as the car jacko fucked up, and more than that i recon it will chew you up knowing how fussy you are bout things like this, and its clearly visable that the criticsim your getting from the paint job is getting you ,

take a deep breath before you post mate ...................

i know with things the way they are at the mo dave you may think ive jumped ship , but thats far from it , you know whats going on with my own project and know why im not there,

i really really do hope this gets resolved to there point where both involved parties are satisfied with the outcome and that folk can let the thread get bk to where it should be,


ive i had the money to pay your rent and wages , id do it just to see the fucker come back ,


so theres my take on it



beef



( please feel free to add your opinion of whta i wrote below )

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

i have to agree with martin when he says you have probably got more chance of plaiting piss than being compensated by the paint manufacturer, as you continued the job and left it so long down the line before making a claim. i had terrible solvent pop on almost all of my panels when it was sprayed, using paint used by my painter day in and day out. but shouting achieved nothing, i guess in a job with so many variables, the manufacturer can put it down to operator error, unless you could replicate the problem exactly again for their eyes to see.

i must say it is refreshing to see problems like this as more a debate for once, as usually a job done by such a high profile user such as jacko would be defended to the death by 99% of people on the basis that they know him. but seeing as it has unfortunately occured where the customer is also rather high profile, theres no main bandwagon to hop a ride on.

and as much as i hate to say it, i concede that chip really does have several massively valid points, and is pretty much 100% spot on in his analysis of the situation

i doubt anybody will judge jacko for future work based on this mistake, as we are all human. the only thing that will ultimately do him out of business is his own questionable customer service, which is a shame, as catch 22 or not, surely there should be some sort of contingency plan for this sort of situation

coswurv

iTrader: (8)

I agree 100% with the comment above, I think the best thing here to save face etc is to take Martin up on his offer that he gave on the previous page and take the car back to do it again. If you do this work day in day out you must have stock including primers, hardeners, mixing scheme, laquer and so on, or if not why not borrow a few hundred quid for the solvents to get it done.

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

too late for that, someone else is sorting the car for Martin now as Jacko couldnt do it for 6 months

coswurv

iTrader: (8)

Oh i now see why this has all gone to shit, i did skip through and read most pages but didnt see where it said someone else was doing it must of missed that, i would of thought that one or two less important jobs would of been delayed to get this done.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Why would you hate to concede that? thats just typical of pretty much everything I post, I always just stick to facts in the first place.


Agreed a painter making a mistake with materials is just one of those things that happens, I dont know any painter who hasnt had a problem with a reaction at some point etc.

Agreed, fuck using someone who says "I fucked things up, and now you are going to pay for it"

If martin were to pursue this with advice from the CAB he would end up in the small claims court im sure, and there he would without any doubt be awarded a 100% refund plus all costs incurred.
Which would no doubt put Jacko out of business based on what he has said here about his finances, but then I dont really see that as a bad result for the community as a whole, as who wants a rogue trader like that in our numbers anyway who is going to fuck someones car up and then not refund them?

Alps Pacino

Calling Jacko a rougue trader i a bit harsh imo. He is a decent bloke in a bad situation. I'm sure if he was a big business with loads of money in the bank a refund would have been given straight away, unfortunatly Jacko just isnt in the possition to refund at the minuite which isnt out of choice.

People are making out that Jacko doesnt want to know and doesnt care which clearly isnt the case and no doubt refund if he was in a possition to do so. Unfortunatly Jackos unfortunate possition doesnt help martin in any way and he shouldnt be out of pocket as non of this is his fault.

I'm sure this will all be sorted in time which will be a good result for both of them

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Seems a perfectly fair description to me of someone who keeps half someone's money and they have nothing useful to show for it.



If I was in his situation, I would be working out a payment plan with Martin if I didnt have all the moeny at once, surely thats what any decent bloke would do?


I dont see anyone critisising him for not having enough cash to hand to sort Martin out, thats just unfortunate, its the fact that he has said time and again that all martin is getting is half what he is owed.


He seems to not want to know about half the money, at least he is doing something, but IMHO its not enough.


Agreed, it was Jacko's mistake in his choice of paint and Martin shouldnt be paying for it.


I hope that is the case, but so far it really doesnt read like Jacko is prepared to square martin up, I hope that at some point he proves to be the decent bloke people say he is and manages to step back far enough from his own personal losses to realise that its entirely down to him and his choiec of supplier and not martin that this job didnt work out correctly, and that Martin shouldnt be out of pocket for it.
The longer he delays in coming to that fair conclusion though, the more harm it does his own business image on here.

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

just a quick thought, and although essentially im not sure how much was paid for the job etc, but the half offered as the 'refund', am i to assume that is the cost of the materials to jacko? the materials he then hopes to be compensated for?

if thats the case, would this money then ALSO be handed over to martin if it was ever to appear, or would this be retained by jacko, and thus he is still paid in full for a incomplete and substandard job?

Alps Pacino

I must have missed the bit where jacko said he was only prepared to give half the money back for the job.

I think he haS probably came to this "fair conclusion" but isnt in a possition to act upon it.

Anyway i aint comenting on it anymore cause its not my business and its not my car but do feel for both of them and hopefully in the future it will be all sorted for both partys

Chip

iTrader: (3)

How it read to me was:
Jacko will refund half the money now
If he gets a refund on the paint (which he of course wont) he will give that to martin as well

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

that would make sense then, and although theres no way in hell a refund is ever going to happen, the idea was fair lol

in fairness though, i would assume the materials would cost far less than 50% of the total price to somebody in the industry getting materials at cost etc

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Just so we all know what we are talking about here... The job isn't just sanding down the body and all plastics to below the problem and then fully repainting everything, no sir! I have had all the glass bonded in (new screen ), I have fitted brand new side mouldings and all the side stripes and decals.



This for me is a right royal pain in the arse!

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

he could go small claims court but he would get 1.50 for the next x mount years ,thats how they work ,i took customer to court for 3grand mite get it back in 25years defo wouldnt get the full amount in one payment ,

Tommen

Hmm.. Maybe the car wants to be blue?

just kidding!

I had to paint my car with the rear quarter windows in place.. I managed to crack one of them when I tried to take them out

The biggest concern is to wreck the moulding around the rear quarter windows!
Why dont anyone make repro of those mouldings??

I would deffo paint the car with te rear windows in place this time..