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392 hp with a gt28 is abit optimistic at 1.6 bar isn't it ?
I thought they were a 400 hp turbo absolutely flat out
Not really no. A gt25 hybrid can get 380bhp. Sabre have been getting 430bhp from gt28's for years. A few cars have made similar figs on this roller to others. The std cars on the day were making std figures
Heres sabres league. 6 x gt28's over 400 and 1 making 389bhp at 19 psi. The boost beside the figs is peak and hold so some are making the figs at 20-21 psi. So is my 392 at 23psi isnt that optimistic i dont think
Heres a few gt28 graphs so can see there running 23psi(1.6bar)
Not that I'm doubting your cars power and we all know the dyno debate, but your car is holding 27.8psi for over 500rpm and that's where it's making peak power? Could you improve your boost control? Or is it a weak actuator
Ps please don't think I'm having a dig just interested in zetec power outputs
Not that I'm doubting your cars power and we all know the dyno debate, but your car is holding 27.8psi for over 500rpm and that's where it's making peak power? Could you improve your boost control? Or is it a weak actuator
Ps please don't think I'm having a dig just interested in zetec power outputs
Thats peak torque mate not power. Which is normal. Boost control is fine mate. Its normal to have a boost spike and tail off. Peak power is at 5-5.5k which is 23 psi
No that's you peak hp, unless your torque is higher than your hp? And I would agree with a few psi drop but 6 is a bit much, and the way the power tails off with your boost drop I would be looking at keeping the boost spike a little less.
No that's you peak hp, unless your torque is higher than your hp? And I would agree with a few psi drop but 6 is a bit much, and the way the power tails off with your boost drop I would be looking at keeping the boost spike a little less.
Ill educate you mate
The power axis is on the left. The torque on the right. The power is measured at wheels on the graph which is 343. The torque is 376. 1.87 bar is 27psi. 1.6X bar is 23-24 psi.
As i said its normal for a boost spike. Its the boost spike that gives the torque peak. Without it the torque graph would be more linear. Your graph you have put you peak at 1.4bar(20psi) and tails to 1.3bar(18psi). Thats a 2psi pressure drop. Put it up to 26psi peak and see how much it tails of to. Id say it would be similar to mine. the more boost you try to get top end the more boost spike youll have trying to control it. Also your afr is a bit lean at max rpm. Id be happier with 11-5-11.7 at max rpm imo
the boost tailing off isnt a actuator/spring issue,its the turbo,its a baby gt2860rs.the turbo is probably running flat out so its not as efficient at that rpm as a bigger turbo would be. but by going bigger id lose the punchiness and as its a daily driver car i dont want a car that takes an age to come on boost just to gain a few extra bhp top end. the car is awesome on the road. quick spool,good power,its on kwv3's and has ap 6pots so it stops and handles decent aswell. perfect road car imo
It is quite usual for boost to drop as rpm increases. Sometimes you can increase the wastegate solenoid duty to accommodate for this other times it is because the turbo is unable to provide the volume of air to accommodate the required boost pressure at higher rpm. For me personally I dislike the common boost spike and try to minimise the spike while increasing boost duty with rpm to achieve a flatter torque curve, however lots of people like the exact opposite!
Also, thats a really nice curve. The torque doesn't drop off fast enough for the power to really tail off before the limiter. Any more boost and I suspect all you would gain (with that turbo) would be a larger midrange torque figure which tailed off more rapidly. You have a perfect road spec car imo. Your AFR is also really rock solid.
@nevsrevs - Your AFR is not right. You can see that where you make peek boost your AFR hasn't settled to target, a nice smooth AFR is a sign of a decent tune... or a wrong lambda gauge! I wouldn't say you are running particularly lean as you come on boost however the afr could be a lot smoother. An AFR or 12:1 is fine for that boost, although I might be tempted to go a little richer towards the rev limit.
It is quite usual for boost to drop as rpm increases. Sometimes you can increase the wastegate solenoid duty to accommodate for this other times it is because the turbo is unable to provide the volume of air to accommodate the required boost pressure at higher rpm. For me personally I dislike the common boost spike and try to minimise the spike while increasing boost duty with rpm to achieve a flatter torque curve, however lots of people like the exact opposite!
Also, thats a really nice curve. The torque doesn't drop off fast enough for the power to really tail off before the limiter. Any more boost and I suspect all you would gain (with that turbo) would be a larger midrange torque figure which tailed off more rapidly. You have a perfect road spec car imo. Your AFR is also really rock solid.
@nevsrevs - Your AFR is not right. You can see that where you make peek boost your AFR hasn't settled to target, a nice smooth AFR is a sign of a decent tune... or a wrong lambda gauge! I wouldn't say you are running particularly lean as you come on boost however the afr could be a lot smoother. An AFR or 12:1 is fine for that boost, although I might be tempted to go a little richer towards the rev limit.
Cool graphs, thanks for sharing!
cheers mate. someone who knows what there talking about
the turbo is flat out. if i ran it lower boost youd see a flatter boost graph but as you said trying to run this baby turbo flatout needs some compromise. you certainly dont notice the bhp dropoff at higher rpm and pulls right to the limiter which it loves hitting
That's wat was making my head spin that your hp is whp and fly tq that makes sense now. Cheers.
My dyno plot was a old one, it's a different map now. Was only running spring pressure for that run.
Who mapped the car jambo as above afr is smooth as silk
Rob this is a newer plot with the boost raised slightly 1.6bar and a smaller exh housing now running more fuel but have no afr plot unfortunately as I would of liked you to look at it.
Bare in mind this is track only driven at wot a lot.
That's wat was making my head spin that your hp is whp and fly tq that makes sense now. Cheers.
My dyno plot was a old one, it's a different map now. Was only running spring pressure for that run.
Who mapped the car jambo as above afr is smooth as silk
i take it your on standalone?
im running a demonperformance stg4 map loaded onto the std ecu,so fairly good results and afrs for an off the shelf map.
Yea I'm running omex, but trying to find someone that can map the car and you coming away feeling happy is hard,
Think you would be waisting money on getting yours mapped from looking at other frs graphs
Rob this is a newer plot with the boost raised slightly 1.6bar and a smaller exh housing now running more fuel but have no afr plot unfortunately as I would of liked you to look at it.
Bare in mind this is track only driven at wot a lot.
For a track car id personally be wanting an afr high 10's to keep things cool. Its not ideal for max power but its just personal preference id like that safety margin on track
Originally Posted by nevsrevs
Yea I'm running omex, but trying to find someone that can map the car and you coming away feeling happy is hard,
Think you would be waisting money on getting yours mapped from looking at other frs graphs
Id thought about taking it to sabre for live map as the driveability would be much better but distance was an issue as there in bristol and im up in scotland. Should try sabre for your mapping as they defo know there stuff and have mapped omex before
Rob this is a newer plot with the boost raised slightly 1.6bar and a smaller exh housing now running more fuel but have no afr plot unfortunately as I would of liked you to look at it.
Bare in mind this is track only driven at wot a lot.
Making some decent power there mate. I cant really make any other comments without boost and/or AFR tho, and I can't see the correction factors. All that I can say is that its in shootout mode 4F (correct), the torque and bhp curves cross as approx 5252rpm (correct).
Normally if graph smoothing is tuned on (not sure that it is) small undulations in the torque can indicate some level of detonation however I doubt that is the case here as graph visible detonation generally gives more prominent spikes.
For track only I would definitely be running rich at high rpm/load. Down a long straight for example, where you maintain a high load for a long period of time (think Silverstone or Brands GP straights) the combustion chamber can heat up enough that hot spots appear (exhaust valve edge, or sharp edges in chamber) which may lead to pre-ignition or detonation. Some ecu's even allow you to richen the mixture after a prolonged (longer than a few seconds) period of high load.
Shouldn't be rich any where in the map where there isn't the benefit of added cooling. I mapped a cosworth recently which went so rich under full load that the lambda kit couldn't display the afr, like under 9.5:1.... now the oil in that smelt funky!
12-09-2015, 09:57 PM
Rolling road today
