Spiky

iTrader: (1)

ok, was just wondering the calipers will fit mine, so when you sell them

has he? sweet, will go look, was 2 good sessions playing with him

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Like Mother, like son!

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

agreed

cng1

You'll like the wilwood 285 kit but you will need a front/rear bias setup on your car.

On the diff front depending on your chassis you may be able to go up to the 7.5" diff, later chassis are sized for it and have a spacer that you can fit to take the 7" setup. In the westie though the 7" is more than man enough for the job.

WRT the turbo, I've worked my way through the combinations from tweaked T3 upwards. On a westie the sweetest combination is the GT28RS, the GT2871 gives you more grunt but the extra little bit of lag means takes the edge off the enjoyment. Keep the turbine housing to a .63 max and it's OK, the .82 would be grim though.

Do yourself a favour though and get yourself a wideband and a proper ECU on there, your car was pretty grim to follow with all the flames, soot and unburned fuel coming out of there!

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

...........Says the man who controls his boost by creating boost leaks and runs 8 x 440cc injectors almost to the max? (enough fuel for what? 600+ horses) Come on Chris!!!

Lee's car has both a very good ECU and wideband already and its also mapped by Stu at MSD so just about the best combo you can get IMO. Whats wrong with some flames on the overun?

On the diff front its about having a decent one, not one thats man enough for the job.

cng1

The jubilee-clip boost-limit worked very nicely for the day thank you very much. With the benefit of a few minutes with the laptop to adjust the map we're back on a full 3D mapped setup, rather than the "better this than drive all the way back home again" setup

FWIW The 8 injectors top out at 80% duration, above 90% you tend not to flow any more anyway as all you're doing is hold them open during the open-close cycle, where they're already part open anyway. In terms of power I'll stake that at an honest 400bhp, to put that in context the "big name" remap on a P8/pectel setup that I used to run was officially rated at 330bhp, in the real world I called that 250bhp. Given those metric feel free to convert into whatever units you like.

Flames on overun means you're running too rich, it also means that you're destroying the silencer wadding. After following him I had to clean the unburnt fuel and soot off my windscreen! Perhaps it's the new exhaust causing it to run richer than it did but it could do with a tweak. If you had an aftermarket ECU on there then it's the work of minutes to correct, with the L8 it's a PITA.

Whilst the 7" LSD isn't perfect changing it for something "better" would be some way down my list of priorities, there's plenty of other things to more productively spend money on first.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

All tuned Cossies are mapped for a greater or lesser degree of fuel on the over-run, it helps cool the pistons. If you remove this, you run the risk of melt down - especially on track where EGTs of 900°C are regularly seen due to sustained WOT....

cng1

Not all tuned cossies do it and it's not really necessary, nor is it particularly beneficial as the cooling effects of the fuel are minimal and the detrimental effects to turbos and silencers of fuel igniting there are substantial.

To point out the glaringly obvious flaw in your argument you set up your engine so that it can run at sustained WOT, if your piston cooling (by virtue of blowthrough on cam overlap and your under-piston oil jets) is good enough for WOT then when it's off throttle and generating no heat then it's going to be just fine. To take your suggestion to the point of the ridiculous you would have to rate every engine for a maximum of X seconds of WOT before you'd have to enforce Y seconds of "cooling overrun".

FYI peak EGT happens at around a stoichometric mixture (ie a nice gentle cruise), under WOT your EGTs are much lower. There's not much good information on EGT tuning on the net but if you want to borrow some decent books on the subject give me a shout.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Might I suggest you speak to some people that map these engines for track / race use for a living . I'm not saying it is the same for every engine, but you will find that from years of experience, the Cosworth engine benefits from this. In fact for several years (while it was the "fad"), I made a nice little earner out of the flamer kits that relied on the fact that aftermarket chips were programmed this way .

Given your last statement, please explain why my EGTs are 700°C on a light cruise (at almost stoich), but almost 900°C at sustained WOT at mid 11s ? Might I also suggest you do a bit of real world testing, rather than guessing .

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Mike, ZERO fuel on overun is also good for cooling, ie an actual fuel cut, as few things generate less heat than not burning anything and just blowing cool air through the engine.

Running lean is the worst for heat though, it needs to be either rich or nothing at all, and nothing at all can cause problems when you get back on the throttle with a lean spot as it wets the manifold again.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I agree with Mike, all the engines I map end up running hotter while on WOT than on cruise, if your exhaust manifold is glowing orange on WOT its not unusual but if you are doing it on cruise I would say you have a problem.

600-700 on cruise is easily achieved IMHO, but is very difficult to maintain on WOT

Have you ever actually had an EGT gauge on a car yourself, as I personalyl think that probably you are reading too much into theory and have no real world experience of it.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I don't know any track Cossie engines (other than perhaps this poster ), who don't have fuel on the over-run....

cng1

EGT is substantially effected by ignition timing so you can't look at the AFR in isolation. It may be that in your case it's timing that is the root cause of that.

On cruise you're trying to burn everything in the chamber as efficiently as possible, at WOT you don't care about efficiency so are prepared to let it burn later in the cycle and indeed still be burning as the ports open and the burning gas rushes out of the exhaust. When that's the case the EGT results can mislead you as the probe is seeing the full fury of the flame front rather than just the temperature of the resultant gas.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

We are all aware of this, and its the reason why Mike runs relatively low CR in order to allow him to dial in a lot of timing.

You really are teaching your grandma to suck eggs here mate!


Of course, its just a shame you cant put two and two together there and realise that if when you are running WOT you are putting unburnt fuel into the exhaust that when you then back off it will flame as it comes out of the exhuast and meets oxygen, its not just a result of the current fuelling but of the fuelling you were running just before you backed off.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Can you perhaps just let us know a little about yourself.

Do you map your own car, or was it mapped by someone else?
My answer: I do

Is that the only car you have mapped or have you mapped many cars, if so where they turbo cars or N/A cars?
My answer: Many cars, mostly turbo but a few N/A ones as well, before I had mapping facilities I was tuning cars on carb and dizzy setups

Do you monitor EGT and AFR on your car?
My answer: I do on some cars I map but not all, I always monitor AFR just not always EGT


would just help us all a little to know a little bit about your background when reading your commments

Have filled my own answers in just so you can learn a bit about us too

CraigoScott

iTrader: (1)

WOT, EGT, AFR

can I add an abbreviation in, WTF

anyone care to explain what the above mean?

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

wide open throttle, exhaust gas temp, air fuel ratio

CraigoScott

iTrader: (1)

ahh spank you very much

Chip

iTrader: (3)

cng1, by the way, allowing a boost leak to persist deliberately is an horrific bodge IMHO, you will be pushing the turbo WAY WAY WAY over to the righthand side of the compressor map, which will result in overspooling of the turbo and decreased volumetric efficiency of the engine itself due to pumping losses when working the turbo that hard, its no wonder Lee kicked your arse round track with that sort of bodge on your car

cng1

Yep. Given the choice of "pack up and go home" or make a calculated change to my driving approach and a safety mod in case I got the red mist the choice was easy.
The change to driving approach was to never use more than about 60% throttle or 0.5bar boost, the safety mod was to loosen a jubilee on one of the boost hoses such that if I used too much boost (more than about 1 bar) it would allow a controlled amount to vent and prevent the problem that I was suffering from. Better to incur a small amount of risk on the turbo than a large risk on the whole engine.

As it happened the boost-limit mod was used precisely once during the day - on the last lap of the day as the chequered flag came out. I knew what the limits were and by working with the car I had no problems. To me that sounds like a substantial success. Now I could have left everything alone and avoided the snide comments and just driven it like it was but I'd personally rather have a backup planned in, wouldn't you?

Err. On the one lap we did in tandem he pulled away from me, but not terribly quickly. Ignoring my (lack of) driving ability. He was running full boost, I was limiting myself to 0.5 bar. He was running decent sticky tyres, I was running on my spare rims with skinny budget tyres for maximum slidey fun. He runs an aeroscreen, whilst I run a full screen - on a seven style car that can give a 150bhp car the advantage over a 250bhp car so for lee not to have been literally streaking away from me was a bit of a shock.

cng1

Oh just out of interest, this is my car at the ring (not me driving) with a 20st passenger back when it was back in what I refer to as the "250bhp" state of tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_InrLEU4cyo

Back then it only had a tiny IC rather than the big-arsed Pace chargecooler and water injection setup that it has now. The result being that on that lap the inlet temps hit 60C and the ecu was limiting the fun.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you had a BHP for every excuse you would be the quickest thing out there

Lee's tyres were cheaper than your yokohamas by the way



Why did you have to limit boost by the way?

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

Bad mapping

cng1

200 inc vat for a set of four fitted? I think not.

Replumbed wastegate was allowing boost over and above the area I've mapped. A few minutes with a laptop would have had the extra setup done but having not taken a laptop with me my options were limited.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

About that mate yes!


You should have said, I had a mapping laptop with the emarald software on it with me, and a set of detcans and a wideband, you could have borrowed it.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I didn't realise that this was John Felstead's old Westy . I have been a passenger in it at the Ring before with John driving . This is us at the Ring in May 2001:

cng1

If you can tell me where sells and fits a set of R888s for 200-ish quid (2*225/50R15 and 2*205/50R15) then I'll be stockpiling a few sets, last time I looked they were more like twice that price.

Pah. Next time I'll get a tannoy announcement put out - "Could anyone with a laptop and Emerald K3 software please report to..." Widebands I don't need though, I've got plenty already ta

cng1

Not much of Johns car left these days. Diff, box, radiator, the scabby old bonnet and the seats are about all that's left. Oh and the right front aluminium upright, the bootlid and one of the fuel pumps.

I guess you now have a better idea of what the car can do when it's running properly, albeit now it has 50% more get up and go than it did back then. These days even with me driving very little catches me on the track unless I'm letting them through

polly_x

iTrader: (2)

Right well, lets get this going again. Today saw the ordering of:

1. New bigger 285mm Front Discs
2. New bigger 253mm Rear Discs
3. New 4 pot Lightweight Calipers all round
4. New Lightweight Seats
5. New Steering Rack, Track Rod Ends and Rack Mounts
6. New Boost Controller
7. Aquamist Water Injection Kit
8. New Lightweight Rear Shocks
9. New Pads all round
10. New Braided brake lines all round
11. Plumber in fire extinguisher system
12. New Handbrake cables
13. New lightweight Alloy Front Hubs and Wheel Bearings

Here is a familiar sight! BRUM back in my garage for some upgrades!




Here is what is left of the rear brakes after Bedford



Both mine and his go in for custom full cages in 2 weeks too.

Will let Lee do the talking from now on!

Carl160180

I've just sat here for the last 2 hours or so and read through the full thread, gotta say hat's off to everyone involved especially Stu, Foxy and the project boss LOL Top work fella's Will be keeping my eye on this thread for more updates and hopefully see it blasting round the track at some of the shows this summer

Keep up the good work lad's

Carl

wide ka

looks awesome, i presume your going for a full cage now?

SteveH

Might that mean you two are coming to the ring in May?

Maria.

I bet Zoe is pleased

Sticky.

iTrader: (4)

I thought this was ment to be a cheap track toy Lee

Looking good my friend, glad to see your enjoying it

Ryan

your bloody terrible lee.

awesome though.

stu is a bad influence.

CraigoScott

iTrader: (1)

sounds like its going to be even more impressive!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

For the performance involved, it is

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

NOW HURRY UP AND FIT IT ALL MONKEY NUTS

Chop fucking chop!!!!

I LOVE MY BATHTUB!!!

Totally and utterly LOVE it!!!!!

Just soooooooo much fun and soooo involving and thrilling to drive. It can be a little scary as well though but thats cool too!

alistairolsen

Whatsize brakes were on it before,with what pads, and what problems were found if you dont mind me asking?

Im trying to pick a spec for mine just now...

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

The front had 260mm AP 4pots. With seperate bells and vented rotors. Think Ferrodo DS3000 pads?

They are for sale if you are interested. Chip, Stu and Rainbird all thought they were fine and upto the job when they drove it at Bedford.

I thought they were poo

I like to REALLY stand on the brakes corner after corner. Basically in my opinion when it comes to braking.... if you are not locking the wheels then you are not trying hard enough

Stu has 10 pence pieces for brakes!! NON vented front discs to save weight!!! about 100mm I think!