conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

Originally Posted by Vosa
Commission Directive 2010/48/EU of 5 July 2010 adapted Directive 2009/40/EC. Article 2 of Directive 2010/48/EU requires Member States to comply with it by 31 December 2011 at the latest. Annex II and specifically the table at paragraph 4 lists the minimum inspection requirements. We will be working with the Department for Transport and the industry to ensure that we introduce the new Directive requirements in a pragmatic way that satisfies the Commission's intentions. In all cases below the test method is visual and from 1 January 2012 vehicles may fail the MOT test for the following reasons:

Item 4.1.4 deals with the lamp source and lamp compatibility.
Item 6.1.9 deals with Engine Performance and we know how difficult it is going to be to both define and identify "illegal" chipping.
Item 4.11 deals with electrical wiring security and condition
Item 7 deals with safety belts and restraint systems that includes airbag systems missing or malfunction indicator lights illuminated indicating a defect.

There will be consultation on the contents of our Inspection Manual in due course where there will be an opportunity to comment on our proposals.

http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to-mot/

Any one got any more info on this ? seems like alot of horse shit to me.

Jimmyc

Chipped ECU's will fail an MOT?
Well that's going to take 90% of RSTurbo's off the road even before the testers had a chance to check for rust!

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

I know. surly this wont acctuly happen ?

jamie's

how the hell could they properly impose that?
it'd take extra time equipment etc to test for ecu mod's
cant see vosa paying the extra is suply the equipment when it makes no differance to the cars safety anyhow,
plus what if its a live map or aftermarket ecu?
no sign of it being tampered with, i just cant see it ever hapening

chaffe

Agreed, it will not affect old stuff, vosa is not interested in the old pre cat minority. Thier concern will be with new stuff as it is taxed on emmisions.

Jimmyc

Ah, I hadn't thought of emissions, although would it not be a fail on emissions test anyway if this was the case (vosa concerns about emissions and the govt getting their money for tax) . So a custom map would not be an issue if it passed the legal emissions levels for that vehicle?

D16PJM

Whats an illegal chip? surely if its your car and you pay for it its not illegal, if it was all tuners would be out of bussiness.

rich123

iTrader: (3)

cant see how they can do it realy as long as the emissions are right how would they know

focusv8

When they say illegal they mean not as originally fitted by the manufacturer.

And yes all chip modifiers will be out of business if Vosa have found a way to prove beyond doubt the ECU has been modified.

It'll only take a few wrong decisions by VOSA to get the illegal chip part removed from the test.

.

Johnny Knoxville

Some chipping/remaps improve emissions don't they so why fail them?

focusv8

From VOSA''

The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change – the European Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean for MOT testers.
Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.
The new Directive keeps the EU minimum 4-2-2 test frequency but adds a number of new elements to the British MOT test. The Directive anticipates all test changes being in place by 1 January 2012, and a common European approach to test certificates in place by 1 January 2014. So what is VOSA doing to introduce the changes?
In terms of test frequency, in mid-July the coalition government confirmed that it intends ‘to look at the issue of MOT test frequencies later this year’. VOSA contributed statistical data to inform the last review in 2008, and we expect that our computer system and the data you have entered will be utilised again in much the same way.
We expect to hear more details of the government’s review proposals later in the year.
As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldn’t necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the test’s scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured – often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesn’t look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.
Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations.
Some of the new items may require extra effort on the part of the tester – when we know for sure what that is we’ll be talking again with our trade and DfT colleagues to work out what the impact will be.
The common EU test certificate should be relatively easy to achieve – the only data that the Directive expects and that we don’t currently provide is the symbol for the vehicle’s country of origin. Probably 99% of vehicles tested will have
‘UK’ entered here, but if you do test vehicles with a foreign plate, you will need to enter the correct country symbol. We may even be able to make this change earlier if there is a convenient opportunity.
The MOT trade can rest assured that VOSA is working closely with you to introduce any new elements as efficiently and effectively as possible, with the minimum of fuss. Just as importantly, we are also working closely with Siemens to ensure that any system changes due on New Year’s Eve 2011 go smoothly! We should know more by the time the MOT seminars take place – come along and ask the experts.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

They don't have sufficient data for older cars.
Anything on engine size based tax rather than emissions based tax will be fine I reckon

Ie all cossies and rs turbos etc

botters

iTrader: (2)

there is talk of cctv on test lanes in the near future to ensure tests are being carried out properly how they will moniter them all is beyond me tho unless they just check at random

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Most modified cars are essentially illegal as they no longer conform to their type approved specs, anything with an aftermarket ecu is by definition not on a Type approved map.

They'll not be bothering with old stuff though as imagine the number of different pieces of equipment every mot station would have to have.

Eventually we will end up on a tuv style setup with approved mods only but it won't effect older cars as once again there isn't the data available.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

It will be a combination of automated software checking for appropriate activity and then flagging for a human to look if it looks like a test is invalid to the software.

chaffe

I agree chip, i mean what is the percentage of older cars on the road? pre cat cars (up to 1993) probably account for less than 1 percent of cars on the road now, that is not thier concern, i think the emphasis would be on 2001 onwards cars.

Mk4 Lew

iTrader: (1)

ye but havnt they done a chip that tells the michines its standed

dojj

iTrader: (3)

They are already looking at ways to get rid of older cars (scrappage scheame anyone?) so you can expect more and more measures like this to get rid of the menace of older vehicles that don't contribute to the governments coffers.

chaffe

what machines? older cars have no OBD to set up coms with, also as mentioned there would be too many variables with older stuff, not to mention cars with aftermarket ecus, i think this is going to be one very hard rule to implement TBH.

chaffe

Agreed, old cars just dont make the money for the government, they just dont want anything older than ten years on the road

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

I wonder if it will matter if my MOT tester does not even want to see my car

Chip

iTrader: (3)

In the case of the standard ecu on my clio, the ONLY way to read the chip is to unsolder it from the ecu and place it into a chip reader, can you really imagine your local MOT garage doing that

Chip

iTrader: (3)

When they have CCTV in the bays yes its going to matter rather a lot as the OCR software will be looking for your number plate and potentially if its clever enough check the colour and maybe even what car it is (not hard for it to learn what a sierra looks like etc if they go that far with it) and of course if you do get a person glance at it then its really an issue if there isnt a car of the right type and colour with the correct reg plate sat in the bay!

gaz s1

just another reason to get out of this eu debacle!!!, how much is all this going to cost? but i guess the price of mot,s will just go up to compensate

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I will try and do some digging and see what i can find out,

but id guess the usual case that the people at the VOSA test stations will know less than anyone else, as they are always the last to find out about new changes lol.

It will be very hard to make Remaps testable, id guess it will be such a stupid reason for failure that hardly any will fail at all, you may find they will put a stupid thing in there like the Management light has to be illuminated etc etc.

you may even fine its to do with emmisions, and EGR/DPF removal,

The Airbag, and headlight changes have been coming for a while, certainly since i was there.

Retro Al

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a load of shit to me,we declare that we chip our cars and pay the extra insurance
Its getting to the point were just a dedicated track car is best option anyway,and just drive some boring shit car everyday

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its nothing to do with insurance, its to do with the fact that your car is departing from its type approved spec.

It all makes PERFECT sense TBH, although only in the context of newer cars where the data can be made available to stand any chance of checking the map.


Agreed, only thing that matters to me really about my daily driver is that its cheap to run, I only realistically have a budget of about 15K a year in total for my daily driving and doing trackdays, so every pound I save on my daily driver is a pound I can spend on track, so the less fuel my daily uses the more fuel my trackday cars can.

chaffe

Could be right there, they maybe class ilegal chipping as cat/dpf removal and or the management light being on. Thing is though thousands of new transit connect postie vans were recalled and had the ecu re flashed and the dpf removed, they were also re classified into another tax bracket, because the dpf was clogging on the short stop start runs.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That sort of reclassification after a depature from the approved type is very expensive, worth it if dealing with large numbers of identical vehicles like in your example, but a total nightmare to try and do on a one off basis.

Our country has signed up to all sorts of carbon and emissions based treaties and in order to satisfy our end of the deal we have to be seen to be cracking down on people making depatures from approved specification which may increase carbon emissions etc.

1.9 xr2 on 40's

i feel safe in the thought that my mot man wont know how to to anything lke this so wont

im pretty sure he doesnt know how to use the beam setter

botters

iTrader: (2)

mate i know plenty of testers who cant use a beam setter properly lol

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

That's what I already do, i've got the 3 Door to have fun in and all I want out of my everyday car is cheap maintance and high mpg. (oh and ideally 4 doors and a big boot)
Rich

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

I don't think the industry will die out. In Germany it has always been mandatory for "chips" to be approved by TÜV and the changes had to be entered in the cars documents. There's still loads of them driving around and a chip is generally not much more expensive than in the UK.

After all, a full emissions test by TÜV for a single car/engine/bhp combination is about 800 - 1000 pounds. So if a tuner sells 100 chips, that's neglectable, really.

No reason to panic, IMO but another bit of modifying freedom (that we never had, hence the signature ) lost...

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I wasnt saying I thought the remapping industry will die out, they'll just find ways to spoof the tests and make the MOT man think its still standard or will do like the bluefin where you can take it on and off.

Its home modified stuff like my nova that will be impossible to create undo new legislation (and rightly so) and the rules relating to that sort of thing have been changing since 1998 with the introduction of the sva

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

Aslong as it wont effect older cars :P

SiZT

I think your all missing a major point, so I've highlighted it for you.

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

Yeah but will they be aloud to the ecu lid off ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

almost certainly not, or even to remove a plastic cover to look at the ecu for that matter!

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

What a waste of time.

It does make me laugh that we go through all this carbon emissions business all the time, trying to save the world.

I know it's the right thing to do on a moral basis, but what is the point, honestly? While the US and China are pumping out carbon like there's no tomorrow, the odd car with a funny engine in it is going to make no difference at all. It's all just political games as usual.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that if the only change we see from this, is the MOT test going up in price, and tuning companies having to charge more as they have to pass stupid approval tests for their chip conversions.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The UK makes no significant contribution to the worlds carbon emissions in the grand scheme of things, us changing when china doesnt is just pointless, its like a football team trying to cut the wages bill but the players stay the same and they just give the groundman less