turnover

in my opinion they are a fantastic engine yes they rev and rev and are one of the best n/a engines on the market ,as for torque got to agree with Chip ,they are torquey for an n/a as what your forgeting is the torque is messured over a larger rev range where as a zetec is finished at say 6500rpm most v techs carry on to 9000rpm so the torque reading will took different compared,
Its one of those engines you either love it or hate it ....

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

correct; i cannot for the life of me figure out what your point is

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Completely agree with all of that. There's no denying that dynamically they are fantastic - but the driving experience they give isn't for everyone.

3i_gaz

Not many people will jump in a VTEC 1st time and drive it correctly anyways tbh so wont enjoy it half as much as getting used to how the engine responds, revs and how it drives best

Chip

iTrader: (3)

DanW, the moment you are on boost, all your problems dissapear from a V/E point of view, so thats why in the context of cam durations and timing and lift turbos just render the whole discussion largely irrelevant (certainly in terms of product car specific outputs), although turbo cars do occasionally have VVT technology as well its far less important to the driver if they do or not (although vtec DOES work very well with turbos too, but then so does more boost, so there are suddenly a lot more ways to skin the V/E cat).

Its kind of like talking about the finer points of music and then throwing a 20" sub and a 10KW amp into the mix, it just sort of makes the rest of the discussion pointless as you cant see the finnesse anymore.

botters

iTrader: (2)

quote of the year

sierrsteve1980

iTrader: (7)

I for one used to really enjoy my other halves vti civic with the b16. 189bhp from a normally aspirated 1.6 was pretty impressive, but it was played with a bit.

Had a play with my mates toyota starlet that was a smidge over 200bhp, it was really close i think the only thing that gave the civic the edge was the rev range.

Alps Pacino

I know of 4 failed vtec engines

s2000 hit 3rd instead of 5th and blew it up
crx vtec hit 1st instead of 3rd and blew it up
ctr ran it dry of oil and knacked the big ends
my itr hit 3rd instead of 5th and bent a few valves

Havent read the whole thread but i love me honda vtecs. The problem with the vtec is people proper bum them and say stupid stuff like "its like
a turbo coming in" when its not just like you get the likes of mo in rst's saying rs4's are shite and he destroys lambo's lol

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

user error!!

Alps Pacino

exactly haha.

There a cracking little engine and way ahead of there time

Compare a 1990 crx vtec and a 1990 xr2i for a fair comparison. Xr2i is out done in every area

xr_craig

iTrader: (2)

Except rust

I can't understand why anyone would think it's a shit engine. Fair enough, it may not always be the best engine to suit the needs of the car but that doesn't mean it's crap.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

None of those would be legitimate warranty claims though, as they didnt fail, they were broken.


Agreed, nothing like a turbo at all, unless its a 3psi turbo that only comes in at 6Krpm

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I drove danneths type R and once it's up in the revs i found it a very potential car... Loved the induction noise.

Alps Pacino

Its mad the arguments people use to slag the vtec off, "it wouldnt pull up a hill at 20mph in 5th gear" yeah and neither would 99% of cars on the road lol.

Honda are good at what they do which is make good reliable fun fwd cars with the exception of the s2000 where they managed to make one of the only 2 seater soft tops that isnt a faggoty hairdresers car lol

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Been in an S2000, Prelude 2.2 vtec, integra type R & a civic type R... Not really anything to write home about i'm afraid, the S2000 was the biggest dissapointment, really peaky and flat delivery, even thrashing it's cunt off at 9500rpm it felt Sloooooooooooooow ..Seemed to spend it's life in 2nd and 3rd gear, and I thought the gearing was far too tall for it's power, top of 3rd gear is close to 120Mph IIRC?! I know they are great really, but I just don't like the way they drive, and the HUGE over-hype of Vtec, it really just makes a slightly higher noise with no real forward motion

Fullflush

Don't float my boat. Been in loads.

They would be a good choice if for some bizzare reason you could not own a turbo car. However this would never happen, so they are an inferior choice.

I'd even rather own a modern turbo diesel to be honest.

casper88

Well this has made a really good read and to be honest has toatally changed my opion on the humble vtec. As I read everyones posts I agree I was wrong. And think we all agree they are a fantastic engine and have a reason to have hype around them. But just they are a personal taste just like cossie's are a personal taste etc.

GVK.

danneth

You've been in loads, i wonder why

Your comment really is though

Westy

iTrader: (1)

Ive had my type r for a good few years. All its needed is service and tyres... great all round everyday car

altough seeing Dan @ Rapidford pull out infront of me yesterday, sideways in his saff cos did make me feel rather inadequate

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

NOT N/A??! .....paaaaahahahahahahaha, you absolute slavering retard.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear...

Yeah there should have been a rule that Honda could only have a 6750rpm limit on their engines... because the fact they have built reliable engines that come with a c9,000rpm rev limit is just plain cheating?!

Beat me to it, I was planning an almost identical response when I read it.

Correct. I went from a c300bhp Impreza Turbo to a 175bhp Civic VTi and the first time I was out in the Civic, my mate in his ~140bhp Civic drove by me without any hassle at all.

Nothing I've liked more than getting out onto a nice, quiet, twisty road and exploiting the full 4,000rpm rev range of a TDi..... errrrm, no. For a daily commute and semi-exciting car, some modern TDi cars are quite good, but for a fun car that begs to be driven properly then Honda VTEC/TypeR stuff is difficult to beat in my experience.

My Civic Type R didn't struggle to pull itself round the speedo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEGRC...&feature=g-upl


Cheers,
Grant

big hyndy

iTrader: (1)

This is my old EF! I loved this little car and shocked plenty of turbo cars on the road!
But even though it had near enough the same power to weight ratio as my Mk2 FRS they are in two completely different cars



The fact is Vtec is a fantastic piece of work by Honda! "End of"

3FRD

iTrader: (2)

Breathing mods and a remap transforms the EP3 Type R. A few simple mods they are much quicker. I've had 3 of them now and they are brilliant engines. I love they way they rev. Very good drivers cars. I've had one with 120k and my last one was sold with 90k miles. No engines problems on any of them. I bought my current one with 26k miles and I'm on 57k now with a good few mods and it gets driven hard. I warm it up properly and keep the oil clean and it's going strong with no problems.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

I re-read my posts to see where I'd been so hideously off topic... You brought TDs into it, and I commented on that, and on my opinion of the VTEC (as that was what the OP was asking about)?

I stand by what I wrote, and it does seem that you're being particularly argumentative today. Or do you just not like people not liking VTECS?

casper88

GRANT. NOT N/A??! .....paaaaahahahahahahaha, you absolute slavering retard.
Little harsh do you not think seen as if u read further down I have apoligised etc!!I was only mearly expressing my opioin to see what people thought and take it word of wisdom!

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

Not really, if you wade into a discussion then people will expect you to know a little about the subject matter IMO... the 'VTEC is not n/a' comment was pretty dense, specially because it was the basis of your argument that VTEC was an additional performance enhancing part on an N/A engine, like a Turbo/Supercharger.


Cheers,
Grant

vroooom ptssssh

I can't understand why anyone can deny that a Vtec engine is a great piece of machinery?

The fact it can have 2 different cam profiles, one for bottom end power/fuel economy and one for top end power is fantastic imo...best of both worlds whereas a zetec or C20XE for talking sake can only have one or the other.

Anyone comparing it to a boosted engine is just plain stupid...


Infact, tempted to buy my bro in laws 52 plate EP3, 42K miles, 2 owners, he drives like a fairy...needs detailed and wheels refurbed to bring it back up to scratch, said I could have it for a v.good price.

casper88

Why would I need to know that was the whole point on me asking what all the hype was about in the first place. And I thought it was a power enchancing device witch is why i was asking and taking people advice

Rob Virgo

iTrader: (6)

Can you get me am original s2000 oil filter key, filter has to be torqued on as it spins off at high revs otherwise and you need proper socket type thingy to torque it on......dealer here can't get it for me....

749steve

iTrader: (1)

my civic never rattles or uses any oil
st170 focus(which has vvt) 170bhp
civic type r 200bhp
st170 8.2 to 60mph
civic type r 6.4 to 60mph

unlike all the fords ive had (cossie,rs turbos,focus,fiesta st,etc) it never breaks down and returns 31mpg round town and 37 on a run

im more than happy to take anyone out in mine if they have doubts as to how good they are

matts1

I've had a few CTR's and 100% agree that very few will get into one and be able to gain the most out of the power bands. Most get out having expected the sensation of a turbo boosting and so feel let down. Not helped by v-tec kicked in yoooo hype.

They are more about getting the engine singing way up in the rev range and this at first feels unnatural.When in a normal car you are changing gear, these are just getting going and a few days driving and you will be screaming the tits off it and loving it.

I found they go well, but are totally different to turbo powered motors and require a totally different style of driving.

Failure pretty much always come down to driver error or maintenance. Look after it and it will give you far fewer problems than the majoirty of motors out there.

craigybaby

mine is the same never rattles uses next to no oil i think its great and economy wise its better than my fiesta st was go figure lol

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Quality lol....

weegaz22

Best anology to make is that if you had a lotus 7 style car....some guys would go the busa engined route because they like an engine that will just rev forever, some guys on the other hand might stick in a rover v8 or a zetec in, all 3 engines make roughly near the same power, they just make it differently

For a sporty road car personally i like/prefer a turbo'd car, as you dont have to have it bouncing off the limiter everywhere (being a cop magnet) but if it was a track car then there is something about the razor sharp throttle response of a tuned up n/a, things like being able to steer it on the throttle, rather than a big wedge of torque coming in on boost from a turbo

I like both methods, both are fun, just in different ways

danneth

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You seemed to miss that ALL small capacity N/A engines suffer from the same problems that vtec do with a lack of midrange power (or worse still dont even have power up top either), so I felt it wasnt a very well expressed sentiment specifically about vtec engines, would suit me personally better if EVERYONE hated vtecs as I could buy them cheaper then TBH so not really a case of me caring if people like them or not, but i'd prefer if posts were accurate, and the way yours seemed to be singling out vtec's as lacking in mid range when its ALL small capacity petrol N/A engines I felt was misrepresentative thats all mate

foreigneRS

love the vtec - got it on my bike and it's so addictive

i bet some people come away from a test drive disappointed as it doesn't kick in when the engine is cold, and new engines always seem to make less power than when they've done 6000 miles (speaking from experience of having driven 20+ brand new hondas for 6 months over the last 10 years)

CrOwSoN15

Not true, old CRX/Civics were shocking when it came to rust!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

No, I wasn't singling them out just giving my opinion of the engine. It's more the fact that the VTEC's USP is that the power 'hit' is at the top of the rev range, and on a road car, I don't like that.

Anyway I've think we've exhausted this enough now

Chip

iTrader: (3)

"Exhausted" I see what you did there