Mark_w

With the well known problems with cosworth yb head gaskets throughout its life,i was thinking about the cosworth alloy blocks that are being cast now and wondered why they have not thought of casting the complete block and head in one unit only down sides i can think of is comp ratio problems,possibly adjustable through piston/crank height and having engine out to do valve work but thats hardly every month is it? surely the haedgasket was only put there to achieve ease of maintenance and is not the ideal???
If anyone markets this now i want a cut
mark

The DIVA

iTrader: (3)

Interesting concept but it cant be done.....you could not get the pistons past the crankcase webs to fit them into the bores...

BigChuck

how would you machine the head to seat the valves?

Dan

How are other billet blocks made and assembled?

rapidcossie

Im i right in saying that if the head and block were cast out of the same alloy that you wouldnt need a HG due to them expanding at the same rate?

like the old air cooled 911's.

??

Mark_w

I am sure they could fit pistons and machine the valve seats with the technology today putting a head gasket in is surely only done for ease of maintenance,and in a ideal world a one piece unit must be best are some F1 engines like this???

mark

Dan

Was this a Stella fuelled idea?

Come on, anyone know more about it?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

or cast them in one bit, then chop the head casting off?
or even have a totaly seperate crank cradle so that you could bolt the mains in afterwards?
or even have the head casing and top portion of the block in one bit (you can get the valves in no sweat) and then have a liner for the bottom part, thus removing the need for having a head gasket altogether?

or just machinging them properly like one of them old school bugatti's where they didn't even have a head gasket due to him making the mating surfaces perfectly mating?

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

you would have no "weak link" if something were to go wrong though, its would be game over for the entire engine would it not

Mark_w

It was a 15 pint magners idea but i think its very good

mark

focusv8

If it made commercial sense to do it, it would have been done already. There have been billions of engines made over the years, using a separate head must be the best way of initial production.

Engine makers aren't too concerned over maintenance nowadays as most heads are never removed once fitted.

.

Mark_w

so i am right that its done for cost and not a ideal setup

mark

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

focusv8

I bet if you search through patents someone has already got it covered and is choosing not to use it.

.

Mark_w

you do not need a weak link a head gasket is not there to provide a weak link,its there as the manafacturers made the engine 2 piece for ease of maintenance and cost...what i am saying is why do specialist engines not go down this route??? cosworth could have a 1 piece unit cast in alloy,or even in cast iron and it would cure a lot of problems

mark

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

What happens if the cooling system fails?


one piece iron engine would do fuck all for handling, and all alloy would mean a an engine that could take no where near the power of a cast iron bottom end


you do realise that the Cosworth YB s not a specialist engine as such, its a ford pinto that cosworth did a N/A 16v head conversion for originally. It was only ford mototrsport that asked them about turbocharging it to produce an engine for their touring car program.

Mark_w

I do realise this,i did not mean the yb in particular,just any high performance engine

Mark

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I never ever get H/G failure problems so where does that come from?

Mark_w

I am glad you answered martin as you would have a answer if there was a good one. not refering to your engine martin,but would it not be good if your engine was one piece alloy construction and did not have to worry about long studding,Ł400 headgaskets etc ??? only downside is work on valves???

Rover k series would have benefited from it

mark

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

interesting to hear how Martin would have linered his block with a spacer place to create a tall block if one piece?

krypton

Hears a few pics off a hart mono block i found over on another site

http://lancerregister.com/attachment...1&d=1203901499



http://lancerregister.com/attachment...1&d=1203901609

Mark_w

Now were talking

mark

krypton

According to the guy that posted them pics it runs over 1000hp an the valves go in from underneath. He has posted a few nice pics

Mark_w

Thats exactly how i imagined it,i was not thinking costs,just the ultimate setup and surely that is the best way to have a engine???

mark

Mark_w

The yb has had more than its fair share,every cosworth i have had with full history has had a headgasket in the first 2 years of its life

mark

Big Will_

Me and Diva had this chat over a pizza and a brew the other week - scary thing is we were both sober lol.

In essence it could be done - the question is - would the benefits outweigh the costs...

It'd probably have to be machined from billet... and that ain't cheap!

Mark_w

Could it not be cast in one piece like the new blocks??? I know it wont be cheap but surely it has to be the ultimate?

mark

Big Will_

Then you get into the problem we're having now with 200 blocks...

Moulds.

For what it costs to produce the moulds in the first place - machining from billet would be cheaper.

Not only that - billet material is less likely to contain defects - castings can pick up imperfections/air bubbles etc. due to process nature...

Also the billet machining can encompass the final stages of the process anyway - if you cast the monoblock/head - you'd still have to machine things like valve guides, valve seats, combustion chamber, bore hone, main cap line bore etc. Might as well have it done while it's in the CNC mill

THEYGOTMETOO

The monoblock concept and implementation is 100+ years old!! If it could be done all that time ago it can certainly be done now.

Although its a good idea, with the reliable options for head to block sealing that are now available, with all but a few exceptions I can't really see any need for it to be honest - massive expensive for very little gain.


Incidentally, machining one of those out of billet is easily possible - no problem at all. On the downside the CAD work and CAM programming alone would cost a fortune. The machining itself would take hours .... again costing a fortune. Considering the limited size and niche nature of the target market, I find it unlikely that it will ever happen.

Stavros

The monoblock thing is well old, plenty of race engines have done this in the past.

Pointless turning a YB into a monoblock tho, may as well start from scratch or use a monoblock engine already made, there are plenty of 4cyl 16valve turbo monoblock engines in existance, right back to the old Offy Indycar turbo engines from early 70s etc.

Det kills HGs, they dont blow for fun. Map your car properly and they wont be a big issue. Even most the F1 Turbo cars, pushing coming on 1000bhp per litre in qualifying, had seperate heads n blocks, as do top fuel dragsters, and other stupid bhp per litre engines.

And you want a HG in most cases, as mentioned, its the deliberate weak link. Ie the det just blows your HG before it melts your pistons....

Were those pics taken at Bluesprint in Essex? Looks like the kinds stuff he always had down there when I used to go down there.

krypton

Stavos- I couldn't tell you whare the pics were took i got them off another forum. http://lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=191095 Here is the link to the other pics that were posted up along with them ones. Maybe you mite know the place by some of the pics?