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10-01-2008, 12:46 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
Why is the cage awful? 
Its there to do a job...you wernt allowed weld in cages when this started life....so its a proper spec cage....cant be any less safe than the weld in ones.
Mike Rainbird..thats what he told me..but thinking on i was doin 50mph in top gear at 2000rpm according to the follower who speed trapped me
..also the car has only ever run the t3 as it was mapped for that with the 34mm restrictor...yes greys is an odd choice but then it was 1994 and runs fine...so less of the assumptions mr rainbird.
Its there to do a job...you wernt allowed weld in cages when this started life....so its a proper spec cage....cant be any less safe than the weld in ones.Mike Rainbird..thats what he told me..but thinking on i was doin 50mph in top gear at 2000rpm according to the follower who speed trapped me
..also the car has only ever run the t3 as it was mapped for that with the 34mm restrictor...yes greys is an odd choice but then it was 1994 and runs fine...so less of the assumptions mr rainbird.
.
10-01-2008, 12:49 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Nothing to do with me.
I was just pointing out where he was talking bollocks........ again.
I was just pointing out where he was talking bollocks........ again.
..pon your right nowt to do with you..bollocks you say...ok i have a show cage..you da man with the proper car that you aint got and never finished
...yeah right you could have got an msa logbook My car was MSA logbooked, and built to Ford manual spec. Yours is more of a home build on the cheap effort
Do you actually understand what you're talking about or is this another "500bhp because it has a sticker on the boot" effort?
10-01-2008, 01:08 PM
#43
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So Pon are you saying the early Sapp rally cars didnt have bolt in cages?
Also if it was a diy car do you think they would go to the trouble of making and bolting in on the WELDED floor mounts and cutting thru the bulk head just to bolt to turret?..Surely welding it would be far easier than making the correct fittings....
Just ask a pro pon..you just had the later shell which had an msa logbook..but after your messing about you'd need to re msa it no doubt.
..ps 1994 was when it was built and registered its not a 1.6L
Also if it was a diy car do you think they would go to the trouble of making and bolting in on the WELDED floor mounts and cutting thru the bulk head just to bolt to turret?..Surely welding it would be far easier than making the correct fittings....
Just ask a pro pon..you just had the later shell
which had an msa logbook..but after your messing about you'd need to re msa it no doubt...ps 1994 was when it was built and registered its not a 1.6L
10-01-2008, 01:11 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by CossieRich
Still doesnt explain why you removed the pics and description Phil. Would be a good thread this
10-01-2008, 01:13 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
Originally Posted by CossieRich
Still doesnt explain why you removed the pics and description Phil. Would be a good thread this
10-01-2008, 01:49 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
So Pon are you saying the early Sapp rally cars didnt have bolt in cages?
But proper ones would have been welded, when built for teams, Ford themselves etc......
At the end of the day, it was probably a privateer car built to do single venue stuff, so it's no surprise.
Perfect for you, but I would never have a car with a cage like that. Since you're doing nothing other than turning it into a show car, then it's fine for what you want, even if it is a little on the pikey side!
10-01-2008, 01:50 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
..ian i noted you saw my post...
..what is your take on the cage..pon says its a show one..
..what is your take on the cage..pon says its a show one..
I said it was an approved cage, but not one built as per the Ford manual.
Much in the same way that the 205 we rallied had a bolt in cage, and was perfectly approved.
You were going on about it being a Ford motorsport car, when in fact it's nothing of the sort.
10-01-2008, 01:56 PM
#53
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Perfect for you, but I would never have a car with a cage like that
10-01-2008, 01:57 PM
#54
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10-01-2008, 02:01 PM
#57
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Phil,
To be honest pal, and I never get embroiled in the bun fights on here, its horses for courses....A car of that age will have been many different things from the first build to present.
Most rally cars dont end their lives as they begin, some get developed, some have the specs diluted as people selling them remove all the trick parts.
The fact it may have been a grp'n' saph, would suggest the build spec/budget would not have been suffcient to install a weld in cage. I know you understand a weld in cage is better, torsional strength is added and the package becomes safer in the event of an accident, but lots of rally cars both old and new still use FIA approved bolt in cages with great sucess.
The cage looks to me like an OMP or Sparco bolt in, both which will provide some additional stiffness to the car and provide safety in the event of an accident.
The rest of the spec looks very similar to the first saph I ever rallied, the car performed fantasically well on both gravel and tar, and we did actually do the Network Rally in it....although by then it did have a dog box in.....
The car was very reliable and fairly competitive, obviously time has moved on and a similar specced subaru would probs be faster on a stage, but not at Ł4.5K......
All in all pal, you've got yourself a little bargain, i'd go and put it to the job for which it was built.....
If you need any pointers that way pal, give me a shout...
Ian
To be honest pal, and I never get embroiled in the bun fights on here, its horses for courses....A car of that age will have been many different things from the first build to present.
Most rally cars dont end their lives as they begin, some get developed, some have the specs diluted as people selling them remove all the trick parts.
The fact it may have been a grp'n' saph, would suggest the build spec/budget would not have been suffcient to install a weld in cage. I know you understand a weld in cage is better, torsional strength is added and the package becomes safer in the event of an accident, but lots of rally cars both old and new still use FIA approved bolt in cages with great sucess.
The cage looks to me like an OMP or Sparco bolt in, both which will provide some additional stiffness to the car and provide safety in the event of an accident.
The rest of the spec looks very similar to the first saph I ever rallied, the car performed fantasically well on both gravel and tar, and we did actually do the Network Rally in it....although by then it did have a dog box in.....
The car was very reliable and fairly competitive, obviously time has moved on and a similar specced subaru would probs be faster on a stage, but not at Ł4.5K......
All in all pal, you've got yourself a little bargain, i'd go and put it to the job for which it was built.....
If you need any pointers that way pal, give me a shout...
Ian
10-01-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesw
Damn did not get to see the pics, is it really the tub of rust everyone is saying??
Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
..yes it is 
Thank you for clearing that up!
10-01-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
Perfect for you, but I would never have a car with a cage like that
Have you got the Group A build manual?
Or the Ford motorsport "How to prepare the sierra for motorsport" manuals.
Open them up and have a look, and then show me a bolt in cage..........
Why would I need to see it properly? I can see enough from the pics Personally, I would want a cage that run with the B-pillar, was properly triangulated, and welded in.
But as I said before, it will be perfect for you, as you don't want to do anything proper with it.
All I was doing was correcting your misinformation regarding it being a total car.
Where's the double skinned footwells? Weld in cage? Seam welding?
All of the parts to build your rally car were available from Ford at the time. You could buy any part off the shelf, and fit it yourself, hence why I can see you're got the 909 engine mounts. That's also why you get varying specs between plenty of these sorts of privateer cars.
Total car though? Please........
10-01-2008, 03:52 PM
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..pon i dont get your hate or critisism of a more than capable car..just cause it dont meet to your specification..which should be very low and not even bother with a rollcage as you never used your special motorsport saff what a waste..atleast i drove mine 160miles!
Its a rally car a cheap one at that but fully ready to go racing..yet you have something to say which is total stupid.."i wouldnt drive that car with a bolt in cage..."..Who the fuck are you?..oh track guru in a fake Ferrari
what a waste..atleast i drove mine 160miles!Its a rally car a cheap one at that but fully ready to go racing..yet you have something to say which is total stupid.."i wouldnt drive that car with a bolt in cage..."..Who the fuck are you?..oh track guru in a fake Ferrari
10-01-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
..according to paul NYRS the early motorsport shells had bolt in cages ala this. ...was told weld in cages wernt yet used?
...was told weld in cages wernt yet used? the very first sapphire shell that boreham built had a weld in cage!
not all the none works cars had weld ins though,many many ones had bolt in cages,lots of sapps had 3 door cages fitted in them also,easily noticed mind!!
a bolt in is the minimum required for ralling,but personally i would rather a weld in everytime,there are some really nasty bolt in cages out there and the sparco/omp tend to be these.
but that car looked a decent price,as long as it was what was addvertised,ive noticed the same guy addvertising alot of standard parts as group A or group A parts as WRC.probly not his intention to mislead,just perhaps does not yet know whats what in the ford rally car parts world.
10-01-2008, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosch_Dealer
Originally Posted by CossieRich
Still doesnt explain why you removed the pics and description Phil. Would be a good thread this
and for the record i like the car looks a weapon mate ,wheels look pants tho a set of chromadora,s would look the bee,s bollox imo
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