Moon Dust

I'm thinking of getting a 1990s Ford, either Mk5 Escort or Mk2 Mondeo, nothing particularly flash/sporty, I just like the styling of that era.
But being in London that era of cars is soon to be highly taxed by the new ULEZ emssions zone.

Anyone know if there's a Euro4 (or newer) petrol engine that would be a particularly good/easy/cheap replacement for either of those cars?

(I'm just trying to see if it's even a viable idea at this stage)

studabear

I'm sure this has been mentioned on here before, it was said that even with a newer engine a older car wouldn't get around the charges.

focusv8

The ULEZ will just go off the registration and whatever engine was in from new.
Except vehicles over 40 years old with Historic Tax class which are exempt.

BIG LEE

Also thing to think about is insurance when you start changen engines etc.. but as for tax etc wouldnt change anything as before 2001 the tax price is fixed

DAN@ADRIAN FLUX

Hi.
If you needed any help with insurance at all for any conversion you're thinking about then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.

Moon Dust

Would updating the V5 via DVLA after conversion not be enough to take it off the ULEZ list? The sceme is about emmissions, afterall, not age of vehicle.

Good point about the insurance. Would changing the engine make 20+ year old car exempt from (cheaper) classic car insurance?

Moon Dust

Have just spoken to Transport for London (TfL) about this (they run ULEZ).

They said once the engine swap is registered at DVLA, you send a form to TfL to say your vehicle is exempt. They check it against DVLA and cross the car off their list. It takes up to 10 days to process.

So, been looking at engine possibilities - are some of the Focus ST170 engines Euro4?
Wondering coz Euro4 wasn't a standard until 2005?

focusv8

The standards are announced well in advance of the mandatory date.
Manufacturers don't leave it till the last minuite, so It's quite likely most if not all ST170 are Euro 4 compliant.

Find a reg for an early ST170 and put it in this checker, it'll tell you if it complies;

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/che...6?intcmp=35896

stevieturbo

I think you're being hopeful about simply swapping an engine to make it compliant. The chances of that going smoothly and easily are very very slim, because unless you swap it 100% identical in every way from the original vehicle.....it simply will not be Euro4 compliant.
Manufacturers spend millions getting their stuff approved, and for each individual vehicle model.

And when you're going in a direction that may reduce tax etc......I'd say all parties involved will be fussy as fuck about it requiring various documentation that may be difficult to acquire.

Moon Dust

I asked TfL about this and they only care about the classification of the engine, ie is it Euro 4 or not. They don't test for emissions.

DVLA only require a receipt for the engine or confirmation from the garage that the engine was swapped. They don't require a test for emissions.
https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-de...idence-to-give

MOTs from what I can gather test for emissions against the oldest componant of the two, ie a 2005 engine in a 1995 car will be checked that it passes the emissions test of a 1995 engine.

Or have I missed something?

I understand an engine swap might not be straightforward. That's why I'm asking here.
Has anyone put or seen a Euro 4 or 5 engine in a 90s car (not necessarily for ULEZ reasons) so I can see what's involved?

cossynut2

Swapping engines on old Fords used to be fairly straight forward, the engine mounts and bell housing bolt holes would be the same but I am not sure how you would go trying to fit a much more modern engine. It could involve having to make new engine mounts, sump modifications to clear cross members , mountings for the catalytic converter and all the electrics, ecu and engine wiring looms.The costs will be high unless you are doing everything yourself and then maybe buying a good used modern Ford with an Ecoboost engine for example may be another option?

stevieturbo

Simply swapping in an engine and making it run, shouldnt be particularly difficult one way or another. Although seems a bit of a whopper loophole if they allow people to do this to proclaim Euro4 emissions compliance for reduced tax etc, yet the swap will be far easier to totally ignore all emissions compliance aspects during the swap to make it easy for the user.

st220kyle

Ive just completed an engine swap this year on my fiesta and got it changed on the logbook to show it now has a larger cc, however when doing Insurance quotes it still shows as the original engine cc.
I didn't need any receipts, I just sent off the logbook from the donor car and my fiesta with a cover letter explaining what I had done. I got the new logbook back with no questions asked.

Moon Dust

stevieturbo - I suppose Euro4 is just a line in the sand they had to draw somewhere to make a quick buck without the overheads of setting up a test for each and every car. I'm guessing it's not gonna be a huge percentage of people who would exploit such a loophole, they'll still make their money.

st220kyle - What did you swap it from/to? How long did it take you to do?

st220kyle

I took an engine out of a puma and put it in a fiesta, I just spent a few hours on it here and there so it took quite a bit longer than it should have done. I'm sure I could have done it in under 4 days if I did it in one go.

Bare in mind, this was a very straight forward conversion which is very well documented on the web. I didn't need any custom parts or anything other than what came with the donor car.

What your talking about is alot more involved I believe

Moon Dust

Thanks st220kyle, have looked that Puma/Fiesta conversion up. That sort of tried and trusted route is just what I was hoping to find here. Only for a bigger car. Ha.

But I saw there seems to be a few Zetec engines going into Escorts, some as late as Mk 5 and 6s. Found a PDF from a Classic Ford magazine giving some pointers.

djmca

Yeah ive a 2 litre Zetec in my 1982 MK3, i have informed DVLA and updated cc on the V5. MOT emissions are still as per the year of the car however im in N.Ireland so may differ a bit from the Mainland

Would love to do an Ecoboost conversion but i wouldnt be worried about emissions/tax etc