XRdodgybird

Can anyone confirm or otherwise.... if your vehicle came fitted with run flat tyres... does it void the insurance not to have them on in the event of an accident?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Unlikely that would stick, but depends on how its worded I guess.

wirralphil

would the car matter chip??

iansoutham

Not really, most late Mini's that come into my place have had their standard run-flats replaced with normal tyres.

Is recommended though that if you do change them, @ minimum, do an axle set, or better, all 4.

And remember to invest in a tin of tyre-weld.

Remember as well that a run-flat can only be used in that condition for about 60 miles, then they are meant to be scrapped. Also, they should not be repaired (that is the official line anyway)

dojj

iTrader: (3)

a tricky one

it all depends on the wording in the insurance form, if you tell them that the car comes with run flat tyres but you are using normal tyres then they should bas the quote on that

and as long as it's in writing they can't use it as a get out clause

the baiscs are that the car will not be modified from factor specifications and this is what you do when you change the tyres from runflats to normal

tabetha

Total crap scare stories put out by insurers.
Imagine the scene, a 20 year old cossie has an accident and they get denied the claim because it does not have DUNLOP D40's on it!!, get real, or the NON FORD EXHAUST, just a cheapo aftermarket one.
For any insurer to decline a payout they have to show that they were misled as to either the risk or that any mods contributed to the accident.
Do you know a single cossie for example on a FORD exhaust system, or Original tyres ?
What would they prefer 20 year old crap tyres, or bang up to date decent ones.
In short they wouldn't have a hope in hell of refusing payout under these conditions, BUT that is not to say they won't try, it on!!
tabetha

dojj

iTrader: (3)

some cars need a certain trye to cope with the load so they have to be the same across the whole car, not just axles

with the new space saver skinny things what would happen if oone of them blew out and you had an accident where you were going faster than the recommended 50 mph max and were 100 miles away from where you had the puncture?

if they don't have to pay out they won't as it'll cost them less to fork out for a assesor than it will to pay the cliam

dojj

iTrader: (3)

ne mroe thing, being possibly promotoed to fleet manager means i know about these things

at least for cars that are under my cover anyway

iansoutham

Sorry Tabetha, gotta disagree there. When you get your quote for an insurance policy, there is a section "normally tape-recorded" that states that failure to disclose or mis-disclose any information COULD lead to the insurance being invalidated.

As far as tyres go, changing brands does not invalidate insurance policies, as they are a wear-and-tear item, but changing tyre "usage" does. As the Mini has as standard a button behind the gear lever that is the self-test for the run-flat system, it would be hard to deny knowledge of the system.

As for standard exhaust systems, yes, I know personally of 2, including an old guy in a Magenta Saff that is in the RS Owner Club. He will be attending the Andover Spring Meet this year, as he does every year. COMPLETELY standard as well.

Here is a couple of pics of the car, just in case you miss it:





I will try and find the pic of the back end showing the standard exhaust as well. I think you would agree that even the engine is COMPLETELY standard, down to the original (superceeded version) tyres.

You would be surprised @ how many claims get thrown out for things such as yours comments above.

Indeed, I have in work ATM a BMW Coupe 330i which has the same tyres front and rear, when the rear tyres should be a different width. The customer threw the back end away and smacked it along a kerb. Insurance company have suspended his claim due to the tyres being "incorrectly rated and sized" for the car, possibly contributing to the accident. So, it IS possible to invalidate a claim from incorrect tyres.

RichardPON

I have heard that Mini, for example, use a different type of wheel where run flats are fitted.

Any truth to this?

Rhys

All new BMW's are sold with runflats! So when 80% of the owners change them for non run flats your saying they are running around with invalid insurance? I can see this as it cannot affect the car in any way possible. It just you can supposidly get home without having to change for the spare. (which come on its good on BMW's as the owners dont want to have to change a tyre) .

Width yeah maybe.... But type of tyres from run flats to non run flats i cannot see it.

iansoutham

Some manufacturers do as they have an internal tyre pressure monitor to measure PSI and illuminate a light on the dash accordingly. I am not too sure on the exact workings, (do not drive cars needing run-flats in the 1st place).

Rhys

iansoutham

Read its not internal pressure.. THe ECU calcuates the rolling radiaus of the tyre, and any slight devation in rolling width it highlists puncture. This is what read on BMW's, im sure AlexF can confirm.


Only reason i know is mate has it on car, and always wondered how it worked, as there was no sensors going to the alloy/wheel etc.

iansoutham

That is just it, the tyre supplier should inform the customer that they have run-flats in the 1st place.

Imagine the situation though, insured is driving their car and gets a blow-out @ 70mph on the outside lane of the motorway. If the insured had run-flats, they would be able to manouvre to the side of the road in safety, but with normal tyres, they had an accident with the armco (for arguments sake). Insurance company checks the tyres (as they do with EVERY claim to check tread depth) and finds a non-run-flat tyre (which directly attributed to the accident). If you were an insurance company, what would you do?

The problem with insurance companies nowadays is that the onus is on the insured to do everything, same as traffic law.

iansoutham

It most likely is that on BMW (as I say, I do not know the systems well enough), but I have also seen the types where there is a band round the inside of the rim (narrowest point) which sends a signal to a transceiver box mounted elsewhere. I CANNOT confirm whether that is pressure (only assuming), again, it may be as you say with that method as well.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the tyre pressures have an internal thing banded to the rim
this sends a signal to thesensor mounted somewhere onthe car whic then tells you how much pressure there is in the tyres and if one falls below a certain level it beeps

they've got them on the new seat leons we've got so it's not just top line motors

on the other hand, run flats are a total different kettle of potatoes

XRdodgybird

So we is non-the wiser really then...

I am gonna ring my insurance company tomorrow... my BMW has got a run-flat indicator on the centre consol... not overly sure that the tyres on the car are runflats though.

AlexF

On a bmw/mini...

There are two systems, RDC and RDW. (but which one is which I can't remember off-hand lol)

If the valve is metal bodied then inside the wheel is a sensor which transmits pressure.

If not its the good old system of looking for changes in wheel diameter through wheel speed. Think circumference getting smaller as a tyre deflates.


Run-flats can be repaired, but usually they need to be sent off rather than done at your average tyre bay.

As to the insurance question, I'm not sure you can claim that changing brand of tyre is something that invalidates your insurance, so long as the tyres are replaced with those of the correct size and speed rating. After all any wheel can be fitted with Run-Flat tyres and vise versa....

Alex

AlexF

Sarah,

look on your tyre's sidewall for the letters RSC, which stands for Runflat System Componant... you'll know if they are runfalts or not for sure then.


Alex

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

Have a look on the sidewall of the tyre it'll say weither it's a runflat or not

RickyLee53

Stepdad got a puncture in his merc, he only knew cause it said so on the dash. I would see changing tyres to non runflats could cause problems if the insurers want to be arsy about it. However in some cases it would pass without doubt.

However, imagine say on an Evo, they come with cut slicks as standard, if you replaced them for budgets, surely they wouldn't do you for this.

Also brakes, I can't even remember what PADs if i did, tell them what pads my evo had in it.
I said it has 6 pot AP's though, i wonder now there different if they would kick up a fuss?

S1rst

Tricky one this. The non run flat tyres would still be fit for purpose, but having said that, if you get a blow out with them on, then maybe the accident could have been prevented.

At the end of the day its a saftey feature to prevent accidents or loss of control at least. But is it actually 'classed' as a safety feature or a convenience type-thing to get you home when you get a puncture?

Ive known insurance companies to void payouts for injury claims if the airbags been removed, which is a saftey feature. Would they pay out if the ABS was not working and you locked up and hit someone?

Same principles really.

Edit: check the owners handbook and see if it says 'we reccommend that you replace tyres with run-flats' or anything like that. Look for the words 'reccommend' or 'must'.

S1rst

I would have thought they could void the insurance for that due to it being a modification, even though its actually making the car safer.

tabetha

Ian southam so you know a man who does not actually drive his car and has spent thousands making it as good as new, you might not believe this, but most people actually drive thier cars, and last time I checked ford did not do a exhaust system for a cossie.
As to undeclared mods, I was speaking last year with an UNDERWRITER, who probably knows even more than dojji about car unsurance(though I am sure dojji will disagree), ABOUT WHAT exactly CONSTITUTED modification, and she said common sense in law plays a part, in that if you cannot get a part whatever that part is then a nearest equivalent is totally accetable.
You forgot to tell me where I can find oe spec tyres by the way DUNLOP D40's please.
She also told me that to decline a payout it must be shown that a replacement part was not a equivalent but did actually increase performance of contribute towards the accident.
DON'T change your oil, as ford put it in there as this would be a modification, on and the wiper blades, oh and the valve cores, when you have new tyres fitted, oh and don't put stickers on it, or a different stereo, or a air freshener.
My own mondeo was declined insuarance as the person on the end of the phone considerd it modified, as I had rebuilt the engine, using non ford parts, complaining a lot I was put through to the underwriter, whom I now know as a very good and useful friend, and the car was accepted as std as I had used the equivalent bits just a differnt make, even down to the wheels which were smiths max and not ford ones, after pricing up the smiths compared to the fords alloys(which were stolen), they again said that is fine, as they are no more valuable, maybe she did not know what she was on about, maybe that is why insurance companies are making a loss ?
I know someone who got out of his car years ago left it running whilst chatting to his mate on the other side of the road, someone jumped in drove off, car torched later, he got paid out, as I put the cheque in my account for him as he did not have account, he was paid Ł6700, personally I dont think he should have been, how do I know it's true and accurate, because I was the one who he was talking to, that was heavily modded, and yes you could tell even after torching, and no he had not declared the mods.
So you know of two cars with a std exhaust, gues how many owners I could find that could not OBTAIN ONE ?, you cannot compare so person showing a car to your average joe in the street using a car, is this exhaust std one or is it a replacement, BECAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE IT MODIFIED WOULDN'T IT?????????????
tabetha

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

No they don't!!!

MAD EVO 4

I must tell my insurance company that im now running fully treaded tyres on my evo

XRdodgybird

Have just spoken to Adrian Flux.... they have confirmed to me that as long as I replace the tyres on the car with a tyre which is suitable for it, ie speed rating, performance, etc... there is no need to replace it with run flats.

I am gonna check this when I get my new documents through with the insurance company I am with this time to be on the safe side... but I feel a little better now.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

XRdodgybird
as long as you get it in writing then you are covered

tabetha
i'm sure the underwriter knows what he's underwriting, but he's only one bloke who's talking from his point of view
i deal with stuff for the company and we have fairly strict guidelines we need to follow such as replacement tyres need to be reinforced and the lease company won't allow anything other than the makes it has stipulated to go on, and if they haven't got them they haven't got them and the motor goes off the road

you can argue the toss over loads of things but just because it makes sense to you or i doesn't mean it's not construed as a modification by the insurers

wear and tear items should be replaced with like for like but your engine rebuild using non ford parts is a simple "mod" because you can't use non standard parts to make a standard engine, and claiming that using different pistons because you've bored the engine out simply impliys that you have modified the engine from ford specs to the guy at the other end of the phone

AlexF

get that in writting!

bud-weis

run flats suck on minis!!

noisy and too damn hard!

the missus is defo not having them again!

Daviet

id probably tell them tbh just incase and for piece of mind really.
i know some folk are saying your allowed to change manufactures etc but thats surely a bit different from run flats?
what happens if there on motorway and have a blow out and cut across the traffic and wipe out lots of cars?this could have been avoided if the had left the run flats on??

AlexF

With run flats it would be much less likly - but they do not over rule the laws of physics!!!

People seem to think they stop every single problem accociated with tyre failure... not quite.

They are simply much much better than standard tyres.

Alex

AlexF

LOL they ain't that bad.

Alex

Daviet

yip i didnt say it would stop it completly but a woman doing 70 on say a wet motorway and has a puncture there more likely to vere across a road where as the run flat will more or less keep you in a straight line or easier to control anyway.and surely thats the way an insurance company will look at it.

AlexF

True, but in a similar accident without the puncture, just say a loss of control, a brand new specifically designed wet weather tyre would have an advantage.

Insurance covers the result of the accident, not the cause.

Alex

XRdodgybird

Excuse me what the hell does being a woman have anything to do with it????

I know a few MEN who have had a blow out on a motorway and ended up spinning around in the motorway and ending up the wrong way in the central reservation....