whats the greatest car engine ever
06-01-2010, 12:51 PM
#121
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fully ally construction, half a million mile reliable, they are so smooth that you can bounce them off the rev limiter and still stand a coin up ON ITS END on top of the engine and it wont fall off, the internals are good for massive power in standard form, they have one of the flattest torque curves of any engine ever, the standard internals are capable of approaching 9000rpm.
They are just truely epicly awesome "money no object" engines.
People look at the shitty looking exhaust manifolds and think "what a load of crap" cause they dont realise they have been specifically designed like that to smooth the torque curve, if they were equal length sexy tubular race ones then they would gain up top and lose down the bottom, which isnt what lexus wanted.
You get something like 85% of peak torque from 2K rpm till nearly the rev limiter, when you accelerate it one it feels almost like driving an electric car, its just totally linear.
One of my favourite engines of all time without a doubt, wonderful combination of 8 cylinders and high technolog, its crazy to think the design dates back to the late 80s!
They are just truely epicly awesome "money no object" engines.
People look at the shitty looking exhaust manifolds and think "what a load of crap" cause they dont realise they have been specifically designed like that to smooth the torque curve, if they were equal length sexy tubular race ones then they would gain up top and lose down the bottom, which isnt what lexus wanted.
You get something like 85% of peak torque from 2K rpm till nearly the rev limiter, when you accelerate it one it feels almost like driving an electric car, its just totally linear.
One of my favourite engines of all time without a doubt, wonderful combination of 8 cylinders and high technolog, its crazy to think the design dates back to the late 80s!
06-01-2010, 01:19 PM
#124
Regular Contributor
God's own engine from the land of the rising sun....
Err.....
The rb 26, the Race Bred 2.6 litre barn stormer that those busy little bee's down at Nissan worked so furiously and carefully on that, on it's release gave the R32 skyline GTR instant cult status and each evolution since. Even named after a cool driving road up in the hills over Okinawa or some other Japanese City, where you could see the Skyline of the city below. Look up Wario Skyline on streetfire.net, or even Youtube.
Maybe not THEE greatest engine, admittedly, but "over-rated!", Absolutely not.
Err.....
The rb 26, the Race Bred 2.6 litre barn stormer that those busy little bee's down at Nissan worked so furiously and carefully on that, on it's release gave the R32 skyline GTR instant cult status and each evolution since. Even named after a cool driving road up in the hills over Okinawa or some other Japanese City, where you could see the Skyline of the city below. Look up Wario Skyline on streetfire.net, or even Youtube.
Maybe not THEE greatest engine, admittedly, but "over-rated!", Absolutely not.
06-01-2010, 09:27 PM
#126
400 N/A BHP
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ash, Hampshire
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06-01-2010, 10:06 PM
#127
My M3 V8 4.0l engine is an absolute BEAUTY. It is so clean and revs so sweetly to 8,300/8,400 rpm. The first time I took my mate out, he thought I was shifting early as it sounded so unstressed..
Needless to say the V10 from the M5, is basically the same engine with 25% more which makes it even better, but I don't have one.. cos the rest of the car was crap.
Cheers
RW
Needless to say the V10 from the M5, is basically the same engine with 25% more which makes it even better, but I don't have one.. cos the rest of the car was crap.
Cheers
RW
06-01-2010, 10:18 PM
#128
One of the highest bhp per litre at over 100bhp. But the s2000 honda is a few bhp per litre more.
I loved the e46 m3 engine, it was awesome. So crisp and LOVED to rev. However, it is NOTHING compared to the new v8 and v10, they are just total rev monsters. Check out how fast an M5 is on you tube. Look up m5board.com stuff, they do loads of runway drag races... WOOP!
RW
I loved the e46 m3 engine, it was awesome. So crisp and LOVED to rev. However, it is NOTHING compared to the new v8 and v10, they are just total rev monsters. Check out how fast an M5 is on you tube. Look up m5board.com stuff, they do loads of runway drag races... WOOP!
RW
06-01-2010, 10:41 PM
#129
Advanced PassionFord User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Staines, Middlesex
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure I would go as far as "innovative" but it was one of the first truely high mileage cheaply available engines, and it was one of
Although people say the XE engine etc can take abuse, which of course is true, they cant take 200K miles the way a zetec can, its quite impressive how little lipping there is to the bore when these engines are run for 100s of thousands of miles.
So kind of good in their own little way, but of no real performance interest etc
Although people say the XE engine etc can take abuse, which of course is true, they cant take 200K miles the way a zetec can, its quite impressive how little lipping there is to the bore when these engines are run for 100s of thousands of miles.
So kind of good in their own little way, but of no real performance interest etc
I did a headgasket on a 180'000mile 1.8 escort zetec the other day on a p reg, No noticeable lip to the bore at all
07-01-2010, 01:12 AM
#132
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: stoke-on-trent
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if they didnt have water seal problems from loads of short trips id say the rotary engine has to be up there.
Part from the f1 turbo days where else can you find a 1300cc engine that can do 1100bhp and 6 second quarter mile passes on stock internals 850bhp per litre ftw!!
Part from the f1 turbo days where else can you find a 1300cc engine that can do 1100bhp and 6 second quarter mile passes on stock internals 850bhp per litre ftw!!
07-01-2010, 08:27 AM
#135
God's own engine from the land of the rising sun....
Err.....
The rb 26, the Race Bred 2.6 litre barn stormer that those busy little bee's down at Nissan worked so furiously and carefully on that, on it's release gave the R32 skyline GTR instant cult status and each evolution since. Even named after a cool driving road up in the hills over Okinawa or some other Japanese City, where you could see the Skyline of the city below. Look up Wario Skyline on streetfire.net, or even Youtube.
Maybe not THEE greatest engine, admittedly, but "over-rated!", Absolutely not.
Err.....
The rb 26, the Race Bred 2.6 litre barn stormer that those busy little bee's down at Nissan worked so furiously and carefully on that, on it's release gave the R32 skyline GTR instant cult status and each evolution since. Even named after a cool driving road up in the hills over Okinawa or some other Japanese City, where you could see the Skyline of the city below. Look up Wario Skyline on streetfire.net, or even Youtube.
Maybe not THEE greatest engine, admittedly, but "over-rated!", Absolutely not.
Skylines and the RB26 can be impressive, but not that impressive. They're far from the be all and end all that a lot of people claim that they are.
07-01-2010, 08:46 AM
#138
I can see that Vtec engine are technically excellent, but I've never been a fan. Despite what Chip says they never feel (to me) to be torquey low down, and by the time you're in the 'Vtec zone' you're invariably well over the speed limit.
I drove a new CTR back-to-back with a new RS and the CTR engine felt really weedy by comparisson. I also would rather drive fast in a relaxed manner, rather than having to screw the nuts off my car to get the most out of it. A Vtec wouldn't even be in my top 10 I'm afraid!
I drove a new CTR back-to-back with a new RS and the CTR engine felt really weedy by comparisson. I also would rather drive fast in a relaxed manner, rather than having to screw the nuts off my car to get the most out of it. A Vtec wouldn't even be in my top 10 I'm afraid!
07-01-2010, 08:59 AM
#139
Thats what people miss, they dont feel less torquey at the bottom end cause they have anything less than a normal engine, its just because they have so much more up top, so keeping it in a low gear and revving it makes for much more rapid progress than on a normal engine, so makes it feel like harder work slogging it out in the midrange.
Much like my nova engine feels flat off boost, but never used to feel flat when it had the XE in it years ago, even though its actually got as much torque now when off boost (more in fact in most places) as it had when it had an XE in it, the reason it feels flat now off boost now though is because its now got over 300bhp extra when it is on boost and you very quickly get used to that so it feels flat without it!
I drove a new CTR back-to-back with a new RS and the CTR engine felt really weedy by comparisson. I also would rather drive fast in a relaxed manner, rather than having to screw the nuts off my car to get the most out of it. A Vtec wouldn't even be in my top 10 I'm afraid!
No shit sherlock, whats your next revelation that v8's feel quite good too?
07-01-2010, 09:42 AM
#142
I can see that Vtec engine are technically excellent, but I've never been a fan. Despite what Chip says they never feel (to me) to be torquey low down, and by the time you're in the 'Vtec zone' you're invariably well over the speed limit.
I drove a new CTR back-to-back with a new RS and the CTR engine felt really weedy by comparisson. I also would rather drive fast in a relaxed manner, rather than having to screw the nuts off my car to get the most out of it. A Vtec wouldn't even be in my top 10 I'm afraid!
I drove a new CTR back-to-back with a new RS and the CTR engine felt really weedy by comparisson. I also would rather drive fast in a relaxed manner, rather than having to screw the nuts off my car to get the most out of it. A Vtec wouldn't even be in my top 10 I'm afraid!
i wonder why ? surely you should be comparing the CTR to an ST and then the RS to the mugen FN1? in which case you would change your mind baring in mind it was nearly 3 seconds seconds quicker round bedford then the RS
07-01-2010, 09:46 AM
#143
............
R13B Suzuki Engine from the JDM Suzuki Cultus ( Swift ) in 1994 was Natrually aspirated and........144bhp per litre!!!!! Beat that Vtec boys
Thats awesome.
Thats awesome.
07-01-2010, 09:53 AM
#144
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've turbo'd 180k mile Honda's, there actually better for it. We run 1 bar of boost on a large turbo. They show 16 bar on a compression test!
I'd have to say the Honda B series, you can run double the stock power, which is 100bhp per litre anyway! Then make it 200bhp per litre 20 years down the line! Designed in the late 60's IIRC made in the 80's.
I meant to ask this years ago and might start a thread. I was very young in the late 80's but remember the Sierra Cosworth as been a very fast car. When you look back. a CRX b16 will surely have given them a VERY good run for there money. I.e. 150bhp 850kgs! Vs 204hp and 1250kg's.
I'd have to say the Honda B series, you can run double the stock power, which is 100bhp per litre anyway! Then make it 200bhp per litre 20 years down the line! Designed in the late 60's IIRC made in the 80's.
I meant to ask this years ago and might start a thread. I was very young in the late 80's but remember the Sierra Cosworth as been a very fast car. When you look back. a CRX b16 will surely have given them a VERY good run for there money. I.e. 150bhp 850kgs! Vs 204hp and 1250kg's.
07-01-2010, 10:00 AM
#145
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also been a smaller engine 1300cc, its much harder to make the high BHP per litre. Smaller engines have lower pistons speed's and less side loading factors. While you can of cause increase the bore you also increase weight, so this isn't an option either. Still its amazing. Most impressive engine bhp per litre wise IMO has to be the s2000. Its a 2 litre and produces 120bhp per litre. While still been mass produced. Undergoing no real changes in 10 years of production!
If you took a normal engine like a zetec, and gave it about 30-40% more torque at the high end of the rev range to bring it up to being on a par with a vtec engine in terms of specific output, then it would also feel not torquey at the bottom end, even though its lost nothing.
Thats what people miss, they dont feel less torquey at the bottom end cause they have anything less than a normal engine, its just because they have so much more up top, so keeping it in a low gear and revving it makes for much more rapid progress than on a normal engine, so makes it feel like harder work slogging it out in the midrange.
Much like my nova engine feels flat off boost, but never used to feel flat when it had the XE in it years ago, even though its actually got as much torque now when off boost (more in fact in most places) as it had when it had an XE in it, the reason it feels flat now off boost now though is because its now got over 300bhp extra when it is on boost and you very quickly get used to that so it feels flat without it!
A 2.0 4 cylinder N/A engine felt weedy compared to a 2.5 5 cyl turbo?
No shit sherlock, whats your next revelation that v8's feel quite good too?
Thats what people miss, they dont feel less torquey at the bottom end cause they have anything less than a normal engine, its just because they have so much more up top, so keeping it in a low gear and revving it makes for much more rapid progress than on a normal engine, so makes it feel like harder work slogging it out in the midrange.
Much like my nova engine feels flat off boost, but never used to feel flat when it had the XE in it years ago, even though its actually got as much torque now when off boost (more in fact in most places) as it had when it had an XE in it, the reason it feels flat now off boost now though is because its now got over 300bhp extra when it is on boost and you very quickly get used to that so it feels flat without it!
A 2.0 4 cylinder N/A engine felt weedy compared to a 2.5 5 cyl turbo?
No shit sherlock, whats your next revelation that v8's feel quite good too?
Last edited by RickyLee53; 07-01-2010 at 10:12 AM.
07-01-2010, 10:30 AM
#147
............
I'm not sure how many were made though, they probably weren't mass production like the Honda.
Also been a smaller engine 1300cc, its much harder to make the high BHP per litre. Smaller engines have lower pistons speed's and less side loading factors. While you can of cause increase the bore you also increase weight, so this isn't an option either. Still its amazing. Most impressive engine bhp per litre wise IMO has to be the s2000. Its a 2 litre and produces 120bhp per litre. While still been mass produced. Undergoing no real changes in 10 years of production!
.
Also been a smaller engine 1300cc, its much harder to make the high BHP per litre. Smaller engines have lower pistons speed's and less side loading factors. While you can of cause increase the bore you also increase weight, so this isn't an option either. Still its amazing. Most impressive engine bhp per litre wise IMO has to be the s2000. Its a 2 litre and produces 120bhp per litre. While still been mass produced. Undergoing no real changes in 10 years of production!
.
07-01-2010, 10:41 AM
#148
07-01-2010, 10:58 AM
#150
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its an amazing feat. But most bike engines produce 170+bhp. There are bike engines in Caterhams and they've probably sold as many as the swifts have. I doubt the swift would do 200,000 miles. The S2000 is coming upto 100k with nothing but oil changes. It's never had a SINGLE component replaced. No cambelt or anything.
07-01-2010, 11:02 AM
#152
............
I agree they are in the list to be counted as the best engine IMO , but for comparative purposes I was talking about reciprocating 4 stroke piston engines, as there arent may other rotary engines to compare to, it may well be fucking shit compared to one Honda could make.
07-01-2010, 11:09 AM
#153
............
[quote=RickyLee53;4630313]I've never seen 1 Clearly It cannot exist then, I apologize , if it wasn't snowing I could go out in the S2000. I'm sorry I appear to have misunderstood the thread title, I must have missed the part where it says 'best ever car engine that is available right now to RickyLee' Have you ever seen a swift with the said engine? Yes, altho at the time I didnt realise what it was, however you are free to view one on youtube any time you like
Its an amazing feat. But most bike engines produce 170+bhp. I appear to have misunderstood the title of the thread where it says car engine, i apologize There are bike engines in Caterhams and they've probably sold as many as the swifts have. By your own definition its a bike engine, i refer you again to the thread title which I keep on misunderstanding I doubt the swift would do 200,000 miles. I doubt at Caterham with a bike engine would either, i dont really see your point The S2000 is coming upto 100k with nothing but oil changes. It's never had a SINGLE component replaced. No cambelt or anything.Awesome, only 22bhp per litre to go till it produces as much power per litre as the Suzuki engine [/quote]
Thanks for your input, i'll bear it in mind when I formulate my opinion on what I consider to be the best car engine of all time
Its an amazing feat. But most bike engines produce 170+bhp. I appear to have misunderstood the title of the thread where it says car engine, i apologize There are bike engines in Caterhams and they've probably sold as many as the swifts have. By your own definition its a bike engine, i refer you again to the thread title which I keep on misunderstanding I doubt the swift would do 200,000 miles. I doubt at Caterham with a bike engine would either, i dont really see your point The S2000 is coming upto 100k with nothing but oil changes. It's never had a SINGLE component replaced. No cambelt or anything.Awesome, only 22bhp per litre to go till it produces as much power per litre as the Suzuki engine [/quote]
Thanks for your input, i'll bear it in mind when I formulate my opinion on what I consider to be the best car engine of all time
Last edited by It's Czech Mate; 07-01-2010 at 11:11 AM.
07-01-2010, 11:34 AM
#154
I agree they are in the list to be counted as the best engine IMO , but for comparative purposes I was talking about reciprocating 4 stroke piston engines, as there arent may other rotary engines to compare to, it may well be fucking shit compared to one Honda could make.
for me its still the k20
07-01-2010, 11:54 AM
#155
............
i dont think this thread is about engines that are similar as people are comparing n/a to turbo's 2.0l to 2.5l etc, and from what you said because you thought the swift produced the best bhp per litre you thought that was the most impressive for you, so now surely you think the rx8 is the cream of the crop
for me its still the k20
for me its still the k20
As I said right back on page 1 the engine will be from a 'family' such as the YB or A series, or Lambo v12 thats been developed over time and many products and has made its mark in the automotive industry
I just highlighted the Swift engine in my latest post because people were quoting specific outputs and had overlooked THE most powerful 4 stroke petrol reciprocating piston car engine fitted in a production car, and I maintain that 185bhp from a production na 1.3 in 1994 is awesome and as an individual engine it takes some beating.
ps. it has VVT so is nearly a Vtec if that helps you like it better?
07-01-2010, 12:01 PM
#157
Wankel engines give unforgivable fuel economy, and their specific output figures arent directly comparable as they are effectively twice the capacity as they fire every revolution not every other revolution.
So essentially their specific output is actually far worse than most 4 strokes.
So essentially their specific output is actually far worse than most 4 strokes.
07-01-2010, 12:04 PM
#158
............
The constraint of mass production and being current is your personal constraint and not one of the thread in general unless I again have misread the thread title. I respect your opinion but in this instance I decline to agree with you.
07-01-2010, 12:06 PM
#159
............
I was saving that in case he mentioned it again cry: Hence they classed as a 2.6 in motorsport
