Luffers

was trying to find a bit out about insurance for the ring.

as in do you have to have it or are you covered by your insurer if you have mainland euope cover.

the germans see the ring as a normal toll road so just wondered.

JjCoDeX75

Do a search on this chap - this has been covered a lot before.

In a nutshell - you aint covered. Period.

JJ

topaz

iTrader: (1)

please hold the line... chip will be along shortly...

Rich_w

Not in every case, but almost certainly in 95% of UK ring goers. Which of course goes down the fact you are commiting a offence under German law. Fine until you put a German stockbroker biker into a vegatative state and as below go bankrupt and end up in Prison.

Bear in mind also that if you are involved in an accident where you are hit up the arse. If you are in the left of the track YOU are liable. If you are involved in an accident and try to leg it just consider how many amateur photographers go there every day!

Some wil now say "I dont go to set lap times" but if you have a mechanicalor come off avoiding/sliding on someone elses accident you may still need that insurance.

JjCoDeX75

I agree that there are certain very very very rare exceptions to the "you aint insured" statement, though these are getting fewer and fewer.

To top it all, due to the number of unsuccessful claims against the insurance companies, the Nurburgring officials I here will now simply take a credit card swipe immediately for any damage incurred to the ring, and let you fight your insurer (unsuccessfully) for the costs.

Anybody who goes to the ring, and pushes 10/10ths is taking a silly risk imho. If you want to do that, then go on one of the proper organised open pit lane days.

JJ

Ryan

just a question as i dont know the answer, do you need to inform the insurers that you driving outside the uk? will this affect you policy?

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Yes and no, shouldn't do. Certainly in my experience.

Si

Ryan

cool, im sure it wont affect anything on my policy anway, but i'll tell them just incase.

AlexF

If they issue you a greencard then how can you not be insured....

Writting illegal things in an insurance contract doesnt not change german law....

I ask tony from greenlight this poitn many many times and not once have I had the question answered!!!

JjCoDeX75

Hi matey

Certainly it was the case that the 3rd party claims used to get covered by the insurers, though sadly a couple of cases have been fought all the way up to the ombudsman - where the insurers won. (I will see if I can find the case).

As such, this effectively gives them case law on the subject.

They are still basing their position on the fact that the Nurburgring is a race track. Whilst it is also a road, it is a matter of interpretation. And whilst I like you would prefer to think of it as a road (which it also is), the insurers think of it as a track. The kicker is that the ombudsman agrees with the insurers. That is basically the issue.

My advice is as follows;

1. Avoid any insurer that specifically excludes the nurburgring by name (which most do now sadly) - it may be to no avail, but at least you have an argument (which you will almost certainly lose!)

2. Drive the ring like you are not insured, and dont take any unnecessary risks. Whilst accidents still happen, most are caused by a stopwatch!

HTH

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I crashed on the ring, my insurers paid out for the car and for the circuit, normal insurance with a bog standard underwriter.

Lots of insurers will try and claim you arent covered on the ring, but german law states differently it would appear, you certainly will have NO problem at all in terms of damage done to the ring from what the officials there told me, but its only the third party liability that the law enforces so strongly, the comprehensive element of any insurance policy seems to be much more up for debate.

JjCoDeX75

That was several years ago, matey and I think the insurers position has strengthened since then - to the point where the ring no longer accept your insurance details, they simply take the money instead!

JJ

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes that was april 2006, so its possible things have changed since.

Rick

What if you don't have the money - not many people have.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

ve haff vays of making you pay

Garage19

In these days of the european union most insurance companies are obliged to give you cover in europe.

The ring is classed as german highway so an insurance company would have a tough time defending their position of not paying out in court.

However my insurance company strictly say no racing or time trialling so if they can get any proof that you are timing your laps (eg times posted on the net) they may be within their rights not to pay out.

JjCoDeX75

If your insurer states that the Nordschliefe is excluded, then you would not be covered for any of the claim - 3rd party or otherwise.

If it doesnt, then you MAY be able to run the risk of taking it to the ombudsman. The insurance companies do have ways of resolving this as well though - they can simply refuse you insurance, then you are fucked for the rest of your life in insurance quotes!

JJ

Garage19

I still think that if it came to court they would struggle to defend their case for not paying even if they have said no ring. At the end of the day the germans have classed it as a higway and maintain it as such. Under european law i expect that makes it just as valid a piece of highway as the M25.

It would be like saying we will insure you for all of the public highway except the A12. If they did that there would be all sorts of legal implications as you must have minimum third party insurance for driving on the highway. I don't think the law states you can just get away with insurance for some bits of it.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

doug, thats my understanding too, if they issue that green card, they except legal responsibility for any 3rd party claim you make on the roads of europe.

Rich_w

Most insurance companies dont bother with Green cards anymore. And to be honest, why should ANY insurance company be forced to cover you. Simple answer is they wont. They'll simply refuse to cover you.

Tony from Greenlight is not alone in not nailing down whether you are or not covered. Look at this way. Phone your ins co and say am i covered on a section of road in germany with the highest accident per km rate in Europe?


Agree with all that. The case you are thinking of Ive posted at Northloop. It was a Porsche 968 FC claim btw not a 3rd party incident. He took it the Ombudsman who basically said Its a racetrack (which is fair enough as its been a racetrack since it was built!)

AlexF

True - but then so are many many roads in france and the UK where acient defunt races where held....

Alex

Rich_w

Obviously your thinking of Mulsanne at Le Mans or Eau rouge in Spa. They were roads first though. Then used for racing. Even the IOM course is a road first.

I can only envisage it getting harder for UK people to go though. For reference the German Insurance is different. They insure the car not the driver and you have NO chance of insuring a non German registered car with a German insurer.