FAO Mike Rainbird - I have something of yours
19-04-2007, 08:34 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Jay,
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners
.
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners
. Never mind eh, you might even be able to add a bit more boost......... That'll shut a few people up! 
19-04-2007, 08:37 AM
#125
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Jay,
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners.
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners
.you may have already answered this one, but what actually caused the crack, do you know? heat?
19-04-2007, 08:51 AM
#127
Originally Posted by Franco
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Jay,
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners.
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners
. Never mind eh, you might even be able to add a bit more boost......... That'll shut a few people up! I'd rather run it at the boost I am comfortable with (31psi), as each 1psi = another 20+bhp and similar torque, so anymore power would cause me clutch issues meaning even more money being spent
.
Originally Posted by GARETH T
i hope your not paying mountune money? 
. Obviously Harvey will sort out the labour aspect, but still an additional mount I had not budgeted for .
Originally Posted by CossieRich
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Jay,
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners.
It arrived Tuesday evening, and is the worse case scenario (crack 35mm long in No.2 liner). So will be off the road for at least 6 weeks, as the block has to go to Perfect Bore for Nikasil liners
.you may have already answered this one, but what actually caused the crack, do you know? heat?
Originally Posted by L8 ECU
What thickness liners did use/specify? 
19-04-2007, 08:56 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I had nothing to do with this aspect of my engine, so I do not have any idea.
Is it down to mechanical failure, and ¨these things fail¨ scenerio?
19-04-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Basically the normal steel liners were too weak at this bore size.
I had nothing to do with this aspect of my engine, so I do not have any idea.
Originally Posted by L8 ECU
What thickness liners did use/specify?
Maybe a thicker liner is a cheaper way forward?
http://www.westwoodtrading.co.uk/sizedliners.asp
19-04-2007, 09:51 AM
#132
If I wanted to have the exact same liners put back in, then it would be done at no cost what-so-ever to me, but then it will obviously break again .
The only aspect I am paying for is the Nikasil liners (which I would have had to pay for, if I had had these done in the first place
). I can't see any tuner giving Nikasil liners away for free .
I am in no way out of pocket any more than I would have been if the Nikail liners had been fitted in the first place, as Harvey is standing by his build, and paying all labour charges to strip the engine and then rebuild it and reinstall it with the new Nikasil liners. It's just that Nikasil liners are so fucking expensive.
. The only aspect I am paying for is the Nikasil liners (which I would have had to pay for, if I had had these done in the first place
). I can't see any tuner giving Nikasil liners away for free .I am in no way out of pocket any more than I would have been if the Nikail liners had been fitted in the first place, as Harvey is standing by his build, and paying all labour charges to strip the engine and then rebuild it and reinstall it with the new Nikasil liners. It's just that Nikasil liners are so fucking expensive
.
19-04-2007, 09:51 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
Interesting point re: above......
Don't post the dyno print though. The only people who really want to see it are those who wish to pick holes no doubt.......
Don't post the dyno print though. The only people who really want to see it are those who wish to pick holes no doubt.......
19-04-2007, 09:53 AM
#134
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Hey Mike,
sorry to head that liner problem, but looking forward to get this fixed, even if some money ll go down the street
Regarding the dyno specs:
WHY THE HELL IS THIS SO IMPORTANT for you guys?
It's just numbers, that just give a tendency and no real power issues.
See it all in a car and compare the whole car to another one on a track - that gives more idea of an engine or car in my eyes.
And if he don't want to post it - where s the problem?
All guys that post must live with jealous comments and bla bla talking.
Just my 10 cents
sorry to head that liner problem, but looking forward to get this fixed, even if some money ll go down the street
Regarding the dyno specs:
WHY THE HELL IS THIS SO IMPORTANT for you guys?
It's just numbers, that just give a tendency and no real power issues.
See it all in a car and compare the whole car to another one on a track - that gives more idea of an engine or car in my eyes.
And if he don't want to post it - where s the problem?
All guys that post must live with jealous comments and bla bla talking.
Just my 10 cents
19-04-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
WHY THE HELL IS THIS SO IMPORTANT for you guys?
Its exactly for the reasons Pon's said!
19-04-2007, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
If I wanted to have the exact same liners put back in, then it would be done at no cost what-so-ever to me, but then it will obviously break again .
The only aspect I am paying for is the Nikasil liners (which I would have had to pay for, if I had had these done in the first place). I can't see any tuner giving Nikasil liners away for free .
I am in no way out of pocket any more than I would have been if the Nikail liners had been fitted in the first place, as Harvey is standing by his build, and paying all labour charges to strip the engine and then rebuild it and reinstall it with the new Nikasil liners. It's just that Nikasil liners are so fucking expensive.
. The only aspect I am paying for is the Nikasil liners (which I would have had to pay for, if I had had these done in the first place
). I can't see any tuner giving Nikasil liners away for free .I am in no way out of pocket any more than I would have been if the Nikail liners had been fitted in the first place, as Harvey is standing by his build, and paying all labour charges to strip the engine and then rebuild it and reinstall it with the new Nikasil liners. It's just that Nikasil liners are so fucking expensive
.
I bet you can't wait until it's finished.
19-04-2007, 10:10 AM
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Gareth - undoubtedly you're the exception, but I can see exactly why I wouldn't.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
19-04-2007, 10:19 AM
#144
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
hows about both of you fuck off,,, ive never slagged off anyone car/dyno plot off
*well personal cars anyway*
*well personal cars anyway*
I am writing this slowly hoping you can KEEP UP!
19-04-2007, 10:30 AM
#147
Given the spec of the engine, I hardly see it as me being tight fisted . My choice of inlet system alone cost me a cheap 2wd Cosworth . I wasn't told I would need Nikasil liners until the steel ones were found wanting .
See, I've been found guilty by trial by internet already for doing it on the "cheap" (if ONLY that were true ), and I haven't even posted up the dyno-plot . Is there any wonder about my reticence .
Doug,
I haven't got an accurate reading at 5250, only at 5010 or 5440. I could obviously draw a line and tell you within a few bhp what it made at that point, but it wouldn't be 100% accurate, so I won't.
It made 311.1 lb.ft at 8500 if that helps (only 3500rpm past it's peak) ?
Also, my car is physically incapable of doing 200mph even with 1,000,000bhp, as I altered another crucial aspect to suit ME. Oh well, never mind .
. My choice of inlet system alone cost me a cheap 2wd Cosworth . I wasn't told I would need Nikasil liners until the steel ones were found wanting . See, I've been found guilty by trial by internet already for doing it on the "cheap"
(if ONLY that were true ), and I haven't even posted up the dyno-plot . Is there any wonder about my reticence .Doug,
I haven't got an accurate reading at 5250, only at 5010 or 5440
. I could obviously draw a line and tell you within a few bhp what it made at that point, but it wouldn't be 100% accurate, so I won't.It made 311.1 lb.ft at 8500 if that helps (only 3500rpm past it's peak)
?Also, my car is physically incapable of doing 200mph even with 1,000,000bhp, as I altered another crucial aspect to suit ME
. Oh well, never mind .
19-04-2007, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also, my car is physically incapable of doing 200mph even with 1,000,000bhp, as I altered another crucial aspect to suit ME
4.2: 1 final drive gearing......................or 3.9: 1 ?
19-04-2007, 10:41 AM
#150
Originally Posted by L8 ECU
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also, my car is physically incapable of doing 200mph even with 1,000,000bhp, as I altered another crucial aspect to suit ME
4.2: 1 final drive gearing......................or 3.9: 1 ? 99.9% of me spec is actually listed on page 1 of my resto thread
.
19-04-2007, 11:19 AM
#151
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Originally Posted by L8 ECU
Mike, as a compromise AND to stop this going to 11 pages, why not just tell us what the engine made at 5,250 RPM
19-04-2007, 11:59 AM
#153
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Hi all Re liner jobs.
I have been manufacturing and fitting cylinder liners for 17 years now mainly on motorcycles but I have done some car blocks. We also Nickasill around 15 cylinder per week.
The reason that most people fit a liner to a block is to bring is back to std size IE it has been bored to max over size and then so they have it Re- lined. Now this is fine for most blocks.
But if you understand how the block is made you will under stand that fitting liners will weaken the block.
The block is cast with water jackets around the bore this is what makes up the bore if you get what I mean, now this area is not perfectly round as it is cast and also made thinner in parts to aid cooling.
So if you cut a block in half you will find different wall thickness. Now to fit a cylinder liner you need to bore out the block to take the new sleeve, in some cases you will brake though the water jacket. The liner is only around 2mm-wall thickness so you can see that with no support it will crack or split under boost.
Now I am just in the process of sorting my own block out and had a chat with Perfect bore yesterday. Now my understanding of the Nickasil liners was that they bored the block out and took the whole water jacket out and made some new very thick liners and fitted them as a wet liner IE the outer of the sleeve is the water jacket, and the cylinder head held then down in place.
Now having spoke to perfect bore they dont do this they use a cylinder sleeve with 1.5mm wall thickness. I can not see the benefit in this as you have same problems with a weak block.
Nickasil is only 0.20mm thick and is a coating applied to the surface usually on alloy but can be applied to steel, it does not make the liner any stronger.
That is my take on it, if any one else know different please post your info.
I have been manufacturing and fitting cylinder liners for 17 years now mainly on motorcycles but I have done some car blocks. We also Nickasill around 15 cylinder per week.
The reason that most people fit a liner to a block is to bring is back to std size IE it has been bored to max over size and then so they have it Re- lined. Now this is fine for most blocks.
But if you understand how the block is made you will under stand that fitting liners will weaken the block.
The block is cast with water jackets around the bore this is what makes up the bore if you get what I mean, now this area is not perfectly round as it is cast and also made thinner in parts to aid cooling.
So if you cut a block in half you will find different wall thickness. Now to fit a cylinder liner you need to bore out the block to take the new sleeve, in some cases you will brake though the water jacket. The liner is only around 2mm-wall thickness so you can see that with no support it will crack or split under boost.
Now I am just in the process of sorting my own block out and had a chat with Perfect bore yesterday. Now my understanding of the Nickasil liners was that they bored the block out and took the whole water jacket out and made some new very thick liners and fitted them as a wet liner IE the outer of the sleeve is the water jacket, and the cylinder head held then down in place.
Now having spoke to perfect bore they dont do this they use a cylinder sleeve with 1.5mm wall thickness. I can not see the benefit in this as you have same problems with a weak block.
Nickasil is only 0.20mm thick and is a coating applied to the surface usually on alloy but can be applied to steel, it does not make the liner any stronger.
That is my take on it, if any one else know different please post your info.
19-04-2007, 12:10 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by RichardPON
Gareth - undoubtedly you're the exception, but I can see exactly why I wouldn't.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
Mike
Oh i also like other would like to see the graph, not that i can really understand it but would be good when looking at others, and having done a resto thread it would in a way finish it of, but it is your car and your graph so your desicion at the end of the day
Mike
19-04-2007, 12:15 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by Captain Mike
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Gareth - undoubtedly you're the exception, but I can see exactly why I wouldn't.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
Mike
Oh i also like other would like to see the graph, not that i can really understand it but would be good when looking at others, and having done a resto thread it would in a way finish it of, but it is your car and your graph so your desicion at the end of the day
Mike
Would love to see the graph and I can't understand why posting it is such a big problem. Will he (or Harvey) cry or something if someone try to pick holes in it. I am actually quite surprised as I thought Mike was more thick skinned than that!
19-04-2007, 12:25 PM
#157
Originally Posted by L8 ECU
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
how do Nikasil liners wear compared to a normal block?
You have to use a diamond tool just to hone them properly, they are tremendously durable.
http://www.bmwworld.com/engines/nikasil.htm
Nikasil was very popular in the 1990s. It was used by companies such as BMW, Ferrari,Honda and Jaguar Cars in their new engine families. However, the sulfur found in much of the world's low quality gasoline caused the Nikasil cylinders used by BMW to break down over time, causing costly engine failures. Eventually, the product was abandoned after BMW was forced to replace a number of M60 V8 engines in the USA and the UK. Nikasil or similar coatings under other trademarks are still widely used in racing engines where low quality gasoline isn't a problem, this include F1, ChampCar and NASCAR engines.
Engines using Nikasil include:
Porsche 912 engine ( engine in 917 car, not to be confused with the Porsche 912 car )
Porsche 911 1973+ (excluding some 1975-1978 911S)
BMW M60 V8
BMW M52 I6
Jaguar AJ-V8
Maserati Biturbo 2.0 V6 Engines
Ferrari F50 V12
Honda XR650R
Moto Guzzi 850 T3 and derived engines
BMW R80GS, as measure to reduce weight over cast-iron lined cylinders
Lambretta TS1
Honda H-series
Citroën Visa twin
Citroën GS birotor wankel engine made by Comotor
19-04-2007, 12:28 PM
#158
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Originally Posted by Captain Mike
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Gareth - undoubtedly you're the exception, but I can see exactly why I wouldn't.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
In the world of Cosworth tuning, accoording to some, it's never good enough to be happy with what you have. Apparently you also have to put it through trial by internet, so some straight line merchant can compare and be proud of the fact that their engine made 30 more bhp at the same boost, even though the specs are completely different.
Of course, since Mike hasn't done 200mph, I don't know why he hasn't killed himself in shame already.
19-04-2007, 12:43 PM
#159
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So you are inadvertently talking about the only person to officially hit 200mph which is Rod
Or maybe i am reading between the lines to much and i'll
Mike
Or maybe i am reading between the lines to much and i'll
Mike
19-04-2007, 01:20 PM
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Don't bother posting the graph.
What ever it says or reads into, it will not be good enough.
Even if you spend more on one modification than most people on here have on their complete car, it would still not be enough.
If you try to do something for yourself, it will be wrong.
If you try something new or different it will be wrong.
(I should know, you've been telling me for years )
If you are happy with it, let it be.
I spent shed loads of cash on mine, and one barely makes over 300bhp, but comparitively more torque - I don't give a toss what others say. It's mine, and it's been built for how I want it.
What ever it says or reads into, it will not be good enough.
Even if you spend more on one modification than most people on here have on their complete car, it would still not be enough.
If you try to do something for yourself, it will be wrong.
If you try something new or different it will be wrong.
(I should know, you've been telling me for years
)If you are happy with it, let it be.
I spent shed loads of cash on mine, and one barely makes over 300bhp, but comparitively more torque - I don't give a toss what others say. It's mine, and it's been built for how I want it.