johnandhissaffy

iTrader: (1)

probably because i just think they are really good when they are tuned plus iv never seen much go wrong with them and in the right hands they are proper quick might be a better engine out there but i cant say a bmw engine coz never had one so only saying what i have had or been in

It's Czech Mate

Off topic, but they deliberately didnt. The duratec is piss easy to get to 200bhp in a format where it can still be a production daily driver

They didnt because they made it cheaper to insure and less thirsty than a CTR so it appealed to women and teens. Had they wanted to make it a revvy 220bhp firecracker they would have and could have.

Also had it been as fast as a CTR then they'd have had to up the game for the Focus ST to make it significantly better and ther would then have been no room for the FRS

t4 and greys

iTrader: (5)

hahahah jeez you guys a ford site and no-ones even mentioned the three simple letters that mean so much together

BDA




quite simply an awesome engine in all its guises inc bdt etc

got to be one of the best motors imho....

just look at how many motorsports cars run a variant ???

from rallying to road race





if i owned one would take pride of place in my living room on a marble plinth lmao

not sure her indoors or the kids be happy though

mmmmmm a nice wilcox for me !!!!!

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

What about the old school Merc diesel engines. Those things did about 300000 miles without breaking a single part apart from obviously the odd thing through wear and tear and servicing but those things just kept going on and on and on and never bloody stopped!!

Frenchy0204

Ofcourse you need it. My old mans Honda is pushing out 170hp, so it can move at a pretty decent pace if you wanted it to (although it's made for the corners to be honest) but whenever going up hills, you need to give it a fair bit of revs, where as most cars of the same power/engine capacity would be fine much lower down in the revs.

It's just something Vtecs have always done, as I'm sure you know. No torque low down. It's all at the upper end of the rev range.

It's Czech Mate

It was pretty shit as a road car engine though compared to the Pinto

However, in race trim agreed, awesome, but i'd include it in the fva/dfv category as essentially its an FVA with cambelts rather than gear driven cams

cossieDavedree

exactly ford have always been like that although now adays they are almos useless in the marketing / design and engineering department.

Remember ford spent loads of time money promoting the escort mk3/4 xr3's xr3is and rs turbos,, when at the the same time the better alternative car ( the fiesta at the time was never given the opportunity to become a better car in standard form).

And its just like the focus st170,, I think there was potential there for the engine to easily produce 200bhp, but ford at the time were promoting the focus rs, which as you say above would mean that the focus st170 couldnt be made that powerful as it would compete with the rs.

Ford never get the balance right.

the fiesta st500 should have come with 230 bhp for the price

It's Czech Mate

I think their sales figures would bear testimony to the fact they got it right, they are in the business of making money after all

Specialist cars dont sell in volumes, look at how few EVO's are sold compared to something more mild like a focus ST

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

BMW M62 is up there. It has some great features.

cossieDavedree

whilst what you say is true,
why not offer a tuned version, and a detuned version of the same car.

That way you have cover a wider spectrum of the market

Chip

iTrader: (3)

What a load of bollocks!

They have torque low down, they just have masses more at the top end.

That is the WHOLE point of VTEC, it matches the torque of a normal engine low down, but can wipe the floor with them further up.


Can you name any N/A petrol engines from another manufacturer that manage to generate significantly more torque from the same capacity, I certainly cant?

162lbft from the 2.0 engine in the S2000! Thats MASSIVE torque for a 2.0 engine IMHO!

Thats better than a 2.0 XE engine by 10%
Its better than a 2.0 Zetec by 20%

It's Czech Mate

Development cost
Marketing Cost
Production Cost

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Why don't you compare it to the ST170 2.0 as its probably more on par than the bog standard 2.0. Think they come in around 150-160ft.lbs

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well then why do they keep running at a loss year after year if they have got it right?
While toyota for example have only posted 1 year of losses in their entire history?


Its no good selling a bucket load of cheap shite cars if you lose money on every one you sell! Thats what Leyland did, and look at them now

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Thats still less than the honda lump.

And yet everyone accuses the honda engines all the time of having no torque, they are VERY torque engines though in reality if you are talking about equivalent capacity N/A lumps.

VEEDUBBED

I reckon the Fiat twin-cam mill deserves a mention here.

danneth

ill ask you again when would i think i wish i had torque here? i can go up any hill in any gear will pull up them in 4th or 5th no problem without been anywhere near vtec...

i can keep side by side with a focus ST from 5th gear pulling at 40mph, i can set off from my drive in 6th gear

i can nail it off a roundabout and keep with my mates 535d ( until it was mapped )

the no torque thing really isn't an issue ive had people go in mine ( there on passionford ) and the first thing they said was i cant believe how well it pulls i thought they had no torque

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

such as? (serious question, as I have no idea, but own one )

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

This is true not something I dismiss so easily its just the massive difference in power and torque people don't understand.

andrewg

honda type r for me

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Indeed, people REALLY miss the point.

you get as much (or more!) torque as any normal engine, but with a load more power on top.

Ive seen people on the vauxhall forum slagging off the B16 for having less torque than a 20XE for eample despite the slight bit of extra power it has versus the XE, but they seem to be missing the point they should be comparing it to the 16XE instead, which it beats on both fronts!

People are forever comparing smaller honda engines against larger engines from other manufacturers and then saying "its got no torque" of course it fucking hasnt when you compare a 1.6 against a 2.0, you cant beat the laws of physics

longun

need to mention crossflows,over 30 year old design,still tunable and fairly reliable.and some can still show a powerful yb etc a clean pair of heels at pod.

awaits a slagging off............ykt

cossieDavedree

exactly !

the lack of torque in honda theory dates to the b16's i think. But the civics were light.
The situation now is that the civics have put on a lot of weight and torque is more crucial now hence 2.0's . But I have driven an ep3 and I dont think it lacked torque at all,

Just like cosworth yb's get slated for headgaskets, (but its only the early 2wds that are prone, where the late spec 2wd head/4x4 head solved the main problem.

danneth

a man with knowledge and taste

Chip

iTrader: (3)

TBH, I view those cars as quick despite the engine not because of it

Stick a decent engine in there, they would be far quicker.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

The most impressive features to me are:

• 8 electronically-controlled throttle bodies. (One for each cylinder.)
• Double VANOS for both intake and both exhaust cams.
• G-force sensitive lubrication system with two scavenging pumps. (one oil pump for each cylinder bank)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Normally I would say "overly complicating things makes them unreliable" but in this case, clearly it doesnt!

Agreed, awesome engines!

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Now thats clever.

carcollector

Ford / Chevy V8
Bentley 4.5
Mopar Hemi V8
A-Series
Lotus Twincam
Ford BD Series from BDA to BDT
Ford YB (although not an entirely new development...)
Alfa Romeo 4 cylinder 1300, 1600, 1750 and 2000
Alfa Romeo V6 2.5
VW Beetle / Porsche 4 cylinder boxer
Porsche 6 cylinder boxer
Ferrari V12 Colombo
Fiat 4 cylinder 850, developed into the 1100 Fire over yrs

my 5 cents worth...and not complete in any way form or shape

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

ahh you mean S62 then? not the M62 of the 540?

saph4be

what is VANOS is it a type off variable valve timing?

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

VANOS (Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung) is variable valve timing

Frenchy0204

In all fairness, it is quite hard to find other other N/A 2.0 engines that are pushing out 250hp. I did find one though.

http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...ar/?car=119262

Just wanna say though, I don't think you get what i was trying to say mate. I don't mean they lack torque completely, or throughout the whole rev range. My point was that LOW DOWN (Read it again chip. LOW DOWN. Did you get that?), i personally think they don't have as much torque as other engines with the same ammount of cylinders and similar cylinder capacity, which is MY opinion. I'm sure either one of us could be proved wrong or right, but i suppose the only way to find out would be with graphs, but i truly don't give a fuck whether you agree with me or not, so I'm not gonna bother going into that ammount of detail.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree eh??

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes, sorry, because its in the M5 I called it the M. Clown that I am!

TurboShed

Did you post in the right thread mate?

JonnyBravo

In NO particular order but only from what I have experienced.

Evo engine
Vauxhall xe
Audi S2 5 cylinder 20v ( takes serious mileage both of mine are over 190k and mint )
Honda F20 (exactly why I purchased one for my Escort, in a league of its own for a 2litre)
Most of the M engines, mental even in stock trim.

All of the above IMO are amazing engines in stock form but most do also take well to be tuned.

Frenchy0204

What F20 was it mate? F20C out the S2000 or the F20B6 out of the Accord? Even if it was the B6, i bet it was still fantastic fun in a little escort, as the F20B6 is a very good engine.

Would love to see some pics if possible? Sounds amazing.

GARETH T

BMW V10 gotta be up there with the big boys

It's Czech Mate

JonnyBravo

Its a F20C, will be going in my Mk2 but currently I'm trying to clear my feet before carrying back on with the project.

Engine will be standard internals on Jenveys and also dry sumped, nothing outrageous but damn cheap to replace IF it ever went wrong where as the 3 previous engines I had planned for the car would of left me severly skint if they had of ever gone wrong.

A guy over on Turbosport is running one and after a few chats with him it seemed the right way of doing things as the cars cost enough to build without needing a 10k+ engine under the bonnet

If things go well there will be progress this year though...