Smidydevil

Right I'm building a 1.8 zetec turbo. My target power is ~300bhp. I already have my forged pistons and forged rods for this. I think the compression ratio is 8.8:1 iirc. My engine is a 105 spec engine so will I want to change the cams over? I have under piston oil jets too and wil be using MLS HG and ARP bolts throughout. I have a good idea of what I need to build a zetec turbo what I'm asking is what parts would be best suited to my engine. My car is used daily so I don't want it kicking into boost at 4.5k rpm lol
The car its going in is a fiesta rs turbo btw.. I will be buying a OFAM ecu from boost monkeys which from what I understand is megasquirt just plug n play style .

What I'm looking for opinions on are:
What turbo would be best to use? I have a escort t3 turbo on my cvh engine currently but I don't think these flow enough? I was thinking of a t3/t4 turbo. (Apparently t3 exhaust ad t4 inlet) would like people's opinions and suggestions on what's best to use here?

Injectors... I think I'm going to run it in on low boost with some biege 701's but I know these wont be man enough to fuel for 300 horses. I'm thinking I'm going to be using the FRST inlet arrangement as it keeps things simple for the time being ... I have looked into using the rover turbo inlet arrangement but seems to be alot of messing around trying to sort the ISCV and throttle body out and then sorting the fuel rail and injectors. Seems alot of hassle tbh lol

For the exhaust manifould I was thinking of getting a stainless one rather than making the cvh manifould fit. I am a welder and fabricator by trade so should be simple enough

Iv got a FMIC. 2.5" straight through scorpion system, I'm going to make a downpipe for the turbo , was thinking of going 3" for this or would this be pointless with the rest being 2.5? Engine will use the cvh flywheel and a 4paddle clutch. And will get a escort lsd gearbox at first and look into building a ib5 gearbox with the LSD fitted

Might of missed a few bits out. Just asking for advice on buying the correct parts for the power first time so I don't get to remapping stage and need to replace a shit load of parts

ADDED: my engine is a silvertop engine if that helps and I know the valve springs need replacing for half decent boost. Anyone know of a way of doing this without spending £300+ on some springs???
Russ

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Devil developments valve springs for a silvertop are £150 and rated to 2.6 bar boost

Turbo wise you could have your current turbo rebuilt to stage3 spec with .48 rear housing but won't run 300bhp but will be very responsive

Otherwise good options are
Focus rs mk1 manifold, turbo and down pipe gt25
Cosworth 4x4 t3 turbo and modded down pipe
Crazycage manifold with Evo td05 10.5 turbo conversion

All of these will get around your target and not cost the earth

Astra vxr injectors?
Siemens deka 630cc is the best choice with the ecu you want

Inlet buy a blacktop zetec inlet complete or a focus rs mk1 unit and the fiesta rs turbo adjustable fuel reg bolts to it and it will flow so much better than the one you have and an adaptor plate

nevsrevs

just on one note, if you do end up with a true 300hp motor, the torque will blow a bogo bc box to bits pretty quickly.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Just use mk6 escort 1.8 diesel boxes for £35 a time and fit your slipper in them

CrOwSoN15

Ratios aren't really suited are they? I'd of thought they would shit themselves too.

nevsrevs

derv boxes are no stronger that petrol ones, still go pop, fit a mtx once and be done with it.

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

personal turbo choice for me in a daily driver would be something t28 sized. it'd pull well from low down and still deliver plenty of top end power.

Plenty of choices on springs, although the DD ones for £150 don't seem bad. There are others available from other engines that are higher poundage than standard, but barely worth messing with.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

300bhp???
stop messing with an 1800 engine to start with, the extra capacity of a 2.0 or 2.1 if you use forged 86mm pistons (actually 2046cc), that's around 15% more flow/power from the off.
dd valve springs or area six ones, frst inlet isn't the best choice, go for an rs1800/mondeo zetec alloy inlet fit some subaru side feeds into it and that's done then, or else convert to end feeds and get some siemens 55lb's in there.

and i totally agree with the box comments, i had a 1.8zvh with 23psi through a 4wd cossie turbo and i chewed boxes every thousand miles or so, diff bearings tended to go as a rule.
the mtx75 from a frs didn't make a noise, and that was a full on forged zetec turbo with a gt30 turbo, so over 400bhp at 2.2BAR peak, holding 2BAR for a lot of use.

Smidydevil

Devil development valve springs sound perfect! Any one got a link? Can't find anything on them ATM .
Cosworth turbo sounds like a good option for me ATM although I wouldn't mind using a t28 or similar would it be capable of flowing enough tho?
Astra vxr injectors will these fit into the rs turbo fuel rail?
Zetec inlet- this does seen a good option but what do I do when it comes to what throttle body to use. Sensors? ISCV and what work would need to be done to fit too feed injector to the zetec ? I'd imagine some form of machining to the Injector seats? Can I use my rs turbo fuel pressure reg with the zetec rail?
As with changing from the 1.8 to a 2l no disrespect meant but in sticking with the 1.8 and I'd like that to be the end of it. Tired of people telling me to change especially as iv already got engine pistons and conrods for it..

MTX gearbox would be a good idea but the costs of the change aren't viable spending 1k on a gearbox when my engine build won't owe me that seems stupid and alot of effort. Remember this car is my daily so 3. Days with no motor to convert over to a different gearbox isn't ideal. From wht I know they need custom mounts, custom drive shafts, gear linkage changing as they're cable and then a hydro clutch change aswell . Is alot of work. Would rather get a cts gearbox. Plus I hate the feel of these new cable boxes

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Vxr injectors do fit

Cosworth turbo is fine, devil developments sell the springs on ebay or just phone them direct, but mention they are for a silvertop as they are £100 cheaper

Speak to crazycage on here about the mtx conversion parts

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i only skimmed the original bit on rods and pistons, so crack on with that.
gearbox, well you say you can't be without it doing the conversion, i say you can't be without it when it smashes the box and you have to send it off for rebuilding.
it is expensive for sure, so i'd be looking to drop your power expectations and keep it semi reliable, i do not know of a 300bhp zetec turbo keeping any form of bc/ib5 box intact for long.
injectors, if you use an alloy zetec inlet all the sensors will work with OFAM (megasquirt), so no need to change them. injectors, just find some side feeds and they pop straight in with all the zetec stuff, best to look to change fuel reg though as standard zetec is only 2.7 BAR, alfa/vw/bmw do 3/3.5/4BAR ones straight fit, cvh fuel rail ones don't fit.
cvh efi inlets are poor at flowing, but the alloy zetec ones produce good low down torque and not too bad up top, sadly not as good as area six or jenvey ones.
t28 would be a good turbo, just a bit too big for your target power, a good gt25 should be alright though or just a decent T3.

QplateRST!

run an ib5 box I ran my zetec turbo with one for about two years like you said it's not a cheap conversion to go mtx an ib5 box will brake in the end tho just have a back up box ready

My car was a true 300hp zetec turbo and did run around 50 runs down the 1/4mile with a ib5box

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

To run a cts box you will need to limit torque and get it mapped to be more progressive with the boost, that way it might be ok, me personally know I could smash a cts box to bits in a few moments at 300bhp, so will depend on you

If you don't want to spend loads on gearbox conversions ect, then don't go for ultimate power, do what your doing and just have a slightly less of a target, fit a stage 3 t3 and have a solid 250/260bhp and shed loads of response and you should get away with a cts stage2+ at that

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

That's why I said to use either a blacktop zetec or complete focus rs inlet, bolts straight up, flows well and the fiesta rs turbo fuel reg bolts straight to it

People on here say they are bad but nearly every modded focus rs mk1 upto 350+bhp is still running them with just updated injectors

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Oh and to run the zetec inlet the bonnet doesn't close on a fiesta rs turbo and looks shit

Not only do you need spacers but the front of the bonnet need to be raised so always looks undone

And I'm talking from experience as its what was on mine and the charge pipe touchs the bonnet even with this

Smidydevil

Like I said I'm not really interested in the MTX conversion too expensive for me at the moment I will try my hand with the ib5 gearbox with an LSD and see how I get on

Thanks for all the help so far people

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Speak to karlos g, he built his ib5 using a mk6 1.8 diesel case, ka 1.3 gears and rs turbo LSD with new bearings and all the bits are under £170 which includes new bearings from burtons and he charges £100/120 to build it

And he's been running the stage 3 t3 with loads of boost for two years and his box is still going

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Above gives near the same ratios as a rs turbo

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

the alloy one flows better, but i have no experience with frst's, i would have thought the space behind engine would be tight as my mk2 was.
if it fits then it fits i guess, and saves the hassle with injectors/fpr etc.
they can run well enough, but the bsfc drops due to design being quite restrictive hence so many change them when upping the power to make it more efficient.
really the engine should be cantered over forwards anyhow, well in terms of blacktops anyhow.
if i were to do another ZT i'd just fit a complete frs engine and tilt it forwards.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

The zetec one has a limit of 320bhp and I got a few friends with mk1 frs's doing over 350bhp on there's

The space In a xr2 is better I think, due to the engine mounting lower in the bay.

I'm with you on fitting the frs engine as I've not heard of one person having oil pump problems at 300/350bhp

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

the zetec one has a limit of 320bhp?
first i've heard, i know ian howell has unofficially tested one and yielded very good results, not quite area six or jenvey results but better than the rest as far as i know.
i would be pretty sure i ran more than 320bhp on my zetec, wheelspin in fifth at 100-120mph on yoko 539's 195/45r16's in the dry.
only weak link on the frs inlets is that they are prone to cracking, not sure whether this is due to heat, vibrations or stress from boost. when i say prone, not many running big power to make this a big issue.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Anything over 350bhp and I would be onto crazycage for a pair of manifolds anyway, but I'm looking for 250bhp max at the min

I am thinking of starting to build up a new engine when mines mapped but again I would only want a responsive 300bhp engine

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i agree with the manifolds bit, gary's are very smart and was thinking of getting one of his inlet ones, already had a tubular exhaust one.
a nice gt25/gt28 would be my choice and have a very usable 300bhp, i had too much power for everyday use, plus things really start to cost a lot over 300 horses.
i'd still change the box at that level though, even a mondeo box with slipper in it would be alright, but a frs box isn't that dear at £500-600, transit shifter, sleeved shafts, cheap speedo, less than a grand so less than a new cts2+ box by quite a margin.
i think the £450 clutch would put a lot off, as the hydraulic conversion can be done very simply and not expensive either, i just converted a frs one to work for me, £20 cylinder and a piece of metal for a bracket.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

I would look to buy a full mk1 frs running gear then

Crazycage shafts and mounts, sort linkage and speedo set up, and hydro clutch to suit

Forge actuator
Tubular manifold
Free flowing decat system
Induction kit
My grs cooler
Ms ecu

And this small mods will make 300bhp and be very responsive, I know it would be cheaper to build a zetec turbo but the frs lump will be so much more reliable and have a good ap racing clutch set up as standard

Smidydevil

Right so I'm looking at either a t3 or t28 being a good match for what I want correct?

As for Carlos g on the gearbox il on him and find some info thanks very much for that!

I would prefer to run the zetec inlet tbh as it saves messing around with spacer plates etc and ports match alot better. So I can run this on the standard zetec sensors and throttle body, I then need to find a different FPR and find some side feed injectors correct?
What about bonnet clearance? Will this clear on a mk3 fiesta? I really don't want to use spacers or bonnet spacers
And out of curiosity has anyone tried fitting the RST. Rail to the zetec inlet? Best of both worlds then and being able to weld I could easily mount it..

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

It won't clear without spacers and raising the front bump stops a lot, but otherwise yes it fits

The t3 you need is a cosworth one off a 4x4 with a decent up rated actuator

And yeh side feed injectors unless you get the inlet modded to except top feed like my old one

If using the fiesta fuel rail you will need to weld some supports for it on the inlet?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

If you only want 300bhp then forget everything else, sell all your unneeded parts and just do this...
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...onversion.html

As for turbo choice a RST stage 3 T3 (.48/55) will make 300bhp on a 2.0 ZT, but it will be getting a hard time doing it, a 4x4 Cossie T3 (.48/60) is a better choice if you don't mind using a custom down pipe.

An IB5 with an LSD is a great budget option.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Im with karlos, good option

I really want a stage 3 t3 but I am looking at a cossie 4x4 turbo but I only want a solid 250bhp

QplateRST!

If I was specing a turbo and gearbox for a 1.8 16v turbo it would be a 4x4 sierra cosworth turbo 48 exhaust housing gearbox wise mk6 escort van non turbo ib5 gearbox fitted with s2 LSD I personally would not bother using the ka gear ratios as IMO the van ratios are spot on

This is just what I would do I'm not saying any of the above are wrong but I've proven a similar spec works in my fiesta

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

I'm trying to get that spec lol

But running external waste gate and screamer

So I'm hoping for a solid 250bhp, I just need a base mapp for gotech with vxr injectors and cossie t3 on a 2.0?

Smidydevil

I have seen and read that guide many times and is a great guide! But like I said earlier I'm not changing my engine this is what I want to use .. Plus a st170 engine would set me back more than my engine, forged pistons, forged steel rods have.. And my engine should be good for 400bhp


I will look for a 4x4 cosworth turbo then seems the best of both worlds, Im not fussed about the downpipe tbh I was going to make a new downpipe anyway lol

Yes the ib5 with a LSD will be the option I take for my gearbox, ad if needbe il just keep a spare

Just to double check you want the 7bolt s2 LSD for the ib5 right?

Smidydevil

Thanks for your input , this is the spec I'm going to go for seems the best one without spending mega bucks and over speccing
LOVE your mk2 btw! Must be an animal to drive!

crazycage

spare engine built for £150?

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Do what I'm doing, for the sake of £150 have a spare built up in case you need it, especially if its a daily driver

QplateRST!

My only advice with the ib5 is treat it to new bearings gaskets and some good oil when your building it up with the s2 LSD I personally would start collecting focus rs mtx bits ready for a conversion if your planning to push you engine over the 300hp mark

Bits pop up cheap on eBay from time to time like clutches and gear selectors , Crazycage could also supply you with shafts and mounts for it !

I would also keep your 1.8 exhaust cam in and swap your inlet for a 2.0l cam also I would personally not run an actuator and would run an external wastegate with boost controler

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

You've gone Gotech, what made you choose that?
Fair play mate, you must of got your rods and pistons real cheap as an ST170 engine can be had for less than £400.

LSD you need is an 8 bolt S2 not a 6 bolt S1.
Gearbox I think?

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

Because I got the ecu and pre-made braided loom ready for the sensors I'm using with options like lamba set up to run closed loop and launch control wiring already done

All for £250 delivered

I know the ms would do all that and more but money is tight and it was cheap and I know how to wire it up myself having used it before

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

St170 bottom ends can be had for £150

Then you need a blacktop head unskimmed, frs 1.8mm gasket, new cambelt KIT and water pump

Decent valve springs too!

Very cheap set up and if I do another later it's the route I might take as it should rev well with the 8.9.1 compression

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah for that money you can't grumble Mark!

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

That's what I thought, and I just got vxr injectors for £75 delivered, so I'm just building it up now, just need a turbo and to mod my screamer pipe and do a pedal conversion

One thing that pissed me off 3/4 days after buying my gotech and already ripping the ofab out a ofam came up for sale lol
Nearly brought it aswell but a friend of mine had already asked for the ofab