djmca

Hi All,

Im currently running a 2 litre silvertop on carbs but am thinking of changing to Efi, i have looked at ITBs but obviously the costs are collosal over 2k for ITBs and management etc. I was looking at other cheaper options to run with standalone management which would give similar performance. Thinking of Link Atom ECU.

Has anyone succesfully used a plenum such as the Rover unit or custom? I know the standard HO inlet is good but i dont like how it looks.

Thanks

Leevan

what about bike throttle bodies? , will fit the manifold you have, if the one with silicone boots? get a second hand me221 ecu and off you go.

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

plenty of people run bike throttle bodies on zetecs, they can be had very cheap and then just choose your ecu and tuner and you'll be away. they usually couple the bike bodies to the st170 inlet manifold and engine, but you should buy one of these cheapish ebay jobs if you want it to fit the silvertop. you could probably do the whole setup for under £1k including manifold, bodies, ecu and loom if you're happy to do it yourself.

djmca

Im trying to stay away from bike bits and silicone hoses as thats whats currently pi**ing me off. I have bike carbs fitted and just cannot get them right, the more i read the more it seems to be the common theme that they will never be right.

Looks like its Webers or ITBs and ECU

Leevan

webers are old tech now mate, they will be no more reliable than the bike carbs.
I had a set of twin 40s in a pinto and god was it a pain to start in winter. jenvey do some twin side draught throttle bodies that aint bad money. around the 500£ mark

djmca

Yeah i can get a set of ITBs for around that but by the time you add a fuel tank with swirl pot, high pressure pump, fuel regulator, manifold and ECU your near the 2k mark. Im just a bit pi**ed that id have to spend that just to get the car running right and not even gain anything performance wise

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Can't you just fit a standard efi setup for that engine ? Must be available dirt cheap from scrap yards

Leevan

sounds like a good plan

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Going from carbs to injection and throttle bodies WILL gain you performance. The headline power figure may not be much different, but I guarantee the car will produce better grunt at more points in the rev range, drive better and use less fuel. Dave Walker of Emerald did a great article in a mag (either CCC or PPC) years ago, where he did some comparisons between carbs and throttle bodies. If you read that, you would throw your carbs in a skip in a heartbeat. They were dropped from cars in the 1980s for very good reason - they're shit

Another option is to fit a standard manifold - either the alloy 130PS one, or one from a 115PS Escort/2.0 Focus (I think they're the best ones - and then run it on aftermarket management. It will still drive better, and you can always add ITBs later. It spreads the cost a bit that way.

djmca

Thanks all for input, my ideal solution is ITBs and ECU however im being advised that they aren't always perfect. Just trying to find the balance of cost, driveability and without compromising on performance. Im told that even running the HO inlet with aftermarket ecu would be a backwards step from the carbs

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

You may find these interesting. I found the articles and took pictures. Hopefully they're readable!

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii5hMo] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii5h32] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii5geU] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2RwK] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2QJY] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii5dVA] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2P7K] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2N1G] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2M4S] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

[ame=https://flic.kr/p/2ii2Lrp] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/143473428@N02/, on Flickr

djmca

Right, have made a big boy decision and the carbs/Nodiz are being sold!!

Going for ITBs. Anyone any thoughts on Omex 600 ECU as an alternative to the Link Atom?

Leevan

good choice. 10 man points to you sir.

djmca

Just need to sell a Kidney first lol

big_wasa

One ECU isn't that much different in the way it works to another. It's the software that a mapper will be used to using. Unless your mapping it your self ? Find out what the person mapping it likes and dislikes.

The omex 600 is basic and a bit long in the tooth but has s good solid reliable reputation.

djmca

I was just looking at the 'plug and play' packages available from Burton etc. They all seem to use the Omex 600 with base map so its ready to go

Its either that or buy a mix and match set of ITBs and ECU such as Link Atom, then try to make a loom and wire it up myself. Maybe im too wary but the plug and play package is safe and proven surely?

I will check with the mapper and see what they can do

Leevan

Look at the me221 stuff, we run it on ,mazdas and its simple plug and play, comes with a base map pre installed to your mods to get you up and running.

djmca

Im in Northern Ireland and its very hard to get anyone to look at the ME stuff, more big names like Omex, Emerald, Link or DTA.

stevieturbo

Emissions and economy lol.

Well set up carbs can work very well. You just need someone competent to do that.

but when EFI is so easy and cheap these days, it doesnt really make sense in most cases to use carbs.

rsmadgt3071

if i was in your shoes right now.. i would go omex and turbo instead.. bike carbs are shit. had them..been there and done that..you wont get them running perfect for a long time.. itbs are better.. but even them.. they wont run perfect all the time.. will need a tune now and again ..i would go turbo. you will never look back !

djmca

The thought had crossed my mind however i really dont want to start upgrading pistons, changing compression ratios and reducing reliabilty

stevieturbo

Do it right, and sensibly...and none of those things are an issue

davidfox280585

dta s40 ecu would be my choice over an omex

stevieturbo

I'd say S60, purely as it's better featured with logging.

But yes, the DTA will be far easier to use than the Omex.

djmca

Yes, have done a bit more research and the Omex would appear to be old hat now. Think its down to DTA or Link, the tuner can do either but favours DTA as he stocks them.

davidfox280585

I agree if your playing yourself the logging is awesome, I have a s60 on my rs turbo purely for logging and coil on plug but a s40 for my duratec escort as I don't particurly need the logging as once its mapped nothing will ever change and I can live read the data.

op,
give sean at stmotorsport a call he can supply a loom and ecu to your spec

djmca

Link Atom or DTA S40 is all i would need, as long as it does the job il not be touching it after its mapped properly!

stevieturbo

Many things can change and happen. At any time

stevieturbo

It's a simple setup, the DTA will be perfectly fine.

Never used Omex, but glanced at the software the odd time....looks terrible.

Likewise Link....for an ecu that's been around for so long, it's shocking at how bad the software is. Much older versions used to be far better ! I stopped using their ecu's because of it. Just so badly laid out and poor terminology etc.
Some of the ecu's are reasonably decent though

davidfox280585

it can but if you know what to look for then no issues, ive live mapped my rs turbo myself on the road and pretty sure a n/a duratec mk2 escort on bodies cant be that complicated to need to datalog to understand what is happening.
if you cant understand whats happening engine/ecu wise you shouldn't be mapping or playing with it anyway

stevieturbo

If you understood anything about tuning and diagnostics...you'd understand why logging matters

Of course it isnt essential, but it is absolutely worth having.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

I totally understand what your saying mate but this is only an n/a engine,i think the cost of an all singing all danceing ecu will feel abit expensive and wasted on a 150-200 hp na 2 litre

stevieturbo

We're only talking about a budget DTA S60....not anything all singing and dancing. Just a very good easy to use budget ecu

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

I was thinking £3500 like syvecs s8 am I miles off

stevieturbo

Quite a few yes lol. Like about 20% of that number lol