MalteseFalcon

What about these nikasil liners that everyone is talking about? Where you buy it from? how much? and how the process is made? apriciate all the help. Thanks.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The walls of the block are completely removed (so can be done to a cracked / over-bored "scrap" block that no-one else would want ), and steel liners pressed in. The Nikasil is a friction reducing coating process. The reason for doing it is strength and resistance to cylinder pressures that would otherwise crack the standard block.

MalteseFalcon

as always your help is very much apprciated Mike and it was the first time that a saw these liners fixed to block. How much boost they can take?

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

is Nikasil liners Perfect Bores own product, hence why only they can do them?

NEEDFORSPEED

what sort of money are the liners and then to fit? are there many people that can fit them?

xr4x4rs

iTrader: (5)

going rate i think is around £1500 supply and fit

Bomber

I have Nikasil liners in my ZVH. The water way blew when mapping on the original spec engine (due to a casting defect in the block - which was a NEW Ford item), so it was sent off for the machining and liners. Hopefully this will create a good strong bottom end capable of some serious boost.

You will also need to use specific piston rings if you have a linered block - you should be advised this when you order your liners.

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

These have been used for years haven't thay

Iv heard the Nicasil can come away from the bore.. is this true?

Bomber

I've heard of production model cars fitted with liners to have some batch problems. But I have heard of none that have be retro-fitted having problems.

Bomber

PS: If anything, it would be the fitting/machining that would cause failures.

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

bmw had problems with nikasil on production cars, the rs200 bdt uses nikasil liners

stage 3 muppet

a lot of old motorcross 2 stroke bikes ran nikasel liners if i remember the kx 250 was one of these i did hear problems with the liner coating wearing away but not sure about new generation of liners tho

just a qiuck question though do you reqiure the rubber o rings that sit at bottom of the liner like the liners fitted to r5 gt turbo,s and pug 205 gti,s etc for sealing
and also can std ybo 611 gaskets fit or is it liner reccommended jobbie
looking to liner an old block ive cracked down two of the bores(straight to waterway)
but with my past experience on before mentioned cars am reluctant as i know they can be a pain unless done properly

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

If you have them done properly, then there are no issues. These particular liners are done to the same tried and tested spec and style as the Ford works cars (which run 30psi at 2500, 42psi ay 3000 (500lb ft of torque at this rpm point !), 37psi at 3500, 29psi at 4000, 25psi at 4500, 20psi at 5000, 16psi at 5500, 13psi at 6000, 11psi at 6500, 9psi at 7000 and 7psi at 7500 and all this on a 10.2:1 compression (albeit with high octane race fuel). So I think you could safely say they are strong enough!

90.8mm bore + machining (only) for 10 stud = £1400ish (customer supplied block) + delivery
93mm + machining (only) for 10 stud = £1600ish (customer supplied block) + delivery

The only reason for Rod's failure was down to the way Perfect Bore did his liners. I understand from Mark's comments on that post that they have since moved away from this style of fitment for Rod's new engine and are using the same Ford works spec / style as I have posted pictures of above. Perfect Bore supply the 93mm liners and Mountune supply the 90.8 ones (which are made in Italy). Perfect Bore / Mountune have completely perfected the Nikasil coating process and as far as I am aware, there have been no issues with the coating process (touch wood!).

The crucial point is the machining and fitting of the liners, which is carried for Harvey by the same people who do the works blocks. The block is heated, the liners frozen and then very quickly pressed into place as an interference fit . So the machining has to be absolutely 100% perfect...

MalteseFalcon

what type of gaskit will be used then?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The whole point of doing these, is so that they can take massive cylinder pressures, so if you go and fit a standard gasket on, you're completely defeating the object . Obviously they are designed to run with the WRC multi-layer gasket.

MalteseFalcon

yes defenitly, I like to use the wrc head type gaskit but over here in Malta are doing a different type of gaskit with the rings being machined in the block. These are not like wire wrung but a different type of rings which can take massive boost. these are manifucatured in Italy by Nava linea. I will try to make a pic as well. Quarter mile fans over here are all using these type of gaskit and prooved to be very effective.

manoj

iTrader: (4)

Okey, my understanding is that nikasil liners are necessary when your block \ bores are excessively worn..
Now this may sound like a stupid question, but I’ll ask anyway..
Would you recommend having liners installed to a new block that would be build for 500bhp.. or are nikasil liners only required if your current block is due for rebuild..?
My guess is that it’s worth doing this at the start of the build, thus making the bottom end bullet proof from day1.. or is it not worth it at this level of tune..??

thanks,
Manoj

- Sim -

but there are also steel liners on the market or not?

nikasil is just a coating, which was developed by Mahle years ago, if I am right.

aren't steel liners much cheaper and also quite healthy? Perhaps not that perfect for a 600 hp engine, but for a "smaller" one these should suit if you have a block on 2nd bore.... or?

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

UP

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Interesting topic

Rod-Tarry

We used F1 very thin wall liners so that the integrity of the Block was not compromised it was an error as the Block simply warped it appears a F1 liners in the YB dont work .
Mike is correct we have now gone back to the type of liner Mike has shown it allows better cooling which will stop the rear of the block warping.
We tried to move things on & failed.
However i will add we were using a '99' block which we now know is not as strong as earlier ones & we are now using a heat-cycled block not a new one. Development is an expensive game.

- Sim -

yes and no

if you use the right pistons and rings, normally not, if it wears, the cylinder will fail....

15D

Racing 2 strokes have ben using Nikasil bores since God was a lad.

Dal_

iTrader: (2)

The 1.7 Ford / Yamaha Puma lump uses Nikasil linings as well.
Just got to be religious with the oil checking / changing as they are succeptable to failure if starved of the correct grade oil (or no oil at all obviously)

Si B

iTrader: (59)

Up for this point / question...

I have a 200 block on standard bore with one liner in it. Needs a rebore on no 4 now as well due to melted piston, wondered if it would be worth more to liner the lot or the just the melted one to keep it at standard bore, or just get it bored to .25 oversize (1 liner and 3 normal bores, all at .25 oversize)

Anyone know?

Si