whats the greatest car engine ever
#161
Wankel engines give unforgivable fuel economy, and their specific output figures arent directly comparable as they are effectively twice the capacity as they fire every revolution not every other revolution.
So essentially their specific output is actually far worse than most 4 strokes.
So essentially their specific output is actually far worse than most 4 strokes.
i know that i was just making a point that if its bhp per litre people are looking at then the rx8 wins, as its still officially 190bhp per litre
#162
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you dont do 9 sec 1/4s in a road car with paper figures. im refering to tweenies car btw just as an example.
an rb30 would be fairly evenly matched to a 2jz imo.
a big power 2jz supra will be my next car ive already decided that
#163
Guess that rules out all the the merc engine in the Zonda and Macca F1, the Ferarri engines and the Lambo v12 etc then?
The constraint of mass production and being current is your personal constraint and not one of the thread in general unless I again have misread the thread title. I respect your opinion but in this instance I decline to agree with you.
The constraint of mass production and being current is your personal constraint and not one of the thread in general unless I again have misread the thread title. I respect your opinion but in this instance I decline to agree with you.
doesn't rule any of them out, i just look at the overall picture for my opinion so when i look at the cost and the mpg of them sort of engines i dont believe them to be the best IMO
#164
............
so if your comparing bhp per litre the wankel is actually mediocre at best
#165
............
Must protect beloved vtec at all costs!
#167
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it will have less grunt as its 400cc smaller. fair comparison would be a rips rb30. paper figures lol
you dont do 9 sec 1/4s in a road car with paper figures. im refering to tweenies car btw just as an example.
an rb30 would be fairly evenly matched to a 2jz imo.
a big power 2jz supra will be my next car ive already decided that
you dont do 9 sec 1/4s in a road car with paper figures. im refering to tweenies car btw just as an example.
an rb30 would be fairly evenly matched to a 2jz imo.
a big power 2jz supra will be my next car ive already decided that
What car did they come in as ive not seen one as standard, ive only seen home made ones?
#168
#169
[QUOTE=Mondeo Man;4630479]Guess that rules out all the the merc engine in the Zonda and Macca F1, the Ferarri engines and the Lambo v12 etc then?
dont wanna be picky but aint it a BMW engine in the F1 not a Merc??
dont wanna be picky but aint it a BMW engine in the F1 not a Merc??
#170
............
Agreed, I explined incorrectly, although my point is right despite the incorrect explanation
#171
i dont need to protect it, its track record does the talking for this engine, like i said all IMO you dont have to get so stressed
#172
is awesome
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_RB_engine#RB30
#173
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Yes, but its shit compaired to the 2JZ in standard form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_RB_engine#RB30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_RB_engine#RB30
Wank engine in standard form, that scooby slayer fella saying they are awesome clearly has never encountered one or he would have forgotten all about it as quickly as I did
#175
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People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.
99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke
what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?
A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders
A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.
since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc
1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc
So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.
its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither
#176
............
no its not.
People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.
99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke
what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?
A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders
A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.
since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc
1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc
So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.
its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither
People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.
99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke
what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?
A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders
A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.
since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc
1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc
So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.
its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither
Last edited by It's Czech Mate; 07-01-2010 at 02:35 PM.
#177
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no its not.
People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.
99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke
what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?
A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders
A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.
since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc
1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc
So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.
its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither
People really have trouble understanding what a rotary actually is.
99% of engines you see in day to day life are either 2 stroke or 4 stroke
what a rotary is, is a 6 stroke, ever wonder how a 1.3litre can spin up a 1000bhp turbo?
A 4 stroke car engine does 2 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders
A rotary does 3 revolutions to fill and empty all its cylinders.
since each cylinder is 654cc, thats 3 x 654cc = 1962cc
1962cc x 2 rotors = 3924cc
So a rotary 13b engine is a 3924cc 6 stroke engine.
its just there are no other 6 strokes to compare it to, if your only using 4 of its strokes to compare to a piston cart engine then fine, but then i may aswell say to compare a car engine to a 2 stroke engine should never be done neither
It doesnt have strokes, it roates, hence it is called a ROTARY engine
Stroke = going up, then coming down again
If by stroke, you mean phase of engine transition, then it has 4 (intake, compression, power, exhaust), as it is bascially a repackaged 4 cylinder engine in the first place, thats the whole idea of them!
And it all happens during 1 revolution as far as im aware, not during 3 as you are saying, my understanding of how it happens is like in these images:
INTAKE
COMPRESSION
POWER
EXHAUST
The eccentric output shaft turns 3 times for each rotation of the actual rotor itself, so maybe that is what is confusing you?
ie like so:
Last edited by Chip; 07-01-2010 at 02:28 PM.
#178
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My M3 V8 4.0l engine is an absolute BEAUTY. It is so clean and revs so sweetly to 8,300/8,400 rpm. The first time I took my mate out, he thought I was shifting early as it sounded so unstressed..
Needless to say the V10 from the M5, is basically the same engine with 25% more which makes it even better, but I don't have one.. cos the rest of the car was crap.
Cheers
RW
Needless to say the V10 from the M5, is basically the same engine with 25% more which makes it even better, but I don't have one.. cos the rest of the car was crap.
Cheers
RW
#180
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http://www.ripsracing.com/products.html
#181
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yeah in standard form but they dont take much and dont cost much either.
http://www.ripsracing.com/products.html
http://www.ripsracing.com/products.html
You have to change the entire head casting
swap to the multivalve setup with another 12 valves
add an extra cam
change both the manifolds
change the management
There is hardly anything of the actual rb30 left by the time you have finished, just the bottom end basically!
what you are saying is like saying a transit pinto is a good engine cause you can get 500bhp out of a YB
Last edited by Chip; 07-01-2010 at 04:04 PM.
#182
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no one has disputed that mate. i was just making a point to reply to a remark that rb26 engines are wank, if somebody thinks that then they havnt experienced a good one. ive been in a 2 r33s and they didnt impress me at all, but a proper built / specced rb will impress.
#183
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They dont take much to modify?
You have to change the entire head casting
swap to the multivalve setup with another 12 valves
add an extra cam
change both the manifolds
change the management
There is hardly anything of the actual rb30 left by the time you have finished, just the bottom end basically!
what you are saying is like saying a transit pinto is a good engine cause you can get 500bhp out of a YB
You have to change the entire head casting
swap to the multivalve setup with another 12 valves
add an extra cam
change both the manifolds
change the management
There is hardly anything of the actual rb30 left by the time you have finished, just the bottom end basically!
what you are saying is like saying a transit pinto is a good engine cause you can get 500bhp out of a YB
sometimes chip you can be hard work lol
you just put the rips rb30 bottom end direct replacement for an rb26.
as an example i could do it on mine. just sell my bottom end and use the rb30. dont compare the transit that stupid.
its just getting the capacity up in line with a 2jz.
think of it more as just an rb26 bored out to 3000 cc.
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 07-01-2010 at 04:42 PM.
#185
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It doesnt have strokes, it roates, hence it is called a ROTARY engine
Stroke = going up, then coming down again
If by stroke, you mean phase of engine transition, then it has 4 (intake, compression, power, exhaust), as it is bascially a repackaged 4 cylinder engine in the first place, thats the whole idea of them!
And it all happens during 1 revolution as far as im aware, not during 3 as you are saying, my understanding of how it happens is like in these images:
INTAKE
COMPRESSION
POWER
EXHAUST
The eccentric output shaft turns 3 times for each rotation of the actual rotor itself, so maybe that is what is confusing you?
ie like so:
Stroke = going up, then coming down again
If by stroke, you mean phase of engine transition, then it has 4 (intake, compression, power, exhaust), as it is bascially a repackaged 4 cylinder engine in the first place, thats the whole idea of them!
And it all happens during 1 revolution as far as im aware, not during 3 as you are saying, my understanding of how it happens is like in these images:
INTAKE
COMPRESSION
POWER
EXHAUST
The eccentric output shaft turns 3 times for each rotation of the actual rotor itself, so maybe that is what is confusing you?
ie like so:
on that moving diagram there is 1 spark per rotation, would you class that like a 2 stroke then per rotor housing, or because theres 2 housings that run on an eccentric shaft you would class it as 4 stroke....i use the term stroke loosely but i can use rotation is you like
if you bolt two 2 stroke engines together firing them oppositly, thats classes as a 4 stroke i assume
#187
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didnt race here as the turbos were already banned.
2jz gte rb26dett cosworth yb are all up there in my book, affordable highly tunable engines that the avarage man can comfortably afford to own and play with supercars in.
my eyes were truly opened when i drove a properly specced rb26dett.
#188
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thanks chip, it was something i read a while ago but wasnt sure where it was to copy and paste it so just wrote it off the cuff.
on that moving diagram there is 1 spark per rotation, would you class that like a 2 stroke then per rotor housing, or because theres 2 housings that run on an eccentric shaft you would class it as 4 stroke....i use the term stroke loosely but i can use rotation is you like
if you bolt two 2 stroke engines together firing them oppositly, thats classes as a 4 stroke i assume
on that moving diagram there is 1 spark per rotation, would you class that like a 2 stroke then per rotor housing, or because theres 2 housings that run on an eccentric shaft you would class it as 4 stroke....i use the term stroke loosely but i can use rotation is you like
if you bolt two 2 stroke engines together firing them oppositly, thats classes as a 4 stroke i assume
class the one revolution of the rotor to one revolution of the crank in a 2 stroke.
or not i really dont know tbh !
its been said to me several times though that that a 1.3 rotary is basically a 2.6.
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 07-01-2010 at 05:51 PM.
#189
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sometimes chip you can be hard work lol
you just put the rips rb30 bottom end direct replacement for an rb26.
as an example i could do it on mine. just sell my bottom end and use the rb30. dont compare the transit that stupid.
its just getting the capacity up in line with a 2jz.
think of it more as just an rb26 bored out to 3000 cc.
you just put the rips rb30 bottom end direct replacement for an rb26.
as an example i could do it on mine. just sell my bottom end and use the rb30. dont compare the transit that stupid.
its just getting the capacity up in line with a 2jz.
think of it more as just an rb26 bored out to 3000 cc.
To get 600bhp out of the supra, you dont even need to take the engine out of the car!
#191
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Its a shame emissions are making it harder to develop.
The 4 stroke has had 100+ years from every imaginable car and bike and engine company to get to where it is, and the rotary makes more power for the same amount of space/weight taken up, and after only a few decades from just a few companies.
IF rotaries had been thought of first, 1000bhp would seem tame by now!
#192
I would think that the Audi 5 cylinder engine must feature quite well up the list. 30 years since it was first used. Since then there has never been a top level rally championship won without turbo power. In 1984 they were producing over 300bhp in standard road car trim. The engine won group B multiple times, same with pikes peak, and then dominated the imsa race series in America. Can be tuned to well over 1000bhp without the need for liners or anything like that. Lastly and most importantly they make an awesome sound! The engine design then taken on by Volvo and Ford.
Last edited by G60rallye; 07-01-2010 at 10:49 PM.
#195
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its no different to me comparing my engine to any of the ybs ive had, the rb its miles better but id be shot down in flames if i said that on here because its not a fair comparison, which is my point. you cant compare a yb to an rb26dett because theres no way to convert the yb to make it comparable.
but to compare a rb26dett to a 2jz gte just use rb30 bottom end and you have a fair comparisson imo.
now surely chip you can now see my point ? lol
#197
well what is it then Dan, it moved ford on from the old cvh, imagine a focus running a cvh, pretty shite i think. the zetec was and is a ultra reliabke smooth revvy excellent engine and as said already at the time not many other manafacturers were using engines that were so cheap to buy and could do as many miles and have the tuning potential as the zetec the vauxhall xe was good but not as reliable when mileage is high, i have seen a friends 2.0 si 1994 mondeo do 421k on the ogriginal engine yes and that was because of oil change every 6k and good quality parts used when sevicing and repairing etc, i cant think of any other manafactuer who built such a reliable engine in 1993, even bmw 6 pots would struggle above 250k. yes vtecs etc are better but they have never been as cheap to buy as a zetec, and for imo the older zetecs are in there prime right now because they can be picked up for pennies and can be modified to super car slayers relativly cheaply using parts from other models (ie focus rs manifold and juicy turbo's etc). not saying its the best but if it was not for the zetec the focus would have never been such a huge success but being the editor of a ford magazine you should know all this already
#198
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Can only really go off things I have driven personally:
Audi 5 Cyl 20v RS2 engine
Audi RS4 V8 is a peach
Audi RS6 V10 TT
Audi V12 TDi is amazing but not "fun"
Porsche 997 GT3RS Flat 6 is just WOW
Some of my favourites, could go on forever though!
Audi 5 Cyl 20v RS2 engine
Audi RS4 V8 is a peach
Audi RS6 V10 TT
Audi V12 TDi is amazing but not "fun"
Porsche 997 GT3RS Flat 6 is just WOW
Some of my favourites, could go on forever though!
#199
the st170 engine is a glorified zetec, I hadf a play with a1998 civic type r the 187 bhp model, on intial pull off he edged away i then caught up at about 40 and pulled past him then in a flash he was gone into the distance ahead of me, those old jdm type r's are awesome little cars and obviously dont match the torque of 170 bhp 2.0 engine but definatly a screaming engine and i would prefer one of those over the newer civic type, a pretty wicked car over all. I was at a mates garage when a chav came in in a matt black old f reg civic 1.4 auto lowered to the ground almost, it was not a vtec but had 2 carbs and i was absolutly shocked when he left and floored it, i was not expecting it to go half as well as it did.
still i think the zetec set a benchmark for all manafactuerers
still i think the zetec set a benchmark for all manafactuerers
#200
Advanced PassionFord User
imo the rotary engine is more of a 1 stroke engine. Awesome idea in theory, just not in practice. Great engines for me are:
BL/BMC A-Series - Such a clever design, probably the first production pushrod engine that made 100bhp/litre achievable.
Chevy Small Block V8 - Legend in it's own right.
BMW 2002 turbo engine - Purely for the fact it was the first production turbocharged engine (was it also the same block used in the old BMW F1 engines?)
BMW E46 3.2 - Usable, production 100bhp/litre engine
as well as the CVH, YB, R5GTT engine, Fiat 1.3 turbo i.e engine etc... for proving that turbocharged engines could be (kind of) reliable in daily drivers
BL/BMC A-Series - Such a clever design, probably the first production pushrod engine that made 100bhp/litre achievable.
Chevy Small Block V8 - Legend in it's own right.
BMW 2002 turbo engine - Purely for the fact it was the first production turbocharged engine (was it also the same block used in the old BMW F1 engines?)
BMW E46 3.2 - Usable, production 100bhp/litre engine
as well as the CVH, YB, R5GTT engine, Fiat 1.3 turbo i.e engine etc... for proving that turbocharged engines could be (kind of) reliable in daily drivers